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Author: Subject: Sodium nitrate/urea complex
Zinc
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[*] posted on 26-1-2007 at 08:31
Sodium nitrate/urea complex


I have once heared (do not remember where) that a sodium nitrate/urea complex exist and that it has a VOD of around 1700 m/s. I also heared that it could be used as a primary explosive.
Does anyone have any information about it?




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quicksilver
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[*] posted on 27-1-2007 at 06:47


When you use the term complex you sort of lost me. What exactly do you mean by complex? Do you have specific patents or material to site an examples from - as I can't see those two salts as primary material in themselves what-so--ever and 1700 is seriously slow.



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Levi
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[*] posted on 27-1-2007 at 07:05


Hmm... I heard something about a pesticide being used with urea to form an explosive of sorts but I was under the impression that it was sodium chlorate/perchlorate or similar. I don't think such an explosive has much utility except for dubious purposes though.



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godchem
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[*] posted on 17-2-2007 at 01:46


If you melt together NaNO3 (sodium nitrate) + urea, you will get NaN3 (sodium azide). It will not pure NaN3, but you can purified it. And you can make lead azide (Pb(N3)2), if you mix pure NaN3 with pure lead acetate, or lead nitrate, and recristall in water.



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[*] posted on 17-2-2007 at 02:05


Azide isn't that simple.



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nitro-genes
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[*] posted on 17-2-2007 at 11:32


Urea nitrate is not very sensitive for impact or friction and is defenitely not a primary. I do remember that nitrourea was pretty sensitive and I've seen NU + 20% KNO3 beeing mentioned as potential use as initiating explosives...
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 17-2-2007 at 12:33


Quote:
Originally posted by godchem
If you melt together NaNO3 (sodium nitrate) + urea, you will get NaN3 (sodium azide). It will not pure NaN3, but you can purified it.


Are you sure that this is correct ?

Can you provide further details concerning this reaction ,
any conditions for the synthesis , and/or references ?
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Nitrojet
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[*] posted on 17-2-2007 at 13:14


I am wondering if Azide can be prepared that simple why the explosives manufacturers all around the world have been ever wasting their time and money for the much more cumbersome Sodium Amide/N2O process in Azide preparations?!!
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 17-2-2007 at 13:34


I am *very* skeptical of that reaction route ,
precisely the reason that I am asking for
further details ......because it seems to be one
of those online chemistry " urban legends "
that is 100% pure fiction , requiring no further
purification .

[Edited on 17-2-2007 by Rosco Bodine]
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Eclectic
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[*] posted on 17-2-2007 at 17:19


Especially since a mix of ammonium nitrate, urea, and only about 18% H2O is a common "liquid nitrogen" sprayable agricultural fertilizer and is not known for exploding. It also makes an excellent refrigerant when you add the water.
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Nitrojet
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wink.gif posted on 17-2-2007 at 22:13


Historians would be the most frantic if such a precedure for Azide synthesis goes working. They have to rewrite history of explosives, presumably putting Azides chapter before Gunpowder era! ;)
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[*] posted on 5-1-2008 at 19:02


It occurs to me that the salt of sodium bisulfate with urea would metathetically
react with sodium nitrate to form urea nitrate. If done in alcohol, because of the
drying power of the resulting sodium sulfate, it might even go all the way to form
nitrourea. Not a primary though.

H2NCONH2.HNaSO4 + NaNO3 -> Na2SO4 + H2NCONH2.HNO3 -> H2NCONHNO2 + H2O

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[*] posted on 6-1-2008 at 06:20


How to make H2NCONH2.HNaSO4 ?



