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Author: Subject: Offtopic from Advice for a 15 year old interested in amateur chemistry?
DraconicAcid
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Offtopic from Advice for a 15 year old interested in amateur chemistry?

 Quote: Originally posted by Quaff Metals chemistry is really cool, you can ...make homeopathic vitamins...

?? If you want to make homeopathic *anything*, just pour yourself a glass of tapwater, succuss it against a leather-bound book, and call it a day. But why bother?

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Quaff
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Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid
 Quote: Originally posted by Quaff Metals chemistry is really cool, you can ...make homeopathic vitamins...

?? If you want to make homeopathic *anything*, just pour yourself a glass of tapwater, succuss it against a leather-bound book, and call it a day. But why bother?

Even though known for over 65 years, I still find it fascinating that Echinochrome A is biologically active at a concentration of just one part per two billions in water (Kuhn and Wallenfels in Fieser, 1944 edition, pp 753).

And that only a single molecule of crocin is required to determine sex activity in C. augamentos F. simplex and Chlarnydomonas genus of algae. Wow.

Professor Gilbert Smith in 1947 reported the production of motility in certain plant sex cells by use of only one part crocin to 250,000,000,000 parts of water !!

And that heparin is activein suspending blood coagulation in amounts so minute that there is no method to detect its presence !!

And that acetyl choline renews suspended contractions in the intestinal muscle in guinea pigs in a diluiton of one part per billion in water !! (Karrer p. 239 1947 ed)

And that three micrograms of vitamin B-12 is an effective therapeutic dose, 0.01 millimicrograms giving a definite groth response to bacteria.

Cool stuff, that strongly suggests initiation of a cascade of peroxidation chain reactions, given these materials are all quinones having relatively high OR potentials.

I used to think homeopathy was bunk, that was before !!
Diachrynic
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But, you know that Avogadros' Limit is D23?

Then you know, beyond that you don't even have a chance of actually having a single molecule. (It's worse than lottery.)

Besides, most of the stuff that gets diluted (or succussed >.> is ordinary stuff - like table salt (Natrium chloratum), phosphorous (Phosphorus) or lead (Plumbum metallicum).

This is ridiculous.

It gets worse though. Look at the things which supposedly make the sympthoms worse (NaCl):

"sun, heat, having sex, hate against society, overexertion of eyes, mind, voice etc., full moon, music"

It is hard to imagine something more random. I'm not making this up. http://www.naturheilkunde-essen.de/homoeopathie_natrium_muri... (It is a german page)

Homoepathy is just taking advantage of people that want to believe in something. (The profit 2013 was 2 billion dollars worldwide!)

And I know it doesn't work because I took it for a long time (had to) and it didn't work at all!

Studies show the same. In fact, there are so many of them there are meta-analyses everywhere.

http://edzardernst.com/2017/04/new-meta-analysis-confirms-th...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK68085/
https://scilogs.spektrum.de/detritus/gesamtschau-der-studien...

I'm sorry, I'm ranting, but if I dislike something it is homeopathy.

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Quaff
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I agree, like the 12 tissue remedies of Schuessler, basically simple inorganic salts.

But, given what we know about free radical chemistry and how cascades of oxidations can be initiated to perpetuate themselves, I'm joined in with believing that tiny amounts of certain organic molecules of high redox potential can literally make wonderful things happen.

Back in the day I studied and worked some with a renowned fellow named Boris D. Kahan at Case Western's center for electrochemical sciences. All the water we used was triple-distilled, the apparati being all pyrex. The last little pipe that delivered the triple distilled water to its storage reservoir... had to be replaced every other month because it corroded at its elbow, every time. I'm not bs'ing. There is quite a bit about water most folk take for granted. Given this discussion is for a 15 year old, lets not stray too far and to keep on topic I just suggest to the 15 year old to maybe look into the magical and amazing properties of something most chemists take for granted - the properties of.. Water !!

speaking of geniuses, I invite those interested to read the publications of William F Koch, PhD, MD, who himself studied under the father of free radical chemistry himself, Dr. Moses Gomberg. I suggest to all good chemists to investigate and read every publication you can that is available at www.williamfkoch.com because there is a mountain of gold there.

I used to also dismiss "homeopathy" as bunk, but let us note that the medical system in Europe recognizes it, and will even pay public funds for a patient to be treated homeopathically !! Are they st*pid ? I don't know, but witness the Heel company in Deutschland selling "carbonylgruppen" ampuoles for injection with much success, yet the same benzoquinone diluted to one part per million is illegal in the USA for a licensed physician to administer. Why ?? Many cases of metabolic diseases have been historically documented to go away, even in advanced stages. You can find the patient histories at the above website maintained by Dr. Koch's family. This is, literally, life-saving information for some.

