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Magpie
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[*] posted on 13-7-2017 at 20:00
lab safety equipment


I decided it was time to place a greater emphasis on safety in my lab. The upgrades I have are an eyewash station and a CO2 deluge system for my fume hood/ducting. I also have a bucket of sand and a regular ABC dry fire extinguisher. My next addition will be a fire blanket made from an army surplus wool blanket.



eyewash station.jpg - 123kB CO2 deluge line at fire extinguisher.jpg - 134kB CO2 deluge line at exhaust duct.jpg - 102kB




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JJay
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[*] posted on 13-7-2017 at 20:43


I picked this up a while back. I've used this model for distilling benzene and bromine without noticing any off smells, and it does a fine job against heavy smoke, chlorine, hydrogen chloride and nitrogen oxides too. I've actually only used this particular mask once, for transferring a large amount of dusty sodium dichromate into a permanent storage container, but I definitely like having a good respirator on hand.



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[*] posted on 13-7-2017 at 20:45


Very nice. I like what you've done with the hood.

I have a similar eyewash station, a dry-chemical fire extinguisher, and I keep a full size flat shovel down there in case I need to manipulate a burning object at a distance or scoop sand from the crawlspace onto it. I have a power switch that can cut the lab power from just outside the door WITHOUT disabling the hood fan (to keep the basement breathable in an emergency), and a master gas valve to shut off the natural gas line if I need to. On top of all that, the lab water supply is not the only water supply in the basement - I have an additional utility tub on the other side of the basement with a garden hose hookup for emergency washdown, etc. The floors are concrete and I wash them down with the hose from time to time, and could easily use it on myself or the bench if a situation occurred.

I also have emergency signage on to door in case I am found incapacitated on the lab floor: (Sorry for the bad pics; the focus mechanism on my camera phone is broken)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_16NzkNoL75dGgyWFlFQzR1OX...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_16NzkNoL75Sy1CaUFuUjRXOT...

Before I begin work, I slip the appropriate card into the holder on the door to give potential first responders a better clue as to what might be wrong, for their safety and for my (hopefully) speedy resuscitation.




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Magpie
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[*] posted on 14-7-2017 at 04:56


Wow. Your signage is impressive. I'm going to test my deluge system today with a pan of burning alcohol. I may post this experiment on YouTube.



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NEMO-Chemistry
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[*] posted on 14-7-2017 at 05:19


Not sure if they have the same thing over there magpie, but in the Uk some the smaller pubs/bars still use CO2 cylinders for the beer pumps. I got 1 for £5 full. They are around 3 foot high so hold a fair but of gas and have a valve on top, so you could have that open and one them lever valves on the pipes for flooding. Just an idea as they hold alot of CO2.

These type of ones


[Edited on 14-7-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]

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veganalchemist
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[*] posted on 14-7-2017 at 07:24


I have a ten person first aid kit with a couple of packs of Burnshield. Two eye wash bottles. There are all mounted on a board with the green first aid cross.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Burnshield-Burn-Dressing-10cm/dp/B0...

Also an emergency light that powers on when the mains power cuts out. It's near the exit.

On the landing outside the lab. An AFFF and a carbon dioxide fire extinuisher, fire blanket, bucket of sand and some pig mat.

Also a bag of cat litter and a couple of bags of vermiculite.

Lots of pairs of safety glasses, a nice face shield (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uvex-S8510-Bionic-Shield-Black-Matte...).

I saw a documentary where Michael Mosley visited Porton Down in the UK and he was wearing one of these face shields, and some safety specks, when they where showing him some VX. He had his face pretty close to the open fume hood and the lab tech told him to move back a bit!!!

Also a nice respirator.






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[*] posted on 14-7-2017 at 07:51


I also use propper metal storage cabinets, not wooden/chipboard kitchen units.

Also remember, don't put antything on the floor you don't want stood on (had some glassware on a tray on the floor a long time ago, never again!)

I thought about a sparkproof emergency phone.

An oxygen meter may come in helpfull.

https://www.tester.co.uk/crowcon-clip-personal-single-gas-de...





