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anonymoose
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NEMO-Chemistry ; i am not familiar with "bloggers" problem, i assume u mean blogfast. if u can give a link to the issue that would be nice so long as
it isnt counter to his case.
i am honestly somewhat relieved by the info in my last link. sure the powers that be are collecting data but i have 2 answers for that.
1) it isnt hard to locally source stuff and that helps to reduce ones online footprint.
2) i believe that they are just paranoid idiots cross referencing data of people purchasing large quantities of explosive (or drug) precursors. just
dont buy too many suspicious things (and dont make drugs or explosives) and you should be fine. and if u do make energetics then buy precursors to
precursors and do it smart.
(edit, 3rd answer; the idiots that collect data have so much data that they cant process it and it becomes useless for anything other than proving a
person did something after they did it and have a name and a terrorist attack to apply it to)
for the record i dont make explosives, just saying.
anyhoo if you have evidence that im wrong then please share it but i think SM is a tad like Israel, persecuted so much that its turned a little
paranoid. no offence intended to anyone, ive often felt it myself.
(edited paragraphing)
[Edited on 17-12-2017 by anonymoose]
[Edited on 17-12-2017 by anonymoose]
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j_sum1
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Blogfast was incarcerated for activities related to his home chemistry and supply of chems to others. Publically available details are sketchy and you
have to wade through acres of hyperbole in the media. It seems like a combination of administrative oversight on the part of bloggers combined with an
overreaction on the part of the authorities with the intention of making an example of him.
The bottom line is that the authorities in the UK are serious and there can be dire consequences. Which is why discussions on doing things properly
are so important.
[Edited on 17-12-2017 by j_sum1]
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NEMO-Chemistry
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Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  | Blogfast was incarcerated for activities related to his home chemistry and supply of chems to others. Publically available details are sketchy and you
have to wade through acres of hyperbole in the media. It seems like a combination of administrative oversight on the part of bloggers combined with an
overreaction on the part of the authorities with the intention of making an example of him.
The bottom line is that the authorities in the UK are serious and there can be dire consequences. Which is why discussions on doing things properly
are so important.
[Edited on 17-12-2017 by j_sum1] |
That pretty much sums it up, the thought that they dont have time is misleading. I assume they have a system for this, they are looking for certain
chems that keep popping up but are not restricted, like Acetone for example.
If you think the chances are slim they will show up, then you misguided. Everything i have been told so far, makes me think there is also alot of
profiling going on, they are not trying to stop chemistry, they are trying to stop acid attacks and bomb making.
I know the following for sure..
The police get a list every WEEK from chem suppliers, this details who brought what and how much of it, it covers around 140 chems.
Order a few chems with most being benign at the chance of a visit is lower. Order a full on pyro order and for sure your activities regarding
purchases will be watched.
I suspect they also do background checks (wouldnt take long), so your history plays a part. In all honesty the more you hide the more you attract
attention.
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anonymoose
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with no offence intended, the arrest was about selling chemicals to unregistered people. i would bet money on that beaing the reason.
im not a betting person so that should speak volumes.
I am fully aware that home chemistry is a hobby that is disliked by authorities
dont buy stuff that is banned, stuff u aquired before a ban can be answerd for. my stuff was purchased in around 1960 ish
my whole purpose here was to ask for help regarding disposal of Hg, but it was pointless because of paranoyed people that have no idea of the law
this irritates me more than the law
this forum should educate us but it fails to do so
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Assured Fish
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| Quote: |
this forum should educate us but it fails to do so
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I disagree entirely, this is a chemistry forum and a damn fine one at that (not sure if you have realized this given your post history), If your
question was dirrectly related to chemistry then im sure you would get the biggest schooling of your life. The issue is that your topic is political
in nature.
In fact not only is this topic political, its irrationally one of the most infuriating and down right bull shit topics on the entire forum.
The banning of those compounds in their entirety is nothing short of insanity, i go red in the face just thinking about it.
I suspect most of us feel the same as me, hence the nature of the replies.
This is only accentuated by the fact that we are all a bunch of backward thinking anarchs that would like nothing better than an island all to
ourselves where we can summon untold horrors from the deep pits of the void without anyone ever asking the infuriatingly retarded question of
why.
If i lived in the UK, i would likely be packing up my lab and getting the fuck out of that shit pit, slandering it as i walk onto the plane.
