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Author: Subject: Fuel-Air Explosives
Vomaturge
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[*] posted on 27-12-2021 at 18:42


AJKOER has been posting about it off and on since forever. He probably read somewhere that it makes things burn hotter than normal air and has since assumed that it beats ClF3, N2O4, liquid O2, HNO3, H2O2, elemental halogens, inorganic chlorates/perchlorates/nitrates, CuO, PTFE, Fe2O3, CaSO4, S8, H2O, CO2, and every other oxidizer we could dream of.

Not that it matters, since the other part of his idea failed to take into account solubility and concentration. None of the materials listed above would do anything amazing if added to diesel fuel and iron shavings in a <5% concentration.




I now have a YouTube channel. So far just electronics and basic High Voltage experimentation, but I'll hopefully have some chemistry videos soon.
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[*] posted on 28-12-2021 at 03:01


@Mineman:

N2O makes fuels burn hotter than in air mainly because it is 33% oxygen compared to 20% in air (it also has a positive heat of formation). It is used in some racing cars.



[Edited on 28-12-2021 by Microtek]
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[*] posted on 8-3-2022 at 00:50


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzD_Ie6nyb4&t=470s

Bulspike TB grenade launcher with 700 grams of the said TB polymer bonded mixture:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/prep.202100...

[Edited on 8-3-2022 by simply RED]




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[*] posted on 8-3-2022 at 04:27


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzD_Ie6nyb4&t=470s

Bulspike TB grenade launcher with 700 grams of the said TB polymer bonded mixture:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/prep.202100...

[Edited on 8-3-2022 by simply RED]


I saw your paper published recently. Congrats! How does this compare to the thermobarics used in the TOR-1, I am guessing it is far superior? What would be the result if you replaced the aluminum with boron?
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[*] posted on 8-3-2022 at 06:29


By the shape of the warhead I can guess that TOS-1 uses thermobaric slurry (IPN or LD-70 based, see the publication) and not a solid state TB mix. So yes, this is far superior.
It can be made to work with boron too (maybe a little better), but the price will be higher. H-TBX was developed out of necessity, to be a multi ton product. So the fun science remains to be done in the future.

I see the commercial for the grenade launcher for the first time, just collecting all videos about the product here. It was in 2014 that VMZ got a testing license, we have not heard from them ever since.


[Edited on 8-3-2022 by simply RED]




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[*] posted on 8-3-2022 at 07:21


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
By the shape of the warhead I can guess that TOS-1 uses thermobaric slurry (IPN or LD-70 based, see the publication) and not a solid state TB mix. So yes, this is far superior.
It can be made to work with boron too (maybe a little better), but the price will be higher. H-TBX was developed out of necessity, to be a multi ton product. So the fun science remains to be done in the future.

I see the commercial for the grenade launcher for the first time, just collecting all videos about the product here. It was in 2014 that VMZ got a testing license, we have not heard from them ever since.


[Edited on 8-3-2022 by simply RED]


Ok! Thank you for response! I hope your making money off this! Your formulation deserves to be recognized! It’s an honor for us, for you displaying your work here. Would boron be the absolute best metal? I know it has combustion efficiency issues but nothing comes close in terms of kj/cc… other than the toxic Be. My understanding is boron carbide provides nearly as much energy but at a faction of the cost of B?
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[*] posted on 8-3-2022 at 07:54


I have no idea, really no idea. This work was done in extreme hurry, no time for extensive science at all.



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[*] posted on 8-3-2022 at 09:01


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
I hope your making money off this! Your formulation deserves to be recognized!


We do not. But the people who illegally produce it in Bulgaria make more than enough, because they load & export illegally munitions to US, Israel, Turkey, etc.

Clip from Armenia & Azerbaijan conflict. Turkish and Israelis drones loaded illegally in Bulgaria with our obsolete H – TBX composition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2Im4XEeMS8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiiXn9KoxY0&feature=emb_...

