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bromo
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 00:16
Need to know what this synthesis does


I found this synthesis:


Quote:

Add 3 grams of Paraformaldehyde. Add 20ml aqueous hydrogen chloride. add 12,2 grams of Methylenedioxybenzene. Keep the temperature at 0°C and stir for at least 4 hours. Extract the aqueous layer three times with methylene chloride (10ml portions) Finally, dry with MdSO4



It seems to be pretty simple, can someone tell me what the final result will be?
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Assured Fish
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 00:42


This is not a drug forum, i am tempted to answer but i know better.

Fuck off and never come back, let this thread go to detritus.
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bromo
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 00:49


Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish  
This is not a drug forum, i am tempted to answer but i know better.

Fuck off and never come back, let this thread go to detritus.


This is not a post related to drugs, if you don't like it then you can fuck off yourself, stick to your own things if you don't like to help.
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Assured Fish
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 00:55


Dont bull shit me, while it is true that Methylenedioxybenzene does have other uses outside of the production of amphetamines, it is more than evident that you lack the chemical understanding or appreciation of this subject to comprehend these uses.

The product of the reaction is a direct precursor to Mr shulgin god child.
Albeit not one often used.

If i am wrong then please enlighten us on how you intend to use the product?
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Cryolite.
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 00:56


Quote: Originally posted by bromo  
Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish  
This is not a drug forum, i am tempted to answer but i know better.

Fuck off and never come back, let this thread go to detritus.


This is not a post related to drugs, if you don't like it then you can fuck off yourself, stick to your own things if you don't like to help.


Ok pray tell kind sir, what sort of outcome are you hoping to achieve by combining benzodioxole, hydrochloric acid, and formaldehyde?
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bromo
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 00:59


Quote: Originally posted by Cryolite.  
Quote: Originally posted by bromo  
Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish  
This is not a drug forum, i am tempted to answer but i know better.

Fuck off and never come back, let this thread go to detritus.


This is not a post related to drugs, if you don't like it then you can fuck off yourself, stick to your own things if you don't like to help.


Ok pray tell kind sir, what sort of outcome are you hoping to achieve by combining benzodioxole, hydrochloric acid, and formaldehyde?


I don't know, that's the reason I posted this, to find out what I got sent!
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bromo
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 01:00


Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish  
Dont bull shit me, while it is true that Methylenedioxybenzene does have other uses outside of the production of amphetamines, it is more than evident that you lack the chemical understanding or appreciation of this subject to comprehend these uses.

The product of the reaction is a direct precursor to Mr shulgin god child.
Albeit not one often used.

If i am wrong then please enlighten us on how you intend to use the product?


You do realize this is in the "Beginnings" section right?
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Cryolite.
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 01:06


Quote: Originally posted by bromo  
Quote: Originally posted by Cryolite.  
Quote: Originally posted by bromo  
Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish  
This is not a drug forum, i am tempted to answer but i know better.

Fuck off and never come back, let this thread go to detritus.


This is not a post related to drugs, if you don't like it then you can fuck off yourself, stick to your own things if you don't like to help.


Ok pray tell kind sir, what sort of outcome are you hoping to achieve by combining benzodioxole, hydrochloric acid, and formaldehyde?


I don't know, that's the reason I posted this, to find out what I got sent!


Care to posit a theory?
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Assured Fish
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 01:07


If you are speaking the truth then im sure that you can tell by our tone that it is directly related to illegal drugs.
Therefore it is against forum policy for us to answer or for it to be asked by a new member.
Go away and read a book, perhaps you may enlighten yourself but for now its obvious that you lack a proper grasp on chemistry to be here.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 01:28




[file]62095[/file]

20620763_1653695697995075_4567656598263492823_n.jpg - 54kB




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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 01:35


I actually had almost that exact conversation with my friend. I spilled some NaCO3 on the floor and he starts joking that I dropped the base. So I was like "guess I'll just have to DUBSTEP over it!"

I guess you had to be there.

edit: as for the original synthesis posted here, it seems way too easy to be a real formylation reaction. Anyone think it might work with catechol? A group I'm in wanted to synthesize dopamine for a Youtube video.

[Edited on 10/21/17 by Melgar]




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JJay
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 01:40


Isn't NaCO3 an oxidizing acid, though?



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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 01:50


Oh and I was actually wondering if this would work with catechol (isn't this a chloromethylation)?

I suspect it would be messy and low-yielding and require a catalyst, but I'm still trying to work out why (whether) the 4- and 5- positions would be preferred due to the electrons on the oxygens.