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[*] posted on 14-7-2017 at 07:53
Most important safety equipment




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[*] posted on 14-7-2017 at 12:36


What exactly does one use a disembodied brain for? It does contain a lot of water I suppose, maybe good for putting out fires?

In all seriousness, sense is an important tool in preventing and dealing with issues. My lab is not very sophisticated and mostly I work outside, but I have a dry chemical fire extinguisher, and I always keep a bucket of water and one of sand handy. I also use a blanket of ceramic fiber wool as a fire blanket (I got it for free at a local boiler building company, who I also ordered 200 pounds of castable refractory from), it is rated for 2300 degrees Fahrenheit. A respirator also comes in handy often. I have a wash-down hose as well in case I need to wash some part of me. My safety system is not as complicated or as good as the ones you all have, but I think it is sufficient for what I do.
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[*] posted on 14-7-2017 at 13:00


I also vouch for the real cheapo cat litter!! its second to none to getting up spills!! cheaper the better. A brain in a jar would be cool on the shelf
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[*] posted on 15-7-2017 at 04:55


Thinking about this thread has got me wondering. What else do people do to make labs safe?

For example I am moving mine out the house and into a barn, as we have a new bathroom fitted i did wonder if it was worth putting the old shower in. But that seems overkill. When working with strong acids etc i wear chest waders with wellies built in. these are heavy duty fishing ones and not the nylon ones.

I have tested with Nitric etc and they are resistant, I hose them down when I have fished and hang up. I have a fire blanket which was a spare from the boat we had. I have loads cheap kitty litter thats excellent for spills.

i dont have CO2 flooding for the fume hood but i might consider that.

But what about COSH sheets for the chemicals we have? where would you put them and how would you make people like the fire brigade aware of where they were?

Might sound overkill but here in the UK i think the more professional amateurs behave the better in the long run.

Solely to save money i buy solvents in quantities of 5-25 ltrs, 99.9% IPA costs me £32, while 1 lytr costs m3 £18 with shipping. 25KG of sodium Hydroxide pellets costs £33 delivered etc etc etc.

My bulk stuff is kept in cabinets out in the barn away from the house, but i think it would be good to discuss what we could do better and some the rules. I cant find much info i understand when it comes to storage etc.
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Magpie
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[*] posted on 16-7-2017 at 11:17


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
I'm going to test my deluge system today with a pan of burning alcohol. I may post this experiment on YouTube.


I tested the CO2 deluge system today. I am embarrassed to say that the pressure (~1000 psi) exceeded the capability of my piping system. It popped open right at the black flare/PVC fitting junction. Therefore a revision is in order. I'm going to need a pressure regulator to drop the pressure waaay down.




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[*] posted on 16-7-2017 at 20:50


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
I'm going to test my deluge system today with a pan of burning alcohol. I may post this experiment on YouTube.


I tested the CO2 deluge system today. I am embarrassed to say that the pressure (~1000 psi) exceeded the capability of my piping system. It popped open right at the black flare/PVC fitting junction. Therefore a revision is in order. I'm going to need a pressure regulator to drop the pressure waaay down.


Ooops ! xD
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[*] posted on 17-7-2017 at 18:12


Disembodied brain question? Heck everybody has interesting uses for one of those.

YOUR brain is disembodied, and you don't know what to do with it? Perhaps the Country/Western solution, appeals to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0aXi6tYU_w
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[*] posted on 18-7-2017 at 12:25


Well if your brain is desembodied YOU aren't going to do very much with it, unless you were born with a prehensile spinal cord, like a lemur's tail:D
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[*] posted on 2-8-2017 at 10:32


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
I'm going to test my deluge system today with a pan of burning alcohol. I may post this experiment on YouTube.


I tested the CO2 deluge system today. I am embarrassed to say that the pressure (~1000 psi) exceeded the capability of my piping system. It popped open right at the black flare/PVC fitting junction. Therefore a revision is in order. I'm going to need a pressure regulator to drop the pressure waaay down.


I use Halon for my system and Purple K powder as it is designed more for fuel fires.