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YeOldeImpurities
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[*] posted on 17-1-2008 at 11:14
sodium nitrate/urea complex


"Urea Sodium Nitrate" see PATR 2700 U104. I had book К. Сулайманкулов: „Соединения карбамида с неорганическими солями“ 1971 (Compounds of urea with inorganic salts by K. Sulaimankulov), there was mentioned NaNO3.CO(NH2)2 complex salt and some other nitrate/urea complexes (besides of calurea also AgNO3.CO(NH2)2 and Zn(NO3)2.4CO(NH2)2.2H2O)
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[*] posted on 17-1-2008 at 11:25


sulaymankulov, sowdineniya karbamida s neorganitseskimy solyami.

that`s the best I can transcribe that, the 1`st word looks like a name, then "Sodium carbamide with.......

*sigh* I give up :P




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[*] posted on 17-1-2008 at 11:41


Соединения=compounds
карбамида=of urea
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Zinc
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[*] posted on 17-1-2008 at 12:12


What is PATR?



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YeOldeImpurities
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[*] posted on 17-1-2008 at 14:35


Encyclopedia of explosives and related items - PATR 2700

urea sodium nitrate.jpg - 10kB
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[*] posted on 17-1-2008 at 14:56


Thank you. Does it say how to make it?



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gregxy
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[*] posted on 18-1-2008 at 14:33


The formula is for a nitrite not a nitrate. But it probably does
not work (certainly not as a primary) or by now everyone would know about it.
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[*] posted on 23-1-2008 at 11:48


Zinc, there is nothing about making it but I guess that it can be easily obtained by mixing water solutions of urea and sodium nitrite (the compound from PATR) or nitrate (compound from the russian book).
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[*] posted on 28-1-2008 at 07:43


Nitrates and nitrites are not the same materials and the results from either will also not be the same.
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[*] posted on 31-1-2008 at 22:43


I know but important is result. Both sodium urea nitrite and nitrate seem to be cheap improvised high explosives, maybe good replacements for urea nitrate if someone have no acids at hand.
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[*] posted on 5-1-2009 at 11:29
Urea Nitrite ?


Urea Nitrite ( if it forms at all ) in aqueous solution is unstable and decomposes
straight away, thus (NH2)2CO•HNO2 -> CO2 + H2O + N2 + NH3 . The Ammonia
thus formed immediately reacts with a second mol of Nitrous acid and also
decomposes thus NH4NO2 -> 2 H2O + N2. Overall one mol of Urea destroys
two mols of nitrous acid , the reason this is used to purify nitric acid.
(NH2)2CO + 2 HNO2 -> CO2 + 3 H2O + 2 N2
A question I have is whether anhydrous Urea Nitrite can be formed at all.
Urea hydrochloride may metathetically interact with Sodium Nitrite thus
(H2N)2CO•HCl + NaNO2 -> NaCl + (H2N)2CO•HNO2
The choice of solvent is key , MeOH meets the anhydrous conditions.

Urea alone solvates , 35 gms per 100 gms MeOH @ ~ 40 ºC
the solubility of the hydrochloride should be similar
Urea Hydrochloride
White to pale-yellow deliquescent crystals.
Freely soluble in water and alcohol; moderately soluble in Chloroform
soluble in DMSO: ~ 26 gm/L ,

4.43 gms NaNO2 per 100 gms MeOH @ ~ 19.5 ºC

NaCl is practically insoluble in alcohol , and the urea nitrite , if formed ,
should remain in solution and readily obtained by chilling.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

Similarly Urea Nitrate crystals are insoluble in cold water, but soluble in hot.

Also related, Nitrourea may be obtained in a pure condition by recrystallization
from ether, benzene, or chloroform, in which solvents it does not dearrange.

.
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[*] posted on 24-4-2009 at 23:15


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Quote:
Originally posted by godchem
If you melt together NaNO3 (sodium nitrate) + urea, you will get NaN3 (sodium azide). It will not pure NaN3, but you can purified it.


Are you sure that this is correct ?

Can you provide further details concerning this reaction ,
any conditions for the synthesis , and/or references ?


I found this file on another forum. My friend said he could made it this way. I'm not sure this process is correct.

Attachment: Synthesis_of_azides_without_hydrazine.zip (17kB)
This file has been downloaded 948 times





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