Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  
Author: Subject: Is storing sulfonitric acid (H2SO4/HNO3 mix) safe
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-11-2017 at 15:28
Is storing sulfonitric acid (H2SO4/HNO3 mix) safe


Im going to family this weekend and I've been asked to bring down a explosive substance. Since i dont want to drive 1250km with a bomb in the trunk i was wondering if its possible to store a H2SO4/HNO3 mix in a drain cleaner bottle. Is there any reaction or possible reaction i dont know about that could make this dangerous?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1560
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-11-2017 at 15:47


Unless your in Baghdad, is there really any sensible reason to have a 'Bomb' in the car? And lets be honest, if you got to ask stuff like that, should you be transporting anything like that at all? Lets just say you have a crash, maybe the car catches fire? What you going to do, put a note on the windows warning the fire brigade of the bomb in the boot?

Others might disagree, but driving arounf with a bomb in the car is not a good idea, sure take the chems, build your bomb when you there.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 02:13


I dont think you read my question

My question is can I store sulfonitric acid in a drain cleaner bottle made for H2SO4
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bert
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 2705
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 04:52


That's OK, you didn't internalize his quite sensible answer either.

I had an acquaintence who tried a similar drive (New York to Minneapolis) with a box of chemicals in the back seat. Yes, an acid bottle somehow broke or otherwise leaked completely out... No more floor on one side of the rear passenger compartment. Probably happened while they were in a hotel room, you might notice that kind of thing otherwise.

Lucky for him, nothing caught fire, or made enough of the various acid gasses/NOx to kill him. All the electricals in the passenger compartment of the car became quite unreliable in the next few months though, kind of like a car that has been underwater.

Aside from whatever risks YOU are willing to take? Please, before you put chemicals and explosives in the trunk and drive across a continent- Just take a moment and consider: Would you be happy if that load was in a car that crashed into the car with YOUR mother/sister/girlfriend on board?

What is said bottle made of. Glass? Plastic??? WHICH plastic?!

AFAIK, he's in South Africa.

[Edited on 28-11-2017 by Bert]




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 6590
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 05:17


And why transport pre-mixed H2SO4/HNO3? Things become less dangerous if you transport the H2SO4 and HNO3 in their own original and separate containers.

[Edited on 28-11-17 by woelen]




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at http://www.oelen.net/science
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 10:53


I only have one bottle, plastic, i was not considering large amounts. About a 50ml just to demonstrate but from the replies im getting I probably am just going to leave it all together. Its a 1liter sulfuric acid drain cleaner bottle. Contained 94% h2so4. Not sure which type of plastic it is.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Vosoryx
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 249
Registered: 18-6-2017
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: Afraid of HCN

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 11:09


If you only have one container, what are you storing your acids in now?
If you pack ground glass reagent bottles well (tape over the stopper) id feel safe travelling with it.
Alternatively, make a small mixture of the mixed HNO3/H2SO4, heat it lightly, and put it on the bottle in question. Leave it for some time at room temp. Come back a day later.
If there is light discolouration, it's probably fine. If theres pitting or a hole forms it's (obviously) not fit fir storing the acid.
Also test to see if the acid made the plastic more brittle than the untreated stuff.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 12:27


The acids are now in large glass containers which i dont want to take with since there's too much acid in for me to feel comfortable. I was also thinking of putting it in the bottle at higher than room temperature to see if there is a decrease in volume when it returns to room temperature. This way i would know if there is any significant gas formation.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1320
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 13:23


I would suggest transporting the concentrated H2SO4 in the drain cleaner bottle, since it's made for that, and transporting the nitric acid as calcium nitrate (don't set them next to each other in the car obviously). Nitric acid can be regenerated from calcium nitrate by adding sulfuric acid and filtering off calcium sulfate. Calcium nitrate is much safer to carry around than any form of nitric acid and does not require a special container. You may have to do some dehydration etc at the destination, but if they're not capable of doing that they probably shouldn't be playing with nitric acid in the first place...



[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 13:34


Doing silly things doesn't impress anyone.

If they want fireworks, buy some fireworks when you get there - explain the chemistry.

Much more durable entertainment than a half-shredded car/corpse.

[Edited on 28-11-2017 by aga]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 14:14


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Doing silly things doesn't impress anyone.

If they want fireworks, buy some fireworks when you get there - explain the chemistry.

Much more durable entertainment than a half-shredded car/corpse.

[Edited on 28-11-2017 by aga][/rquote

Im sure 50ml of h2so4 and hno3 wont be shredding anyone. But thanks for the advice
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 14:24


Ah Youth !

It would be great to be young again without a care in the world, and belief in my own invincibility.

Sadly for me those days are gone.

Maybe an acid spill in the trunk of a car can make the petrol tank explode while i was driving it ?

Not an experiment i would like to attempt.

Definitely not on the basis of impressing some people.

6 bitcoin and i can wear a tinfoil hat - maybe ;)




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 14:30


As per my quetion, let me rephrase it and hopefully someone can read it thorougly before assuming I want to drive an IED around.

Is there a possible danger in storing 50ml mix of H2SO4/HNO3 in a one liter drain cleaner bottle that contained 94% sulfuric acid that i dont know about. Like a pressure buildup over time due to decomposition etc. Because as far as i know it should be safe. If you dont know can you please rather not reply than to continue ranting about this unknown "explosive car" everyone talks about.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 14:43


The question is meaningless.

For transport you just use two bottles of HDPE, maybe 4 (bottle-in-bottle kinda thing).

The Cunning Plan is to put one acid in one bottle, and the other acid in the other bottle, instead of mixing them.