We have tried to inform US, Israel and Turkey that they buy illegal & obsolete production, but we have been thrown out from every embassy of these very same countries. We have direct talk with representatives of the Pentagon about this. We have send official letters about the situation to every government institution in Bulgaria almost half year ago, but so far no one is willing to meet with us or even recognize us as owners of the technology, despite the publication, the two patents in Bulgaria and one resent in South Korea.

Welcome to the brave new world of science and business!
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[*] posted on 8-3-2022 at 23:59


Should say that not everything is black and white. It is quite often brown...



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[*] posted on 9-3-2022 at 00:27


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
Should say that not everything is black and white. It is quite often brown...


Thanks man. You cleared up the whole shitty situation in just one sentence...

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[*] posted on 9-3-2022 at 04:09


I am really sorry guys! It’s a genius invention! That video was very impressive as well!
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[*] posted on 14-5-2022 at 06:02


A new video.

TB-7V (handheld rpg)
https://youtu.be/w8jUI6lSBUA?t=99
http://vmz.bg/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/TB-7V_low.pdf




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[*] posted on 14-5-2022 at 16:49


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
A new video.

TB-7V (handheld rpg)
https://youtu.be/w8jUI6lSBUA?t=99
http://vmz.bg/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/TB-7V_low.pdf


That is amazing! Wow! It’s an honor to have you on this forum!
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[*] posted on 14-5-2022 at 21:51


As internet remembers, this is quite a good place to collect all the videos in one place. They may be interesting for the auditory to see as well.
By the way, latest simulations performed by us show that TBX can be made 2 times more "powerful" (pressure, impulse) than this on the video and 5-10 times more "effective" (or destructive) (pressure, impulse, heat, fragmentation, armor penetration and action on optico-electronics).

[Edited on 15-5-2022 by simply RED]




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[*] posted on 16-5-2022 at 00:28


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
As internet remembers, this is quite a good place to collect all the videos in one place. They may be interesting for the auditory to see as well.
By the way, latest simulations performed by us show that TBX can be made 2 times more "powerful" (pressure, impulse) than this on the video and 5-10 times more "effective" (or destructive) (pressure, impulse, heat, fragmentation, armor penetration and action on optico-electronics).

[Edited on 15-5-2022 by simply RED]


How can it be made to be 2 times as powerful?

I have to be a skeptic and highly doubt 5-10times more amour effects, as that’s simply not how the Gurney equations work. Along with heat…how could you possibly take a mixture from 20kj/gram to 100kj per gram?
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[*] posted on 16-5-2022 at 04:59


Armor penetration from direct hit not 10 times, but comparable to the best shaped charges. From a close hit - 10 times! Fragmentation comparable to HMX munitions. Pressure, impulse, heat, and action on optico-electronics - 10 times !

Yes, this is done (TRL 8), if we manage to industrialize will write an article on how it's made.

Measuring parameters on an empty field, is like measuring the voltage of a battery without load. With the load added, things are much different.

[Edited on 16-5-2022 by simply RED]




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[*] posted on 16-5-2022 at 05:10


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
Armor penetration from direct hit not 10 times, but comparable to the best shaped charges. From a close hit - 10 times! Fragmentation comparable to HMX munitions. Pressure, impulse, heat, and action on optico-electronics - 10 times !

Yes, this is done (TRL 8), if we manage to industrialize will write an article on how it's made.


Can you highlight what the formulation change is? If not publicly perhaps via personal message as we have communicated before?

It seems your implying your using a metal powder with larger heat out put and using an explosive that has HMX VOD with inserts (metal powders)?
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[*] posted on 16-5-2022 at 05:27


First, in 2013, we developed the universal code (software) to calculate enhanced blast explosives. Gov. sponsored labs could not develop it with billions of spending and hiring tens of professors. They all end up stealing the money anyway...
It is very difficult of course to enhance the energy of TBX explosive more than 30 MJ/kg. For further improving power, the blast wave has to be made to dissipate slower than x^-3.
A book must be written on this, not enough place to discuss it here.