There aint not way in hell i could ever live in an oppressive nanny state such as what the UK is turning into.
Alas, this still doesn't answer your original question.
I haven't the foggiest clue what you should do with the arsenic beyond packing it into a nice storage container and hiding it in the deepest darkest
corner you know of.
However that list says nothing about sulfides of mercury, why not simply react it with a bunch of sulfur and then put it into storage, If you don't
want to store cinnabar (your a fucken pussy if you don't) then i would simply take it to a disposal site and tell them exactly what it is.
This won't get you into any trouble at all as its a naturally occurring mineral.
I haven't a fucken clue why oxalic acid is on that list given how much you need to eat in order to poison yourself (several grams).
I would however just oxidize it in some piranha or fentons reagent.
Also has anyone actually tried to apply for one of those licenses.
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anonymoose
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Assured fish.
I find that when i find an opinion that i cannot find a logical counteragument to it is often because i dont understand it.
the forum has thus far FAILED mostly due to paranoya and an inability to read legal documentation.
don't get me wrong, i am often paranoyed regarding chemistry but i have at least read the law. perhaps the forum does not fail us but this thread
does.
as for being "schooled" i am an old hand at this and i take issue with that statement. you know nothing of who i am and my scientific knoledge, but
that is the point of this isnt it.
this isnt a political thread it is about the law as it stands in the coutry i live. a political thread would mention how much better the UK is than a
country that voted for an idiot like trump, BUT that really is a thing to be disgussed elsewhere.
this isnt a political thread so please leave politics out of it.
your later statements are infact inccorect. it is stated that owning arsenic compounds is ok eg copperarsenate, it is also stated in other legal
documentation that mercury sulphide is legal to own.
if you are not deliberatley misunderstanding the law then you are acting in a very paranoid manner.
as for oxalic acid it has a long history of use as a poison used in numerous murders, beyond that i have no idea.
lastly, while i criticize paranoya i suffer from it myself so please dont take offence
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Assured Fish
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anonymoose then ill take the date 1-1-2000 which is written on your profile as inaccurate.
The fact that you think of yourself so highly as to think you cannot be shot off your high horse speaks volumes about your age and background.
(young and foolish, despite the age of your body)
Everybody can be wrong and to get the schooling of your life at the age of 60 would be far from unheard of.
The value of your words can only be judged on the validity of those words, not your age or background.
Alas i am here to school you.
This thread is political in nature, whether this was your intention or not, as it directly concerns the current UK governments and
the laws that they are putting into place in supposed retaliation to a problem that they created in the first place.
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as far as i can tell. the council, with which i have been in contact, don't seem to give the slightest of turds about me owning Hg
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Were these not your words?
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it is stated that owning arsenic compounds is ok eg copperarsenate, it is also stated in other legal documentation that mercury sulphide is legal to
own.
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Or these?
It is more than apparent that your original questions have been answered, maybe not so much as they were served to you on a silver platter but nothing
ever is.
You have been told multiple times that you can just take it to a waste disposal site and say "hey i found some of this stuff while clearing out an
old shed can you guys get rid of it".
To think that this wouldn't work would be truly paranoid.
I have also illustrated to you that you can just oxidized the oxalic acid to destroy it, now i realize i said oxidize it using piranha (which would
require H2O2) however the fucken air is full of oxygen and its not hard to get your hands on a reducing agent (after all the stuff literally grows on
trees) and then incinerate the oxalic acid, this could be accomplished with generally all organics with a few exceptions.
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your later statements are infact inccorect
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I suspect your are reffering to this:
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I haven't the foggiest clue what you should do with the arsenic beyond packing it into a nice storage container and hiding it in the deepest darkest
corner you know of. However that list says nothing about sulfides of mercury, why not simply react it with a bunch of sulfur and then put it into
storage, If you don't want to store cinnabar (your a fucken pussy if you don't) then i would simply take it to a disposal site and tell them exactly
what it is. This won't get you into any trouble at all as its a naturally occurring mineral.
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In which case I was not wrong and i told absolutely no fibs.
Finally to YOUR last statements.
To kill a fully grown adult human, one would need to consume in excess of 10 grams of oxalic acid, this combined with the symptoms being very
treatable and detectable and the stuff being very acidic and likely very noticeable in ones food.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3527234/
This would make oxalic acid one of the worse ways to kill someone EVER.
