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Author: Subject: UK legal disposal of banned substances.
anonymoose
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 09:01
UK legal disposal of banned substances.


Hi everyone. I was doing some googling today and i came across some legal jazz regarding various banned substances... (feel free to ignore the link)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/licensing-for-hom...

It turns out that i happen to own some of these banned substances, specifically mercury (lots) and its compounds, arsenic oxide and oxalic acid. I cant be bothered to get the required licence at this time and I also have no use for any of them (except the acid that i can dilute to make it legal).

Does any body know how to deal with this legally without getting myself in trouble, bearing in mind that even owning these things could potentially land me in jail for 2 years according to the link. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, especially if i have misunderstood the law stuff.
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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 09:16


You are advised to contact an attorney. My understanding is that the ex post facto protections that would cover you in the U.S. do not apply in the U.K. That stated, if you call up the Home Office, they'll probably be more than willing to help you.



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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 12:20


Imagine finding an old mercury-filled barometer and old packages of rodenticide in your grandfathers shed after he passes away. How should you dispose of them?

In my country (not the UK), the municipality collects waste such as this from private individuals at no cost to the citizens that bring their chemical waste to the collection point. Perhaps something similar exists in the UK?

[Edited on 10-7-2017 by phlogiston]




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[*] posted on 10-7-2017 at 12:23


There is a reasonable expectation that the Home Office will never issue a license to anyone.
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 05:04



On topic - I have some mercury that I got at a boot fair in the form of a couple of old thermometers and a barometer. I didn't stop to think that owning it might be illegal. :-( Maybe I'll sell it.





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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 05:17


DrP it may not illegal, you really should check your local regulations. I believe in the EU it is legal to own mercury in certain objects, but selling, importing and exporting mercury is generally not allowed.
In addition to the EU regulations, the EU member states usually have additional laws. In my country, there are a lot of exceptions to the rules for antique and modern measuring equipment containing mercury. For instance, barometers that were made before a certain date. I recall that mercury thermometers are OK to own and use for calibration purposes, but not for checking a fever.
You should really check what your local law forbids you from owning and doing with mercury-containing objects.

Rosco, surely I am not alone when I say that I find it really annoying to see every tread fill up with semi-political bullshit. The question was simple and practical. This is not the place to post your opinions about what is wrong with the world.

[Edited on 11-7-2017 by phlogiston]




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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 05:22


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
[...]
It must be just peachy enjoying all the individual liberty endured while living in that "socially engineered" socialist utopianist wet dream of cultural diversity that is the police state overlorded shithole-istan into which the U.K. and Europe have been "fundamentally transformed".

Gee thanks, but no thanks to such a nanny state "utopia" over run with lowlife mutts and inbred degenerates lopping heads, raping and murdering their way to "paradise" while wearing the shitstain tattoo on the forehead of the "faithful". Some might recognize the mark of the beast for what it is.
This kind of posts brings otherwise decent threads downhill very easily and I will not let that happen. One more post like this and you will receive a temporary ban for a few days. I have seen too much of this kind of crap :mad:



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11-7-2017 at 05:24
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 05:26


Rosco and everyone else, respectfully, please keep politics out of my little thread, this happens to be quite important to me and I don't want it to become a political soapbox for ANY political agenda. politics sucks, can we just leave it at that?
the arsenic i can convert to copper arsenate (=legal) and the mercury compounds which are properly illegal (i think) i can reduce to mercury, which i can easily excuse having. ive checked with the local authorities anonymously and my nearby recycling centre accepts "small quantities of mercury metal" but i have like 2 kilos if not more, so still digging into this... ill keep people informed in case someone has a similar problem
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 05:36


Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston  
DrP it may not illegal, you really should check your local regulations. I believe in the EU it is legal to own mercury in certain objects, but selling, importing and exporting mercury is generally not allowed.

[Edited on 11-7-2017 by phlogiston]


K- thanks phlog - I'll check before doing anything with it. (even if it is illegal I still might just stash it somewhere as I like owning the stuff). What is the best way to store this at home or in the shed... glass bottle? Does the cap need to be something other than plastic or is this OK? I was thinking about transferring the lot to a single vial or bottle. Thanks.




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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 05:58


Has anyone got any suggestions for a "wet" method to reduce HgO to Hg?, only i don't really want to heat it
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11-7-2017 at 05:58
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 06:28


Quote: Originally posted by anonymoose  
Has anyone got any suggestions for a "wet" method to reduce HgO to Hg?, only i don't really want to heat it


Dissolve the HgO in HCl, gradually add small scrap pieces of Al electrical wire until no more Al dissolves. Caution flammable Hydrogen evolves!

The elemental Hg will be a puddle at the bottom of the container of AlCl3 byproduct supernatant solution.

BTW anonymoose.....
Please recognize it is not me who is any source of hostility towards science, and attribute credit or blame correctly where it is due for whatever sort of interference with science or pertinent discussion or identification of its enemies.

And do not trust any "legal" advice more than your own common sense.