Then, in a dastardly way, you contrive to Keep those bottles separate for the rest of the journey.

By the magic of Chemistry, they are Mixed (by magical means) to make the required substance on arrival.

Ta Da !

Solution presented.

Transporting a nitrating acid mix for a lot of miles is basically being a dick.

[Edited on 28-11-2017 by aga]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1320
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 15:05


Quote: Originally posted by Sandman3232  
As per my quetion, let me rephrase it and hopefully someone can read it thorougly before assuming I want to drive an IED around.

Is there a possible danger in storing 50ml mix of H2SO4/HNO3 in a one liter drain cleaner bottle that contained 94% sulfuric acid that i dont know about. Like a pressure buildup over time due to decomposition etc. Because as far as i know it should be safe. If you dont know can you please rather not reply than to continue ranting about this unknown "explosive car" everyone talks about.

The answer, as you have been told, is yes. If you don't want to hear safe ways to accomplish what you're trying to do, my advice is: stop posting on ScienceMadness. We get enough bad press without people insisting that someone should tell them a stupid idea is safe. You've been told not to multiple times, so don't pretend nobody's addressing your concerns.




[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 15:06


Okay thanks man. Appreciate the plan. Never knew it was so easy. True magic of chemistry hey. Thanks for the sarcasm.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1320
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 15:10


Quote: Originally posted by Sandman3232  
Okay thanks man. Appreciate the plan. Never knew it was so easy. True magic of chemistry hey. Thanks for the sarcasm.
You deserve it. You're an arrogant little shit and you're going to get someone hurt with that attitude.



[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 15:15


Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara  
Quote: Originally posted by Sandman3232  
As per my quetion, let me rephrase it and hopefully someone can read it thorougly before assuming I want to drive an IED around.

Is there a possible danger in storing 50ml mix of H2SO4/HNO3 in a one liter drain cleaner bottle that contained 94% sulfuric acid that i dont know about. Like a pressure buildup over time due to decomposition etc. Because as far as i know it should be safe. If you dont know can you please rather not reply than to continue ranting about this unknown "explosive car" everyone talks about.

The answer, as you have been told, is yes. If you don't want to hear safe ways to accomplish what you're trying to do, my advice is: stop posting on ScienceMadness. We get enough bad press without people insisting that someone should tell them a stupid idea is safe. You've been told not to multiple times, so don't pretend nobody's addressing your concerns.



I was actually just hoping for more answers like yours rather than stirring this shitstorm. But thanks to everyone who attempted to help. And i wont be driving with the acid for everyone who was concerned.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 15:17


The calcium nitrate thing
View user's profile View All Posts By User
aga
Forum Drunkard
*****




Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 15:54


Basically it is dumb idea for 0 benefit to anyone, not even you.

It's just amateur chemists here trying to explore the science as best they can.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 16:00


I was actually hoping the forum would go more into the chemistry of the sulfonitric mix. But somehow everyone got the idea im a little cunt that wont listen. Sucks to be new here.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bert
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 2705
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

[*] posted on 28-11-2017 at 16:42


Oh, little Simba, you have absolutely NO idea...

Did you know we have a library? Free??? Which includes a book by Tenney Davis called Chemistry of Powder and Explosives? There's another one in there, by Phokion Naoum called Nitroglycerin and Nitroglycerin Explosives. You might like them.

http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/index.html

You should go to the library and download/read those books. LOTS of basic chemistry books there too. The kind that might tell you about materials, tools and techniques.

After THAT, come back and ask questions. All you want. Just start the question with "I read X in Book Y, also watched YouTube videos A, B,C & D to learn about E. I am wondering/not sure about/went out and did an experiment on E- and here are my results". Do your best to show the ballanced equations, or give source of whatever your starting information was and ask HOW to do that.

Then no one will think you are lazy, demanding and not good at listening to the advice you asked for.

By the way, on the BOTTOM of that plastic bottle is a number inside a symbol. It's the code for what kind of plastic it is made of, perhaps you could find it and post that information.

https://www.google.com/amp/naturalsociety.com/recycling-symb...




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-11-2017 at 00:11


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Oh, little Simba, you have absolutely NO idea...

Did you know we have a library? Free??? Which includes a book by Tenney Davis called Chemistry of Powder and Explosives? There's another one in there, by Phokion Naoum called Nitroglycerin and Nitroglycerin Explosives. You might like them.

http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/index.html

You should go to the library and download/read those books. LOTS of basic chemistry books there too. The kind that might tell you about materials, tools and techniques.

After THAT, come back and ask questions. All you want. Just start the question with "I read X in Book Y, also watched YouTube videos A, B,C & D to learn about E. I am wondering/not sure about/went out and did an experiment on E- and here are my results". Do your best to show the ballanced equations, or give source of whatever your starting information was and ask HOW to do that.

Then no one will think you are lazy, demanding and not good at listening to the advice you asked for.

By the way, on the BOTTOM of that plastic bottle is a number inside a symbol. It's the code for what kind of plastic it is made of, perhaps you could find it and post that information.

https://www.google.com/amp/naturalsociety.com/recycling-symb...



Didn't know theres a library im still trying to figure out how to navigate the site. But thanks ill read into that.

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-11-2017 at 00:58


So the bottle is made of HDPE. That webpage also said that there are many other bottles (mostly toiletries) that use the same plastic. Can these other bottles that is made of HDPE also be used for storing acids and oxidising agents?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sandman3232
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 27-11-2017
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-11-2017 at 01:01


And if the bottle is made of HDPE is the cap necesarily made of the same substance. Cant seem to find numbers on the caps
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  

  Go To Top