There a hundreds of far more effective and easily available toxins that would do a better job.
For this reason, i seriously doubt your claim of oxalic acid being used to murder someone and so i would kindly ask that you provide some evidence
of this.
The only cases of people being poisoned from it that i could logically discern, would be of children eating large amounts of rhubarb leaves, or as in
the case of my reference, someone trying to commit suicide.
The former being impossible to mitigate beyond banning rhubarb.
The latter being pointless as people will only find other ways to kill themselves (probably much more lethal ways to kill themselves).
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anonymoose
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(edit, this is directed at "assured fish")
anything in my profile is inacurate as it is designed to be anonymous, obviously.
I dont think of myself particularly highly, but dispite my flaws I am quite well educated in chemistry and you would find it hard to make me look
otherwise.
to claim to know that i am young and foolish is just a personal attack i wont rise to.
alas no i am not "schooled" this thread is about legality, not politics, the two are associated but distinct.
your next point is slightly disturbing in so far as your selective memory;
you said "You have been told multiple times that you can just take it to a waste disposal site" and yet i was told, and i did mention this, that they
only take limited quantites.
worse the following quote makes no sense; "I have also illustrated to you that you can just oxidized the oxalic acid to destroy it, now i
realize i said oxidize it using piranha (which would require H2O2) however the fucken air is full of oxygen and its not hard to get your hands on a
reducing agent (after all the stuff literally grows on trees) and then incinerate the oxalic acid, this could be accomplished with generally all
organics with a few exceptions."
all this crap said while this is legal to own below 40% so diluting it might be easier.
with regards to arsenic its easier to convert into copper arsenate so bollock to paying for storage.
as to converting Hg to the sulphide i think you underestimate (or forgot to read) how much Hg i have.
yes you told no fibs but were either not reading the thread fully or being arrogant. i hope the former.
oxalic acid, as you say, is a crap murder device, but i refuse to provide evidence on account of the fact that a simple google search would find many
examples. it is an old school murder chemical, this is historical fact, it doesnt make it clever, but its true.
regarding rhubarb you are being flippant.
as for suicide people do actually drink bleach so lets not try and explore the logic of that awfull and dark hole.
regardless your arguments have been weak at best.
try again to "school" me, you have failed thus far.
kind regards
[Edited on 6-1-2018 by anonymoose]
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ninhydric1
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Prove your claim that you're "well educated in chemistry" then by helping out people on this forum instead of arguing over political paranoia. Also,
if you're going to trash talk the people and this forum, GTFO.
The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
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anonymoose
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ninhydric1
My profile is an anonymous one, and as such (sock puppet as it is) you cannot claim to know what other contributions i have made to this forum.
You would know this if you actually read the thread.
but my main problem with what you say (but mostly with "assured fish") is the notion that one can look at a persons number of posts (and age but in my
case thats made up) and choose to talk in an insuferable manner to that person. i believe in america its called "hazing" a newcomer.
there is no place for this in science.
when i defend myself after being unreasonably attacked, it seems odd that you come to support the person that makes idiotic claims/attacks instead of
a reasoned or scientific logic.
i know i got annoyed and referenced trump, my bad, and i spose im a little sorry for that. but i think you will find that most of my replys are
scientific
as for claiming that i can prove i'm well educated? what u wana see my qualifications? get lost.
as for talking trash, you should GTFO, im responding to trash talk with logic. like it or not I was the one being treated like crap.
to both of you:
Grow up and realise that "noobs" to the forum arent all ignorant.
lastly; again i have a lot of Hg to react and when small experiments are repeated on large scale things do tend to work quite differently.
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ELRIC
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Man, this is like watching franklyn and bffeser going at it all over again.
SM is the greatest chemistry forum on the planet. How can you get on here and
not learn, as stated before “ this forum should educate us but fails to do so”?
I’ve lurked here since prolly 06. This is looking like a one way ticket to Detritus.
I have no beef with anyone on this forum, and intend to keep it that way. IMHO, there
has been ample suggestions on what to do with the Hg. Although, I wonder what
blogfast would have to say about it.