There is much we still don't know. If anyone wants to ever discuss the Koch material, I've read it all. Maybe on another thread, but for the young 15 year old, I suggest to develop your analytical skills to think differently than what is taught in the schools. Look at Baltimore and other school systems where the graduates can't even do simple math. Imagine if they just did away with education..... in that scenario, somethign like 10% of the students would be inquisitive enough by themselves to learn more than the record / statistics of the current system shows. What I'm saying is, the current education systems are actually more detrimental than if they did not exist at all, for some of the population. So, to the 15 year old, I suggest to not let yourself be blinded by what others try to ram into your head. Eat a good diet, avoid dietary toxins, and follow your common sense.

mit freundlichen Gruessen,
Herr Quaff

[Edited on 16-11-2017 by Quaff]
Quaff
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Let me also refer you to Wagner, Kreher, and Jurcic in their paper in Arzneimittel-Forschung 38(1):273-275 (1988)entitled "In vitro stimulation of human granulocytes and lymphocytes by pico-and femtogram quantities of cytostatic agents"

The gist of it, is that there is a range that is between the pico and femto dilution range at which cytostatic activity is observed using some molecules of high redox potentil, but at less dilution, i.e., stronger solutions, the activity is nil. Stated another way, benzoquinone can actually cause cancers at gram per liter levels, whereas when diluted to part per billion, can in a high percentage of cases cause remissions of many ailments, including what some call "cancer" Given that 1:3 men and 1:2 women are projected to experience such a metabolic disease at some point in their lives, this information is Darwinian, those who learn and apply it will survive, and those who don't, wont. The contemporaries of Gomberg dismissed him but later he is accepted. Its that same old Schopenauer cycle of rejection, ridicule and finally acceptance. This is a fascinating subject, much to digest for those initially starting out on it, it seems overwhelming. Once you're through the material a few times, you get the "aha" moment. After that, life is peachy because the fear of the unknown is gone. Hab guten abend
DraconicAcid
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 Quote: Originally posted by Quaff Its that same old Schopenauer cycle of rejection, ridicule and finally acceptance.

Yeah, they laughed at Einstein, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

Homeopathy is trash, and the fact that people spend billions on it is not a testament to homeopathy, but a testament to human gullibility.

Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
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Diachrynic
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 Quote: Originally posted by Quaff Back in the day I studied and worked some with a renowned fellow named Boris D. Kahan at Case Western's center for electrochemical sciences.

Either I can't use Google or this guy isn't as renowned as said.

Also, it isn't looking good for William F. Koch either...

 Quote: In the 1940s he marketed glyoxylide, a drug which he claimed would cure cancer. The claims were never scientifically proved, and he was considered a charlatan by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA). [...] In the early 1940s, Koch announced his discovery of glyoxylide, a miracle drug that would cure a long list of diseases, even when administered at one part per trillion dilution. He sold the drug through an entity called the Christian Medical Research League. He never revealed his process for the manufacture of glyoxylide, and there never was any evidence that glyoxylide in any amount had any therapeutic effect. Analysis showed it to be distilled water. Over 3,000 health practitioners in the U.S. paid $25 per ampoule for Koch's treatment and charged patients as much as$300 for a single injection.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Frederick_Koch

 Quote: Koch's treatment was one of the greatest medical hoaxes of all time. Analysis showed it to be distilled water of extraordinary purity. but Koch claimed his medicine contained I part of a chemical called glyoxylide per 1 trillion parts of water. [...] There was no evidence that glyoxylide in any amount had any therapeutic effect.

https://www.cancertreatmentwatch.org/q/janssen.shtml

...so I'm not going to read the dozens upon dozens of papers on that website.

@DraconicAcid

Well put.

I think the biggest danger of homeopathy lies in the fact that some people choose it over an actual treatment and get serious health issues. This includes children that can't decide for themselves.

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Quaff
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My stage IV metastic friend was given 4-8 months to live, 3 years ago. An anecdotal case perhaps, but to me it matters not what anyone calls it, because she remains breathing and walking Before calling homeopathy "trash" you have the opportunity to digest the teachings of Dr. Koch, or you also have the opportunity to ignore it. I laugh at the medical system in the US, and the clowns who buy into the (barnyard explicative). You all chemistry people have the ability to pick up and understand it, it is based on fact - free radical chemistry, plain and simple. Never let your schooling interfere with your education.
Quaff
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Quote: Originally posted by Diachrynic
 Quote: Originally posted by Quaff Back in the day I studied and worked some with a renowned fellow named Boris D. Kahan at Case Western's center for electrochemical sciences.

Either I can't use Google or this guy isn't as renowned as said.

Also, it isn't looking good for William F. Koch either...