[Edited on 16-5-2022 by simply RED]




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[*] posted on 16-5-2022 at 13:58


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
First, in 2013, we developed the universal code (software) to calculate enhanced blast explosives. Gov. sponsored labs could not develop it with billions of spending and hiring tens of professors. They all end up stealing the money anyway...
It is very difficult of course to enhance the energy of TBX explosive more than 30 MJ/kg. For further improving power, the blast wave has to be made to dissipate slower than x^-3.
A book must be written on this, not enough place to discuss it here.

But how can you get fragmentation compared to HMX? The inserts at 30MJ/kg will reduce both the VOD and gaseous output and thus the gurney velocity.
[Edited on 16-5-2022 by simply RED]
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[*] posted on 16-5-2022 at 15:42


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
First, in 2013, we developed the universal code (software) to calculate enhanced blast explosives. Gov. sponsored labs could not develop it with billions of spending and hiring tens of professors. They all end up stealing the money anyway...
It is very difficult of course to enhance the energy of TBX explosive more than 30 MJ/kg. For further improving power, the blast wave has to be made to dissipate slower than x^-3.
A book must be written on this, not enough place to discuss it here.


Hold up! 30MJ/kg… I thought we were talking about per liter, I made mistakes up above then. How do you even achieve 30MJ/L… that is the same value as PURE aluminum powder. Without boron or beryllium… I see this as impossible.

[Edited on 16-5-2022 by simply RED]
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[*] posted on 16-5-2022 at 22:14


Aluminum has a molar mass of 26,982 g/mol, a density of 2.7 g/cc and Al2O3 has a heat of formation of -1675 kJ/mol. That means that oxidizing one kg of Al to Al2O3 releases just over 31 MJ. However, if we are talking volume basis, one liter of solid Al (2.7 kg) will release 83.8 MJ. There are some entropy effects also, and at combustion temperatures they are significant, so the real numbers will be less.
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[*] posted on 16-5-2022 at 23:25


TNT / RDX / all high explosives are almost useless to create blast wave as it dissipates at ~x^-3. Any measure to make this dissipation more linear increases air blast capabilities many times over (like 5-10 times). 30 MJ/kg is too much, just said it as an example, we tested with 20 MJ/kg and it works fine. Yes, kilogram. Density is 2.1-2.5 g/cc depending on modification.

TNT/RDX munitions are like - a big hole in the ground and 3 meters away, the target stays untouched. Just watch the tens of videos that are available now. Also watch the videos of the Bayraktar TB2 in Karabakh (TB munitions). And even better - on the Harpy drones again in Karabakh (also thermobaric). See what I am talking about.

For big calibers, there is a need for very optimized enhanced blast explosive in order to have any air blast, otherwise you just make holes in the ground. Not just very optimized but based on physical principles that allow to reduce this x^-3. Detonation above ground also does not help with the standard munitions. Hope this explains.

Also, the effectiveness of a warhead depends on the factors I discussed above. Increase of one factor increases the effectiveness in a non-linear manner. For example, we see the same damage on the targets from the 20 kg MAM-L Bayraktar munition (10 kg TB explosive) and from a 100 kg aviation bomb (50 kg TNT). And the explosive in the MAM-L is only about 2-2.5 times better than TNT (measuring on an open field without targets). Yes, this also needs an article to be written on, with precise numbers and coefficients.

The explosive in the MAM-L munition releases 16 MJ/kg energy, but only 12 MJ/kg of them "fast enough" to generate air blast - and generates like 2-2.5 times TNT equivalent. See how much physics is involved.