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OldNubbins
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I don't know if I am alone in thinking this, but if I see someone spending an inordinate amount of time defending themselves from 'unreasonable
attacks', then maybe their position isn't as sound as they would have me think. I think ninhydric1 was just trying to say you will get more respect
from the demonstration of knowledge rather than the assertion of it.
These are just words on a screen, they cannot hurt you, chill.....
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anonymoose
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Elric
well said " this forum should educate us but fails to do so” i meant to say this "thread" many appologies. this forum is wonderful, and i miss
spoke. sorry
as for examples to do with Hg, i am aware of them but large scale chem, ive never dealt with industiral levels and dealt only in small quantites and i
find this somwhat daunting. perhaps thats my problem. but i know from experience that scaling things up often has issues.
Old nubbins
i am not sure why i cant get this accross but here it is again:
if you look through my replys you will see that i am mostly agreeable and logical
i CANNOT (as in i am litterally unable to) demonstrate my knowledge upon this forum, due to its being a sock puppet profile
a profile that is ANONYMOUS
i understand why people keep persisting in talking to me but please dont unless you have read the whole thread
its almost as if you want me to get annoyed with you
please dont post unless youve read the thread fully, and please lets get back to processing or otherwise dealing with the UK law Re illegal
substances.
lets please keep this profesional??
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anonymoose
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hello again everyone.
with frustration faded i would like to try again at pushing this thread towards its original purpose.
while i have been insulted i accidentily insulted the entire forum and i appologise unreservedly.
but to move on and to summarise we have found several methods of disposing of (UK) illegal chemicals that are practical;
Oxalic acid ; dilute it to or below 40%
Arsenic oxide; react with NaOH to form sodium arsenate then react with
copper sulphate to yield copper arsenate and sodium sulphate, separation of those is trivial.
Mercury (small quantities) react with a mixture of Ca(OH)2 and sulphur (i forget the ratios but ask and i will provide them. (large scale reactions of
this type are combersome and yield vast quantites of chemical waste that either requires purification or explanations of large volumes of chemical
waste at waste processing facilities, trust me i researched as much, or dont)
it would be nice if people could add methods for the other chemicals in the list
as for nitric acid i would behave as though it is legal to produce nitric acid in situ, for eg for nitration adding a nitrate salt in correct amounts
to conc H2SO4, but i have not tried this. so its just a thought. but i have read about this method and never tried it.
please add to this thread if you have further thoughts
again i honestly did not mean to speak ill of this forum, only this thread. but i do feel i was badly treated. regardless, please add to this because
it expands what british people can do legally.
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DrP
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| Quote: Originally posted by anonymoose | while i have been insulted i accidentily insulted the entire forum and i appologise unreservedly.
but to move on and to summarise we have found several methods of disposing of (UK) illegal chemicals that are practical;
again i honestly did not mean to speak ill of this forum, only this thread. but i do feel i was badly treated. regardless, please add to this because
it expands what british people can do legally.
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You seem fine to me. It is fashionable for people that don't know what they are talking about to take control and wave their dicks about in the world
at the moment - so I wouldn't worry about some moron not knowing what they are talking about having a go at you now. Maybe you insulted them - so
what - what you said was correct.
You have no need to post your Degree certificate and resume here to prove anything. So what if some guy from half way around the world knows nothing
of our laws and has been brain washed into thinking we are a sinking ship so he should keep voting right wing? It has nothing to do with the
chemistry... you didn't make it political - they did when they started attacking our law without any understanding of it. I'd ignore ignorance like
that - you can't reason with them... it's political not scientific.
w.r.t. your mercury - My Dorset trip got cancelled, so sorry - I cannot pick it up. If you still have it around Easter then I might go to the
Jurassic coast for a few days and maybe can take it then, unless someone else has baggsied it by then, or you find a better way to get rid of it.
Happy new year!
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
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ninhydric1
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Anonymoose, I made my post on the fact you called this forum "unable to educate", but I appreciate your clarification and apology. Just to clarify, I
wasn't defending assured fish, but was slightly offended by your above statement. Threads in legal and societal issues never educate anyway, so no
surprise there.
About the subject on qualifications, I just don't like those who flaunt their qualifications in a valid debate. I know those who are uneducated
(didn't go to college) who are extremely intelligent, so have a college degree isn't a definite advantage over some else in an equal argument,
especially if you're anonymous.
