Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Copper Dichloroisocyanurate Complex Synthesis and Analogs.
Hello Everyone!
Recently I attempted the experiment of mixing Copper Sulfate, and NaDCC. The results were amazing with the pictures linked below. In case you guys are
looking for a reference link:
http://www.theamateurchemist.com/synthesis-of-copper-cyanura...
If you wanna stay on SM http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=29474
and Woelen's http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/raw_material...
So after a successful synthesis I figured a cool thing to do with it was to show Chemiluminscene, and I tried using topical Hydrogen Peroxide. While
it seemed to react fast enough, it did NOT produce the red light. I can only assume it is because the concentration was too low.
My additional question is, I tried making the Nickel analog outlined in US3055889 it reads:
"A solution of 0.039 mole of potassium dichlorocyanu
rate in 200 milliliters of water was mixed with 25 milli
liters of water containing 0.0195 moles of nickel chloride.
The precipitate, very close to an Opaline Green color"
I have tried similar, by mixing a saturated solution of both, and I can not seem to get the reaction to go forward! Furthermore, in the paper it
specifically points out that the ratios are not important "The reactant ratios are not critical since the complex
will form until the reactant present in lesser stoichiometric
amount is consumed."
Can anyone help with any information of what I should do to move forward?
 
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6220
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organised
|
|
This is an incomplete project of mine from two years ago.
I also had a student play with it at one point.
From off the top of my head...
I made a small amount of a copper potassium dichloroiscyanurate complex. This looked almost identical to the sodium variety.
It was evident that complexes were forming with some other cations: I recall Co, Ni. There were others as well. I have read somewhere (a paper posted
on this site) that la and Pb also generate complexes.
One of the many tings I would like to get back to.
I found that stoichiometry is useful for getting the best results.
|
|
|
myristicinaldehyde
Hazard to Others
Posts: 166
Registered: 23-4-2016
Location: .͐͌ ͛҉̻̫̰̻̖E̮ͮ̐́̚ ̢̗̅̉ͩ͂̒̌.̯̻̺̯̀̎͂̄ͩ̚
Member Is Offline
Mood: сорок пять
|
|
I tried iron once- using a solution of iron(iii). The color intensified, to an impressive red but no precipitate.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
US3055889
This paper discusses everything you talked about. The Pb, and Ni salts. If I remember right, the paper also discusses the spectator ions and that they
were not important to the reaction.
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  | This is an incomplete project of mine from two years ago.
I also had a student play with it at one point.
From off the top of my head...
I made a small amount of a copper potassium dichloroiscyanurate complex. This looked almost identical to the sodium variety.
It was evident that complexes were forming with some other cations: I recall Co, Ni. There were others as well. I have read somewhere (a paper posted
on this site) that la and Pb also generate complexes.
One of the many tings I would like to get back to.
I found that stoichiometry is useful for getting the best results. |
|
|
|
DFliyerz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 241
Registered: 22-12-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Maybe it's just me, but when I made this compound it smelled awful. Even looking at it makes me think of the smell...
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by DFliyerz | | Maybe it's just me, but when I made this compound it smelled awful. Even looking at it makes me think of the smell... |
Smelled like Pool Tablets to me, like lots and lots of chlorine.
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4508
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
Yeah, and I noticed upon attempting to use it as a watercolor pigment that it will bleach the bristles of a paintbrush upon very short exposure! It's
also not lightfast at all- after being painted onto a paper or canvas, the brilliant color fades to a dull grayish purple within the month. Still, it
is a very nice compound to look at in bulk form.
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I think it may dull in vibrance due to light. It appears since storing, my sample has gotten much, much less purple.
| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | Yeah, and I noticed upon attempting to use it as a watercolor pigment that it will bleach the bristles of a paintbrush upon very short exposure! It's
also not lightfast at all- after being painted onto a paper or canvas, the brilliant color fades to a dull grayish purple within the month. Still, it
is a very nice compound to look at in bulk form. |
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7976
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
The instability does not surprise me. Even Na-DCCA is not that stable. Open a bottle of that stuff and you smell its pungent odour. This is due to
decomposition and production of chlorine and/or chloramine. When kept in a dry tighly sealed container, the Na-DCCA remains good for a very long time,
but in contact with air it quickly deteriorates. The copper compound most likely is less stable. When I made it, I dod not keep it around for long. On
storage it may produce gaseous compounds, which may lead to pressure buildup and rupture of its container. If you keep it around, be careful with
that. I'm not saying that it does no, but it might do so. More research is needed, or someone else needs to jump in who knows already.
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks Woelen,
I'll upload some pictures to show a decomposition over time. I doubt much will change if I keep it inside, in a cool area. I still have quite a bit of
NaDCC, and I'll try to use it up if I can figure out how to get it to react with other things. I have tried for some time to get it to react with
Nickle, and it refuses to.
| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | | The instability does not surprise me. Even Na-DCCA is not that stable. Open a bottle of that stuff and you smell its pungent odour. This is due to
decomposition and production of chlorine and/or chloramine. When kept in a dry tighly sealed container, the Na-DCCA remains good for a very long time,
but in contact with air it quickly deteriorates. The copper compound most likely is less stable. When I made it, I dod not keep it around for long. On
storage it may produce gaseous compounds, which may lead to pressure buildup and rupture of its container. If you keep it around, be careful with
that. I'm not saying that it does no, but it might do so. More research is needed, or someone else needs to jump in who knows already.
|
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
UPDATE: I have re-run the experiment using Iron Sulfate, and while the product is impure, I may be able to isolate the iron analog.
I may have found a flaw in my previous run with the Nickle compound, I used a solution that had been made for crystallization a LONG time ago, doubt
that there is any actual change to the compound, but perhaps it made the experiment fail. I will re-preform the experiment tomorrow with updates,
|
|
|
Velzee
Hazard to Others
Posts: 379
Registered: 19-8-2015
Location: New York
Member Is Offline
Mood: Taking it easy
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Fidelmios | UPDATE: I have re-run the experiment using Iron Sulfate, and while the product is impure, I may be able to isolate the iron analog.
I may have found a flaw in my previous run with the Nickle compound, I used a solution that had been made for crystallization a LONG time ago, doubt
that there is any actual change to the compound, but perhaps it made the experiment fail. I will re-preform the experiment tomorrow with updates,
|
I look forward to the results!
Check out the ScienceMadness Wiki: http://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Main_Page
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
—Arthur Schopenhauer
"¡Vivá Cristo Rey!"
—Saint José Sánchez del Río |
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Velzee | | Quote: Originally posted by Fidelmios | UPDATE: I have re-run the experiment using Iron Sulfate, and while the product is impure, I may be able to isolate the iron analog.
I may have found a flaw in my previous run with the Nickle compound, I used a solution that had been made for crystallization a LONG time ago, doubt
that there is any actual change to the compound, but perhaps it made the experiment fail. I will re-preform the experiment tomorrow with updates,
|
I look forward to the results! |
Update 2: stored some copper cyanurate complex under nickel chloride and some under air in a dram vial. The dram vial seems to be leaking a small
amount of chlorine gas under assumed decomposition. The wetted complex, stored under the nickel cimpound has not changed color but a yellow layer has
formed at the top of the solution. Will update later.
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6220
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organised
|
|
Hmmm. I must check mine. I put some in an ampoule about 2 years ago. Last time I looked at it it was still purple (ok, periwinkle according to
literature), but had lost some of its characteristic brilliance.
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Just posted the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ5bCVPArPk
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
