sarinox
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Need help for identification of an energetic composition/substance
Dear mads, please have a look at the attached photos, did u see these Chinese made hobby rockets? they are tiny in size(approximately 4 centimeters
long) they when I cracked one of them open, I found a white material in it, the material looks like plaster! when it burns it burns quickly, I belive
the way it burns is different from the way Nitrocellulose burns.
(I tries to bur a small chunk of it, it is not too sensitive to flame, u have to try a bit to ignite it, but once it ignites it burns very fast! and I
can say the residue is fairly small, it can be neglected, I also think when it burns it smells like Nitrated compounds such as nitrocellulose, but it
burns differently and its flame is not yellowish like nitrocellulose i could'n recognize it's flame color surely cuz it burns fast)
So, does any of U guys know what it is? or can guess what it is?
and what are your suggestive methods for identifying this compound?
Maybe it is a highly nitrated cellulose, I don't know.
Could it be Nitrostarch? (I have never seen Nitro starch)
  
[Edited on 25-11-2017 by sarinox]
[Edited on 25-11-2017 by sarinox]
  
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Markovfff
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Seems like a some sort of whistle mix. A mix that burns quickly if not compressed. In most cases its a mixture of potasium chlorate with sodium
salicylate/benzoate. I remember that in Poland we used to name it SSA powder, I have seen people making huge fireckrackers with it.
[Edited on 25-11-2017 by Markovfff]
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nitro-genes
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Looks like a purple flame colour from the photos, so a potassium potassium chlorate/perchlorate composition is likely indeed
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sarinox
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Quote: Originally posted by Markovfff  | Seems like a some sort of whistle mix. A mix that burns quickly if not compressed. In most cases its a mixture of potasium chlorate with sodium
salicylate/benzoate. I remember that in Poland we used to name it SSA powder, I have seen people making huge fireckrackers with it.
[Edited on 25-11-2017 by Markovfff] |
Thanks Markovfff, I will try to study the substance and find out if it contains clorates. Thanks.
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sarinox
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| Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes | | Looks like a purple flame colour from the photos, so a potassium potassium chlorate/perchlorate composition is likely indeed |
Thanks nitro-genes, I will try to study the substance and find out if it contains clorates/perchlorates. Thanks.
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Bert
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Typically, the Chinese whistling bottle rockets are a phthalate fuel such as Potassium Hydrogen pthalate with Potassium perchlorate as the oxidizer.
Minor ingredients might be small quantities of something such as petroleum jelly, a wax or oil to moderate burn speed, render the mix less hygroscopic
and thus improve shelf life of the finished rocket engine, and/or catalysts such as Copper chromite, Iron oxides or others to speed decomposition of
the perchlorate.
[Edited on 26-11-2017 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
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2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
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Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Bert
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Thread Moved
25-11-2017 at 21:18 |
sarinox
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert | Typically, the Chinese whistling bottle rockets are a phthalate fuel such as Potassium Hydrogen pthalate with Potassium perchlorate as the oxidizer.
Minor ingredients might be small quantities of something such as petroleum jelly, a wax or oil to moderate burn speed, render the mix less hygroscopic
and thus improve shelf life of the finished rocket engine, and/or catalysts such as Copper chromite, Iron oxides or others to speed decomposition of
the perchlorate.
[Edited on 26-11-2017 by Bert] |
Thanks Bert, I was amazed on your detailed response, I have got one question, U might know the answer:
How the composition is prepared? (Potassium Hydrogen pthalate is relatively soluble in water, yet Potassium perchlorate is not! so, what is/are the
efficient way of mixing these two substances to get a relatively homogeneous composition?"
[Edited on 26-11-2017 by sarinox]
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Bert
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Please take a small bit of your material, perhaps the size of a match head and put it on a steel surface. Hit it with a steel hammer. How hard do you
have to hit for it to explode?
Watch this before you decide to make your own whistle mix.
In a Chinese factory, the composition may be wet milled, as you note, the pthalate is water soluble. See the last link. Initially mixed mechanically
by a remote mixing machine and probably formed into soft grains for easier mechanical charging with less dust given off, then either gang pressed or
semi automatically machine pressed sequentially into tubes for the small device you showed. The Chinese are doing more and more of this work with
automated machinery.
You aren't doing that at home. So go here, if you still are interested after finding out how dangerous such mixes are.
http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/rockets/whistletes...
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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sarinox
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Nowadays I see another types of chines made firecrackers, they have no markings on them so I have no clue to begin with! they are produced in
triangular shape with a fuse for lighting it, the shell of a firecracker is made of paper, the compound which is responsible for its explosion is
grayish compound, it seems it is composed of Al or Zn powders I am not sure! does anyone know what is this explosive compound?
Attachment: The_firecracker_itself_1 (92kB)
This file has been downloaded 701 times Attachment: The_explosive_composition (205kB)
This file has been downloaded 708 times Attachment: The_firecracker_itself_2 (79kB)
This file has been downloaded 672 times
[Edited on 7-3-2018 by sarinox]
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Herr Haber
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Polumna is the easiest firecracker to hand make. Usually the composition is plain and simple flash powder.
There is usually a good amount of it though, dont be deceived by the looks.
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sarinox
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| Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber | Polumna is the easiest firecracker to hand make. Usually the composition is plain and simple flash powder.
There is usually a good amount of it though, dont be deceived by the looks. |
Thanks, I didn't know about Polumna, but I thought the composition must be a type of flash powder, because it burns bright!
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