The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
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DrP
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| Quote: Originally posted by ninhydric1 | | so have a college degree isn't a definite advantage over some else in an equal argument, especially if you're anonymous. |
In his defence - he didn't go flaunting anything nor did he boast about any qualifications.... he was just attacked with "let me school on this boy"
by the poster - which was followed with ignorant political garbage which showed no knowledge of our laws at all. Thus I defended him above..... not
that he needs it.
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
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ninhydric1
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From my POV, this sounds as if he is claiming to be more intelligent than others. I believe he is probably a highly educated person, but no need to
repeat it. You have mentioned it already.
Anyway, with the Hg, just wait until someone comes to pick up. If you are really scared about Hg leakage, just convert to HgS. It's insoluble and easy
to prepare if you have sulfur. You can store long term in this chemical compound. It's much easier just to store it as metal under water in a sturdy
plastic container.
The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
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anonymoose
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ninhydric1
I appreciate the acceptance of my appology.
WRT my statement;
"I am quite well educated in chemistry and you would find it hard to make me look otherwise."
i am unappologetic for that because i actually am quite well educated in chemistry (obsessed in fact) and while others might be better educated they
would find it hard to prove me to be uneducated, because i simply am not. but it is true that there are vast and gaping voids in my knowledge of
chemistry but surely that is true of everyone.
Seriously though can we please redirect this thread towards actually facing this list and dealing with it?
that was the whole point in this thread, i hoped it would become a sticky but no hope there methinks. well perhaps a little if a mod could tidy it up.
TO ANY BODY THAT READS THIS;
find a chemical in the list and propose a method of disposal/conversion that is helpful to the comunity PLEASE! even if its not fully thought through
all suggestions welcome
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anonymoose
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DrP lol thanks for your interesting and colourfuly distiled sumary.
WRT my Hg its still waiting to find a loving home so we will see
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NEMO-Chemistry
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Buying Mercury is a problem, finding you have some old mercury is not. Owning mercury you are given since the ban is not ok. But scientific
instruments are ok as long as they are in tact.
In short if you clear grandads shed and find a load your ok, if you buy a load off someones grandad your not ok. If you have a large mercury
thermometer collection your ok.
With mercury the rules about keeping it out of products and the environment etc. Most regulated and LA owned recycle centers will take it if its not a
stupid amount.
Thats a distilled phone call asking someone who deals with this.
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OldNubbins
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| Quote: |
Thats a distilled phone call asking someone who deals with this.
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Was it done under vacuum?
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woelen
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I have the impression that many of the regulations (REACH) are about the use for all kinds of processes in daily life, beit industrial or done by
private persons. E.g. in the Netherlands, you may not sell potassium dichromate as a mordant for skins and leather. It also may not be used for
cleaning purposes and may not be sold as such. It, however, still is sold, also to individuals, by quite a few suppliers, as a general lab chemical.
So, I have the impression that many toxic chemicals may not be sold as cleaning agents, hobby products, arts supplies, etc. with fancy brand names
intented to be used by a large public. If they are sold simply as the chemical, under its chemical name, then I have the impression they still are
available, also to private individuals. Only Na/K-chlorates, Na/K-perchlorates, nitric acid, conc. H2O2 and CH3NO2 are really prohibited. H2SO4,
KMnO4, acetic anhydride, and a few others require the buyer to fill in a declaration of use form. A few weeks ago I even could buy chlorosulfonic
acid, which is insanely corrosive and extremely reactive towards water. No questions asked, not even a declaration of use. Only shipping was more
expensive than normal postal shipping, I assume because of its corrosive nature.
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anonymoose
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turns out i made a mistake, oxlic acid must be at most 10 %
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anonymoose
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Woelen, i refer specifically to UK law, while it is based on EU law i dont know how these differ. i speak only about UK law and it appears that they
might Differ. (for what its worth i voted to stay in EU) many chemicals are still sold in the uk but with the legal provision that they be quietly
reported to authorities.
for example i can buy acetone and hydrogen peroxide but doing so online (above certain concentrations) is risky.
while they can be bought locally it usually requires knoledge of what things are made from in advance
i am quite good at sourcing materials and am more interested in the disposal of those that i cant get rid of by easier means. hence this thread. PS in
this particular post i am quite drunk so appologies if this is in some way stupid or insulting etc
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