[Edited on 7/11/2017 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 06:39


Hmm i didn't think that HgO was particularly reactive towards HCl but fair enough. as for adding Al i dont think its a particularly good idea in general, would probably work for my needs but u would end up with an amalgum of Hg and Al. seeing as im looking to basically chucking it away then i spose thats ok but just for the sake of good chemistry i would prefer a better approach.
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 06:41


just realised Al/Hg amalgum reacts w/water so forget that last point
(edit: i was so busy trying not to look like an idiot that i forgot to thank you, so thanks Rosco for a quick and simple wet method :) )

[Edited on 11-7-2017 by anonymoose]
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 06:43


I know what I am talking about, and the proof of that is easily verified. But you go ahead and subject what I say to confirmation, whether it involves the reaction I described or anything else I have posted on this board.

You are welcome.



[Edited on 7/11/2017 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 06:53


Rosco, you are indeed correct, hence why i said to ignore my previous comment. The fact that it is so obviously correct leads me to be somewhat embarrassed but i would rather leave my stupid error for all to see for the sake of intellectual honesty rather than edit it. thanks again Rosco!
ps Despite my silly mistake I also know what I'm talking about, no offence was intended.
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 06:59


I meant no offense by all the other things I said about the hostile societal environment towards science. It has all worn on my patience over the years, not to mention the "compliance costs" for going along to get along with bullshit regulations written by "experts" who are clueless.
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 07:07


I totally agree that modern society is in general very unhelpful toward home chemistry, these laws appear to be based on the notion that we are all drug and/or explosive manufacturers. But I think that conversation should occur in its own thread. The toxicity of Hg is greatly exaggerated and misunderstood but as far as i am concerned keeping it is more hassle than its worth and the easiest way to show the authorities i'm being a good little citizen is by playing by the rules.
For the record if anybody wants some mercury, while im not allowed to give it to you, if you came to my house and took it i wouldn't mind.
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 07:29


Quote: Originally posted by anonymoose  

For the record if anybody wants some mercury, while im not allowed to give it to you, if you came to my house and took it i wouldn't mind.


Are you in the SE UK? I could drop in for a cuppa tea... I won't steal your mercury supply whilst I'm there. :cool:

PM me if you are south east... I'm not driving all the way up to Newcastle for it. :D




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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 07:42


South west UK so probably a tad too far for you but it is quite a lot, like 2 kilos maybe, I forget the exact amount.
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 08:05


Quote: Originally posted by anonymoose  
South west UK so probably a tad too far for you but it is quite a lot, like 2 kilos maybe, I forget the exact amount.


2 kg!! :o That's a lot! For me anyway. Is it about the size of a coke can? Smaller even I suppose, it is so dense.

I am going to go to the Jurasic coast in a month or 2. If you still have it then I will gladly take it. I've been trying to collect it for years but find it hard to get any.

... I would suggest decent packing and posting it... (I'd pay you of course)... but, legality aside, I wouldn't want it spilling out in the post.





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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 08:17


Well I'm not going to post it, i am trying to keep my lab and my activities as legal as possible and thus (hopefully) as hassle free from the authorities as i can manage.
its in an old porcelain tub, my dad gave it to me and hes had it since about 1963 so it really wants a new container.
the container has a narrow top so i've never actually seen the whole lot in one place so i couldn't tell u the volume but the tub is probably a 500ml. Dad guesses about 150 ml of Hg and a mass of 1.75 ish kg, CBA to work out if those numbers make sense.
if you want it I'm sure it could be arranged.
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 08:57


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Quote: Originally posted by anonymoose  
Has anyone got any suggestions for a "wet" method to reduce HgO to Hg?, only i don't really want to heat it


Dissolve the HgO in HCl, gradually add small scrap pieces of Al electrical wire until no more Al dissolves. Caution flammable Hydrogen evolves!

The elemental Hg will be a puddle at the bottom of the container of AlCl3 byproduct supernatant solution.

BTW anonymoose.....
Please recognize it is not me who is any source of hostility towards science, and attribute credit or blame correctly where it is due for whatever sort of interference with science or pertinent discussion or identification of its enemies.

And do not trust any "legal" advice more than your own common sense.

[Edited on 7/11/2017 by Rosco Bodine]


Rochelle's salt can be used to get the aluminum salts into solution since it is an excellent ligand for the aluminum. This will make it easier to work up and separate the mercury.

EDIT: I didn't read your entire post. Majority of the aluminum would be present as soluble chloride anyway, so the Rochelle's salt would be overkill.

[Edited on 11-7-2017 by Loptr]




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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 18:28


ive just ordered 100grams of Ga, so it would be nice to know if rochelle's salt would remove Ga from Al. i find it funny to notice that my anonymous tag gets much less grief than my actual tag. post numbers mean nothing of a persons knowledge
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[*] posted on 11-7-2017 at 19:37


Quote: Originally posted by anonymoose  
ive just ordered 100grams of Ga, so it would be nice to know if rochelle's salt would remove Ga from Al. i find it funny to notice that my anonymous tag gets much less grief than my actual tag. post numbers mean nothing of a persons knowledge


sock puppet! :o




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[*] posted on 12-7-2017 at 02:35


I was thinking of making a Hg/Au amalgam some day and maybe purifying some gold with it.

Anonymoose - I'll PM you if I am down your way over the next few months - I'll buy you a beer if you fancy it. :-)




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