Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Pentaerythritol from paint
Zinc
National Hazard
****




Posts: 472
Registered: 10-5-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-1-2007 at 03:57
Pentaerythritol from paint


I have heared that pentaerithrytol can be extracted from some types of paint.
Is that true?
If yes from what type of paint can it be extracted?



---------
Edited to make pentaerythritol spelled correctly in the title.

[Edited on 12-1-2007 by The_Davster]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
DrP
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 625
Registered: 28-9-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: exothermic

[*] posted on 12-1-2007 at 08:23


It is definately in most types of intumescent paint as a charing agent during combustion. How to extract it I would not know.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
nitro-genes
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1029
Registered: 5-4-2005
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 12-1-2007 at 08:33


I'm quite sure pentaerythritol is added as an additive in very small percentages, probably for esterification to function as a binder material for the pigment. I reckon it would be 2% at most, with a much larger amount of pigments, oil, water, etc...

Almost impossible to seperate, very costly, and extremely messy probably...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DrP
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 625
Registered: 28-9-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: exothermic

[*] posted on 12-1-2007 at 09:15


It's about 10 to 15 % in the intumescent paints. Still no idea how to get it out though.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Biginelli
Harmless
*




Posts: 28
Registered: 19-11-2006
Location: Moscow, Russian Federation
Member Is Offline

Mood: Content

[*] posted on 12-1-2007 at 11:33


Chromatography's the only effective way I guess. But costly.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
The_Davster
A pnictogen
*******




Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: .

[*] posted on 12-1-2007 at 14:02


Ideally a solvent immiscible with paint but which pentaerythritol is soluble in could be mixed in and then withdrawn. PE solubility charts are easy to find....but what else is in paint?



View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zinc
National Hazard
****




Posts: 472
Registered: 10-5-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-1-2007 at 16:02


Quote:
Originally posted by DrP
It's about 10 to 15 % in the intumescent paints.


What are intumescent paints?




View user's profile View All Posts By User
DrP
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 625
Registered: 28-9-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: exothermic

[*] posted on 15-1-2007 at 01:25


Quote:
Quote:


What are intumescent paints?


Paint systems which act as fire retardants by swelling up during heat/fire to form a protective barrier from the flame/heat and to offer insulation to the substrate. The Pentaerythritol acts as a charing/crosslinkinh agent for the char formation.

[Edited on 15-1-2007 by DrP]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
quicksilver
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline

Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~

[*] posted on 15-1-2007 at 07:32


This is such an inexpensive tech-grade industrial material it seems unnesessarlly troublesome to extract it. One can obtain it by the pound or Kg by direct purchase. Most any manufacturing facility that produces colored plastics, painting mfg, etc, etc - have enormous amounts of this in a very rough grade. I would invite a U2U but you can find these places yourself (like I did) with a very simple search and even narrow it down to your area if you live near a large industrial area. The cheapest I have seen it was $3 a pound for very course, tech-grade material with a bit of debris in it (93% pure). But the extraction from paint seems just a bit too troublesome. Extraction of pentaerythritol from solid materials wherein it's used much more would be possible - in the production of alkyd resins, rosin esters, dry oil, coating, ... even lubricants. Direct purchase is common however. Why use an extraction unless the extraction itself is of interest? Paint would be a very low yield. But for direct purchase you better move fast as it's starting to be mentioned in the TSCA bullletins (toxic substances control act proposals) - http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-TOX/2002/December/Day-16/t31... - It's not toxic to any great extent as far as I'm awair but in industial usage there are other issues wherein the USEPA is envolved.
Extraction of materials is best when you simply can't obtain that material directly, IMO. If you buy things today you will still be able to.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zinc
National Hazard
****




Posts: 472
Registered: 10-5-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-1-2007 at 09:46


Quote:
Originally posted by The_Davster
Ideally a solvent immiscible with paint but which pentaerythritol is soluble in could be mixed in and then withdrawn.


Perhaps water could be used. PE is soluble in it and most other things in paint are as far as I know not. Even if there are some other things that are soluble in water they could be removed from PE by recristalization.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sauron
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline

Mood: metastable

[*] posted on 20-1-2007 at 10:02


But what is the point? What's wrong with the acetaldehyde + formaldehyde good old PE prep as elucidated in Chem. of Powder and Explosives, Org.Syn. etc etc.?? Seems a lot less work than the muss and fuss of extraction from paint. Ugh.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DeAdFX
National Hazard
****




Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline

Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby

[*] posted on 20-1-2007 at 20:06


I would assume acetaladehyde is a little difficult to get otc. However I have seen acetaldehyde in form of metaaldehyde at a fertilizer store(~10% pure 90% inert shit). Formaldehyde is pretty easy to get otc(trioxane fuel tablets).

Anywho if the concentration of said chemical is not above 50% then it isn't really worth trying to purify[unless of course you are into manufacturing drugs and in which case anything will yeild a nice profit]. OR... If you have difficulty finding a seller of said chemical. Look for a different souce. This paint should be your last option.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
209
Harmless
*




Posts: 20
Registered: 23-1-2007
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-7-2007 at 20:42


Yeah, were do you guys get your pentaerythritol? I have never seen it ANYWERE. Not from chem suppliers, paint stores or anything. Were can I find it?? I would like to make some PETN but cannot find this damn chemical!
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top