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Assured Fish
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 01:51


Melgar i don't see why it wouldn't work for catechol, though im not sure how you would go about extending the chain to the phenethylamine from there.

If for some reason the formaldehyde were to in some way react with the dihydroxy groups then as a last resort the benzodioxole may act as better starting point and then you would simply reflux the final product in HBr to break the methylene dioxy bridge.

Edit: the reaction doesn't need a catalyst but it doesn't like too much water present, hence the use of paraformaldehyde.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=11238

Edit#2: I didn't think this through properly, the formaldehyde would almost definitely attack the 3 position as well as the 4 position, without that methoxy bridge to deactivate the ring.

[Edited on 21-10-2017 by Assured Fish]

[Edited on 21-10-2017 by Assured Fish]
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 02:02


Once you have the aldehyde you could do a Henry condensation with nitromethane and a suitable base (e.g ammonium acetate) and reduce the resulting nitrostyrene with sodium borohydride or perhaps even a dissolving metal reduction to obtain the dopamine.

You could probably link the 3,4-hydroxybenzyl chloride with formyl cuprate or something.



[Edited on 21-10-2017 by JJay]




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Assured Fish
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 02:09


JJay but the product wouldn't be an aldehyde it would be a benzyl chloride.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 02:11


Yeah, I know.



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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 02:45


Setting aside the question of the aromatic bit, and its potential uses...

paraformaldehyde and HCl will make this stuff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(chloromethyl)_ether

Which isn't nice.
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 02:50


Wait i was wrong about the formaldehyde attacking the 3 position.
[file]62097[/file]
I had to see this visually so I drew this up and if its correct then the anion would never form on the 3 position and the only place for electrophilic attack is the 4 position.

Edit: unionized im pretty sure ethers require harsher dehydrating conditions to form.

[Edited on 21-10-2017 by Assured Fish]

catechol resonance structure.png - 2kB
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 03:03


Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish  


I had to see this visually so I drew this up and if its correct then the anion would never form on the 3 position and the only place for electrophilic attack is the 4 position.



I'm glad you posted this because I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I don't see why the 4/5-position is a particularly good place for electrophilic attack, though, even though it is better than the 3/6-position.

Oh and you have one too many electrons. Say, it makes sense now :D

[Edited on 21-10-2017 by JJay]




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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 03:09


Im confident that this has been performed without a catalyst before, it has certainly been talked about enough.
http://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/methods/000228619.html
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=11238
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/piperonal.n...

This would seem to indicate that its been done before atleast, as to the formation of Bis(chloromethyl) ether; the following stated
"Environmental studies show that, under ambient conditions, (4) formation from CH2O/HCl in moist air is insignificant"
from: http://reag.paperplane.io/00001445.htm#8
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 03:12


It's the Blanc chloromethylation. But he's missing the usual ZnCl2 catalyst. I think it might work anyway but I'm not sure.

The reason it's not popular is because the rxn conditions can generate bis(chloromethyl)ether, an extremely potent carcinogen which causes oat cell cancer. The rxn should never be performed without a strong fume hood. (EDIT: see AssuredFish's post, this may be wrong)

As to why you "got sent" this reaction, OP, I think it might be because you are in over your head. The rxn product can be used as an intermediate for the production of "empathogenic" recreational drugs, so perhaps it is better not t discuss the rxn further unless a purpose can be given.

[Edited on 21-10-2017 by clearly_not_atara]
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 05:27


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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 06:34


Quote: Originally posted by Assured Fish  
.. as to the formation of Bis(chloromethyl) ether; the following stated
"Environmental studies show that, under ambient conditions, (4) formation from CH2O/HCl in moist air is insignificant"
from: http://reag.paperplane.io/00001445.htm#8


I doubt that the OP's intention was to evaporate the various reactants into streams of moist air and then mix them. So the rate of formation in most air may not be the most important factor.

Bis CME is really quite nasty. "acceptable" exposures in industry are of the order of a part per billion in air.
Benzene- a well known carcinogen is tolerated at levels a thousand times higher.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/eh40.pdf

I'm not saying that the yield is good; I'm saying there's probably a better combination of reagents and, if there isn't, be careful.
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[*] posted on 21-10-2017 at 08:17


Quote: Originally posted by bromo  
I found this synthesis:


Quote:

Extract the aqueous layer three times with methylene chloride (10ml portions) Finally, dry with MdSO4



It seems to be pretty simple, can someone tell me what the final result will be?


Sure can.

You'll be dead from radiation poisoning.
Try picking a drying agent with a longer 1/2 life.



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