26.jpg - 143kB
http://www.maxellinternational.com/?page_id=161

CO2 it is a matter of pipe size and velocity, you need an expander head inside the hood about 3 for a long hood to slow it down and expand it to a cold fog, so your feed pipe needs to handle the 1800psi working pressure.

Not impossible to do for an amateur but will be a bit of a pain for ya to source the heads.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/1kg-CO2-Fire-Extingui... < But then there is that! for a 6 foot hood I'd use 2 with a one foot set back from the ends

[Edited on 2-8-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]

[Edited on 2-8-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]
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[*] posted on 2-8-2017 at 11:33


From my experience with makeshift eyewashing -- make sure it's not too cold. Really cold water hurts your eyes.
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Magpie
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[*] posted on 2-8-2017 at 13:27


The vapor pressure of liquid CO2 at room temperature is about 1000 psi.



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[*] posted on 2-8-2017 at 17:42


and your at standard room temp all year round with out it ever going higher?

That's why we call it working pressure, it is a design window to account for higher ambient, there is all so a safety factor, pipes will be rated with 2 figures, working pressure and burst pressure.

For example on a R410 system the rated working pressure of the pipes used should be never less then 600psi, the average operating pressure how ever should rarely go above 400, then the rupture should be well over a 1000psi.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-cpvc-pipes-pressures-d...

as you can see PVC is no where near the acceptable working pressure of 1800psi for a CO2 system! it all so fails in the required temp handling as CO2 at sea level will expand (Boil) at apx -78c

https://www.americanelements.com/boiling-point.html

This is why you need expander nozzles, 1 to slow the jet velocity at point of release, and 2 to cause it to fog (Gas with super fine dry ice snow) this creates back pressure in the supply piping system. Other wise it will blow apart the fume hood and scatter its contents better then extinguishing it!

Working pressure is what matters not vapor! for safeties sake and system reliability!
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[*] posted on 3-8-2017 at 02:40


If there is for example a solvent fire in a fume hood equipped with automatic CO2 release,
is there not a good chance that the CO2 would initially explode the flames and flaming solvent out of the front of the fume cupboard - where the operator stands ?




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[*] posted on 3-8-2017 at 03:22


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
The upgrades I have are an eyewash station


I like this - I think it is very important. Personally I like to have a mirror by the sink as well so when or if you ever get anything on your face or in your eyes you can look and check when washing it off... probably not essential, but when rinsing eyes I like to have a mirror nearby for visual inspection of how red or inflamed an area might be on your face so as to help you decide if further action/help is necessary.




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[*] posted on 3-8-2017 at 04:05


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
If there is for example a solvent fire in a fume hood equipped with automatic CO2 release,
is there not a good chance that the CO2 would initially explode the flames and flaming solvent out of the front of the fume cupboard - where the operator stands ?


With the proper low velocity expander heads it will flood the entire area in a CO2 fog (CO2 gas and fine dry ice snow) relatively gently, but hooked up the way he has it yes, odds are it will disperse the fire and "Might" put it out a little bit.

R-134a is used in gas form as a fire suppressant, that'd be the safer bet for the fume hood as will be easier to dispense at low volocity by an amateur built system and easily obtainable.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2017 at 08:43


Thanks very much for this information. I have a 4 foot wide hood. So how many heads will I need?

U




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[*] posted on 3-8-2017 at 15:13


If not super high just one in the top center of the side would effectively flood the cabinet, would make your plumbing easier too. you where on the right track with what you where doing, just material selection needed some attention.

The low velocity high volume heads really do a good job, watch some you tube vids on them.

if it is a high up hood one on each side aiming to the middle so the jets are hitting the side of the cabinet on the other side of each other allowing the gas to lose velocity and flood the cabinet gently. but one should do.

[Edited on 3-8-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]
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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 06:55


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
So how many heads will I need?


Not sure - but I recommend 1 mirror by the sink. ;) In case you get something splashed on your face and you need to visually take a look to see if it is all off or near your eye.

.... and hey! a pretty girl might knock on the lab door and you might want to quickly check yourself out before you let her in. ;) There are many uses for it that go beyond the remit of safety. :D

[Edited on 9-8-2017 by DrP]




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