dangerous amateur
Hazard to Others
Posts: 144
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Loocking for some OTC Emulsifier for AN/Paraffine/Mineral oil ect. sytems
Hi guys,
I wanted to experiment with such emulsions for some time, but all formulas I could find ask for some polymeric emulsifiers I cant get simply OTC.
Is there any common product that can be "abused" in its place and does the job in a usable way?
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2692
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
Disinfecting wipes such as those branded Lysol® generally use a solution of quaternary ammoniums in water with a few fragrance agents and not much
else. If you squeeze out the liquid, you may be able to extract the PTC, or use it as-is, hoping the fragrance agents don't cause an issue. Heating in
vaccuum above 100 C for a few hours should get rid of volatiles.
Although, when fucking around with ammonium nitrate and oil, maybe it's best not to take chances...
[Edited on 28-4-2017 by clearly_not_atara]
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
Will the emulsifying ability of soaps/detergents/cleaners (anionic, cationic or non-ionic) be effective into anhydrous media like AN/Mineral oil?
I highly doubt about it...usually you need water...then you are playing with "emulsion slurries"...
If it is the case then normally any soap will do...because to acheive emulsion you only need a very little amount of soap...the amount is determined
by the critical micellar/micelle concentration.
You may also need to increase viscosity of the media to get a gellous stuf with agar-agar, alginate/Ca(2+) couple, painted wall paper glue
(alkyl-hydroxy-cellulose or alkyl-hydroxy-cellulose acetate)...
[Edited on 28-4-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
MineMan
National Hazard
Posts: 998
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
use soap for the emulsifier and red gaur gum for the thickener. some industry emulsions also have a small amount of nitric acid mixed in and
hexamine..
Dont forget the microabaloons!
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Cheat...
Use some of the NH4NO3, water & starch.
Attachment: NHNO3.gells.HEx.US2548693.pdf (396kB)
This file has been downloaded 394 times
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
dangerous amateur
Hazard to Others
Posts: 144
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You probably overlooked that this cheat mixture is sensitized by 20% nitroglycerine
What would destroy the simplicity of the concept.
Thickener is no problem, guar gum is easy to get.
But I need to have an emulsion first, thats what maked the whole stuff so interesting.
Real emulsions can have 5000m/s at densities much greater than typical ANFO.
This is really interesting stuff. I wonder why it was never covered here, it must be more difficult as it seems.
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2692
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  | Will the emulsifying ability of soaps/detergents/cleaners (anionic, cationic or non-ionic) be effective into anhydrous media like AN/Mineral oil?
I highly doubt about it...usually you need water... |
The canister I have says the active ingredient is 0.26% alkyl (50% C14 40% C12 10% C16) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides, aka benzalkonium
chlorides. As these are quite common in commercial PTC I'm pretty sure they don't need water to work.
I don't know what is used to emulsify ANFO, but what I recommended is not "just soap".
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara | | Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone | Will the emulsifying ability of soaps/detergents/cleaners (anionic, cationic or non-ionic) be effective into anhydrous media like AN/Mineral oil?
I highly doubt about it...usually you need water... |
The canister I have says the active ingredient is 0.26% alkyl (50% C14 40% C12 10% C16) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides, aka benzalkonium
chlorides. As these are quite common in commercial PTC I'm pretty sure they don't need water to work.
I don't know what is used to emulsify ANFO, but what I recommended is not "just soap". |
The water is included into the 99,74% remaining ingredients  ...
The active ingredient is 0,26% quaternay ammonium salt what is part of the group of cationic soaps .
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
DrP
National Hazard
Posts: 625
Registered: 28-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: exothermic
|
|
What about plain old washing up liquid? That usually has sodium dodecyl sulphate in it... it's emulsifying properties are why it is used as a
soap/dishwashing liquid.
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Yes, did not read the fine print there.
Is Calcium stearate common enough?
https://www.google.com/patents/US3161551
Attachment: US3161551.pdf (350kB)
This file has been downloaded 398 times
If not, quick lime and stearic acid certainly are available. Or you could go for a palmitate, etc. depending on what materials you might have access
to.
Manufacture of metal soaps
US 2890232 A
Attachment: US2890232.pdf (432kB)
This file has been downloaded 331 times
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1335
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: cool.gif
|
|
"Dangerous",
exist people, I known amateurs, which spend 1000 hours at developing homemade emulsion. They had all, what is possible get still before 10 years.
Very experienced people. However, Without succesfull. If you need some extra plastic on water base, you can study http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=4076 Incredible properties..... ...LL
[Edited on 9-5-2017 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