[Edited on 17-5-2022 by simply RED]




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[*] posted on 17-5-2022 at 01:11


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
TNT / RDX / all high explosives are almost useless to create blast wave as it dissipates at ~x^-3. Any measure to make this dissipation more linear increases air blast capabilities many times over (like 5-10 times). 30 MJ/kg is too much, just said it as an example, we tested with 20 MJ/kg and it works fine. Yes, kilogram. Density is 2.1-2.5 g/cc depending on modification.

TNT/RDX munitions are like - a big hole in the ground and 3 meters away, the target stays untouched. Just watch the tens of videos that are available now. Also watch the videos of the Bayraktar TB2 in Karabakh (TB munitions). And even better - on the Harpy drones again in Karabakh (also thermobaric). See what I am talking about.

For big calibers, there is a need for very optimized enhanced blast explosive in order to have any air blast, otherwise you just make holes in the ground. Not just very optimized but based on physical principles that allow to reduce this x^-3. Detonation above ground also does not help with the standard munitions. Hope this explains.

Also, the effectiveness of a warhead depends on the factors I discussed above. Increase of one factor increases the effectiveness in a non-linear manner. For example, we see the same damage on the targets from the 20 kg MAM-L Bayraktar munition (10 kg TB explosive) and from a 100 kg aviation bomb (50 kg TNT). And the explosive in the MAM-L is only about 2-2.5 times better than TNT (measuring on an open field without targets). Yes, this also needs an article to be written on, with precise numbers and coefficients.

The explosive in the MAM-L munition releases 16 MJ/kg energy, but only 12 MJ/kg of them "fast enough" to generate air blast - and generates like 2-2.5 times TNT equivalent. See how much physics is involved.

[Edited on 17-5-2022 by simply RED]


I have been keeping up with the current conflict like a hawk. I didn’t know Turkey was using thermobarics in that munition. Most countries are far behind on warhead technology. No wonder why the TB-2 are so destructive. Can I ask what formula would produce 20MJ/kg, only thing I can think of is a mixture of boron powder, silicon cure, potassium perchlorate and HMX.

What is microtek referring to when he says due to high temperatures will be less? I really wish someone like you could take me under your wing and teach me. I have been reading everything I can find, yet you and microtek bring nuances I never knew of. How can the energy release of aluminum change based on the temperature of the blast wave? I hope to some day be able to make the contributions RED and Microtek have made…

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[*] posted on 17-5-2022 at 03:41


MineMan you have to go to university and study physical chemistry and thermodynamics. There you will find all answers to those questions, again it is impossible to be explained here. Go study "Chemistry" in USA / western Europe or Eastern Europe, does not matter, you will have enough of this.
A hint:
https://wikieducator.org/The1stLawofThermodynamicsLesson5

You watched the videos and could not figure out it is TB? Yes, at that time, loaded exactly with this (H-TBX) - in Bulgaria. Yes, unbelievably destructive, completely not correlating with field testing with piezo sensors.

[Edited on 17-5-2022 by simply RED]




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[*] posted on 17-5-2022 at 11:10


Quote: Originally posted by simply RED  
MineMan you have to go to university and study physical chemistry and thermodynamics. There you will find all answers to those questions, again it is impossible to be explained here. Go study "Chemistry" in USA / western Europe or Eastern Europe, does not matter, you will have enough of this.
A hint:
https://wikieducator.org/The1stLawofThermodynamicsLesson5

You watched the videos and could not figure out it is TB? Yes, at that time, loaded exactly with this (H-TBX) - in Bulgaria. Yes, unbelievably destructive, completely not correlating with field testing with piezo sensors.

[Edited on 17-5-2022 by simply RED]


Thank you! Unfortunately going back to university is not an option. Maybe writing code for a year or two would be better? I will watch what you linked. I have my own formulations… I hope to share sometime. But it is not as economical as yours. But again, there are only a few elements with high heats per volume :). There are new oxidizers such as periodate which are very dense and probably work better than perchlorate if we are willing to pay.
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