 Quote: In the 1940s he marketed glyoxylide, a drug which he claimed would cure cancer. The claims were never scientifically proved, and he was considered a charlatan by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA). [...] In the early 1940s, Koch announced his discovery of glyoxylide, a miracle drug that would cure a long list of diseases, even when administered at one part per trillion dilution. He sold the drug through an entity called the Christian Medical Research League. He never revealed his process for the manufacture of glyoxylide, and there never was any evidence that glyoxylide in any amount had any therapeutic effect. Analysis showed it to be distilled water. Over 3,000 health practitioners in the U.S. paid $25 per ampoule for Koch's treatment and charged patients as much as$300 for a single injection.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Frederick_Koch

 Quote: Koch's treatment was one of the greatest medical hoaxes of all time. Analysis showed it to be distilled water of extraordinary purity. but Koch claimed his medicine contained I part of a chemical called glyoxylide per 1 trillion parts of water. [...] There was no evidence that glyoxylide in any amount had any therapeutic effect.

https://www.cancertreatmentwatch.org/q/janssen.shtml

...so I'm not going to read the dozens upon dozens of papers on that website.

@DraconicAcid

Well put.

I think the biggest danger of homeopathy lies in the fact that some people choose it over an actual treatment and get serious health issues. This includes children that can't decide for themselves.

You're quick on the scene on this topic, and quick to cut it down.
Koch was sued 3 times in Federal Court, AMA, FDA, FTC and each time, his naysayers lost the case because it was proven, he cured cancer. They tried so hard to hide it. The hundreds of thousands who were cured of cancers and other ailments, dn't care about folk who pipe for the bullsht USA medical industry, that murders people. You all are so transparent. Koch cures cancer, everybody with a brain who can read knows it. Morris Fishbein, who went after him and Hoxsey and Royal Raymond Rife and others, was forced to resign from being head of the bogus AMA. That's the fact Jack !!

[Edited on 16-11-2017 by Quaff]
Quaff
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Its all public record, Koch cures cancer about 80% of the time, and its free-radical chemistry, in super-diluted amounts. Two cc's of a solution containing one microgram per cc of benzoquinone injected subcutaneously or intramuscularly causes a febrile reaction, calcification and shrinkage of tumors, and restoration of natural bodily immunity. Only an enemy of humanity would be quick to cut this down. Its not "homeopathy" , its rather, simple free radical chemistry, administered in the tiny amounts shown in the paper by Wagner. The evil ones just hate America and want to hide this stuff. Its awesome chemistry. Before this gets deleted, I suggest at least one of you all download all of Koch's materials, if you have a loved one suffering un-necesarily because you were deprived the knowledge, because of the greed and desire of others to control you and your families. I'm not a doctor, make your own judgements, I only cited Koch for purposes of discussion, under Article 19 of the UN Charter and the first amendment of the Constitution for the United States which my ancestors shed blood to establish

[Edited on 16-11-2017 by Quaff]
gdflp
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16-11-2017 at 13:37
Quaff
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Quaff Junk

But, we can also use glyoxal and methyl glyoxal at the same dilutions, for the same purpose. I can refer you to this link, for you to obtain a pdf of any issued patent:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/

There, you can enter the numbers of Dr. Koch's patents for his process of producing the agents that cured cancer, diabetes, syphillis, hoof and mouth disease in cattle, and more. You see, all these ailments have a common cause !!

Two of Dr. Koch's patents are numbered 2,257,748 and 2,382,425. I suggest to download them. The dude studied under Gomberg, and was not only an MD, but also a PhD in chem.

I injected myself with a 1 ppb solution of triple distilled water containing benzoquinone, methylglyoxal, and glyoxal. The weird bumps on my skin I had for 30 years disappeared 3 weeks later. Read the entirety of the williamfkoch.com website !! Download all of it !! The cancer industry hates this knowledge, because you could "treat" 300 million people , using only 35 bucks of material !! there's a lesson for the 15 year old, that there's a bunch of greedy bsrtds out there who want control so badly, they'll have no qualms about letting you grandma die, for their greedy ends, when cures for these things have been long known. Also look up Harry Hoxsey and how he had a network of cancer clinics around the USA in the 50's that Fishbein hated so much the AMA had him arrested like 300+ times, but he never once lost in any Court of Law. These people HATE it if you have knowledge. Also look up Rene Caisse, Virginia Livingston Wheeler, then you realize

[Edited on 16-11-2017 by Quaff]
gdflp
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16-11-2017 at 13:58
Quaff
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Quaff

 Quote: Originally posted by gdflp Let's keep this thread on topic everyone. Quaff, don't continue to post off-topic nonsense after I've already pruned the thread.

f-you, most of your poeple in organic chem are posting shit about drug making. We have enough drugs in this county, maybe you're DEA running this, whatever. I posted powerful legitimate chemistry materials. You all in the US are totally fkd, so go jerk yourself off some more, you stupid cunt
gdflp
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