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arkoma
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[*] posted on 13-12-2017 at 15:18


I am well pleased with charcoal made from Cottonwood tree. Use an old CLEAN metal paint can with a couple holes knocked in the top, pack with tidbits of wood put the lid on then toss on a campfire and leave till smoke quits coming out. Makes wonderful black powder. I use 75:15:10 with enough dextrin to bind it up good. My ball mill consists of double-ought buckshot in a plastic vitamin bottle. I make 50gm batches and sit and shake it while watching the tube LOL.



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[*] posted on 13-12-2017 at 16:08


A couple of things i would have to improvise here. No cotton wood trees in these parts.... But got to be something similar around, i am surrounded by fucking trees!!

Paint can....Check
Clean.....(to do )
Camp fire....(improvise open fire powered by coal in lounge) Check
Dextrin.... above novice level, so maybe third run :D
Buckshot.... Improvise lead balls from fishing shop
Vitim bottle...... Aspirin bottle Check
You tube..... Really?? your gonna make me sit in front of you tube???? Ok well anything for science (Check)
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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 03:31


Cottonwood is a member of the salicin family, in other words it's related to willow. Look at the leaves sometimes, hard to tell apart from willow leaves.
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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 13:09


Quote: Originally posted by hyfalcon  
Cottonwood is a member of the salicin family, in other words it's related to willow. Look at the leaves sometimes, hard to tell apart from willow leaves.

We got willow! So thats another CHECK !
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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 13:27


Don't be too picky with your choice of wood, make sure it's something you have easy access to. Proper cooking of the charcoal can affect performance as well, so try to put at least some effort into temperature control.



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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 13:55


It would be nice if someone with access to KNO3 and Sulphur could make a small fire to make charcoal, do the experiments and report on their findings.

For sure there is a Ton of information about this on t'internet, yet no in-depth series of Scientific experiments reported on SciMad.

Mix KNO3 and Sulphur and Charcoal in different proportions, different ways.
Set fire to it on a track.
Measure the Time it takes to burn from one end to the other.
Write down all the details.
Science.

It is 99.9% unlikely this will ever happen on SM as it would require physical and mental Effort for at least a day, and not just words on a website.

Perhaps the ability to make Fire has been lost, which would make lighting the mixture impossible.




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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 14:34


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
It would be nice if someone with access to KNO3 and Sulphur could make a small fire to make charcoal, do the experiments and report on their findings.

For sure there is a Ton of information about this on t'internet, yet no in-depth series of Scientific experiments reported on SciMad.

Mix KNO3 and Sulphur and Charcoal in different proportions, different ways.
Set fire to it on a track.
Measure the Time it takes to burn from one end to the other.
Write down all the details.
Science.

It is 99.9% unlikely this will ever happen on SM as it would require physical and mental Effort for at least a day, and not just words on a website.

Perhaps the ability to make Fire has been lost, which would make lighting the mixture impossible.


Well it wont be me until i know what the rules are, considering Blogers, i think its stupid to take chances in the UK without seeing where we stand first.

I have emailed the place Bert suggested, if anyone will know the law inside out, it will be them. Chances of getting caught might be low, but then again is a year inside worth a simple experiment?

plus I always plan first, I am not a get an idea and just do it person, i like to make sure I know what I am doing first. I like my face, i like my fingers and toes...

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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 17:16


LOL NEMO, the "telly" not youtube. Dextrin is EASY. Cornstarch put in about a 150C oven til it turns brownish.

And aga you pique my interest and at the risk of putting "foot in mouth" I accept your challenge! I have all the requisite ingredients, a pretty good scale and a crappy cellphone to take video with. AND, I live in a place that I can do pyrotechnic experiments without my neighbors being alarmed. Give me two weeks to amass some data.

*EDIT* I have NEEDED a bona-fide challenge I can meet w00t

[Edited on 12-15-2017 by arkoma]




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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 17:38


I like the dextrin!!! I can make that easy enough over the weekend. Relief over the you tube thing! So much crap on it now..

Sulphur being purified and thats it for today, way too cold to do more today :D. I found a rock polish machine thing online cheap, i might get it to give it go at blending.
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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 18:09


arky, your hand shaken black powder might introduce some variables, a simple ball mill can be made by ripping the guts out of an old printer and connecting up a power supply, easy as..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ECB-moAYsI

Will burning a trail of powder at atmospheric pressures give a good indication of performance for use in firearms/mortars?
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[*] posted on 14-12-2017 at 18:46


checked my oxidizer supply. Have KClO3, NH4NO3, and KNO3 plus sulfur and softwood charcoal. Have ammonium nitrate in toaster oven now drying out.

*EDIT* good friend of mine has a muzzleloader and is aware of my participation on Sciencemadness.org so I going to try to do open burn and firearm tests!

[Edited on 12-15-2017 by arkoma]




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[*] posted on 15-12-2017 at 07:00


Some tidbits with a movie.
http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/homemade_bp.html
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[*] posted on 24-12-2017 at 09:07


I ordered some charcoal, the idea being to test mine against some i had purchased. BIG mistake! Mixed it up but all the time it didnt feel right, kind of micro sandy feel to it, not sure why but it bugged me.

In the end I decided not to ignite it and get rid of it, now i know you shouldnt taste chemicals... but sometimes with fairly tame stuff I do taste tiny amounts, the charcoal had a odd taste. Actually its a taste i know pretty well, a sort of funny metal taste, having polished ALOT of Aluminum recently, i recognized the horrible taste.

So i tested some the 'charcoal' with some hydrochloric acid and got a fizz, contacted the guy i brought it from on ebay and apparently its how he sells his pyro mix on there. All his regulars are aware, but he obviously didnt think to check if i was a regular!

Anyway made a small batch, I have my wood cut out and marked. Just waiting for a non rainy day so I can light it and film to get the speed.

On the info side i found the following out. It seems in England you can posses 100g black powder, in Scotland there is some discrepancy on what you can own and use, some sources say 100g and some (the police explosives guy) say 10g. Dosnt matter much to me, 10g is more than enough powder!

So after christmas i will complete these experiments, couple of questions though first. Where can i post videos apart from you tube? How best to protect the powder from a damp atmosphere? Where i do my chemistry the room is damp and difficult to heat, i dont want to store the powder but i do want to have it very dry.

I guess i could make a kind of desiccator out a plastic box with a lid, actually the main problem i have had with this whole thing is the damp, at the moment the weather is very wet and the air really damp. The Potassium Nitrate just dosnt seem to want to stay to stay dry. My option of last resort is a microbiology incubator, its a shaking one (i can turn that bit off), and can go down to 10C. I might keep the chems in there for now (separated), its fairly well sealed and i could put some desiccant in it.

I did manage to buy some fine mesh stainless steel, seems alot of money for 6X6 square of mesh. But should grate up the powder as per Bert's recipe pretty well. I did get told it would be frowned upon if i was caught, but ultimately it is legal for small amounts.

The definition of black powder is pretty loose, but according to the police here, its strictly the major three ingredients and nothing else. They want the law changed so you cant have any, no point going into it here, but no logical reason for this. Black powder hasnt been used for anything dodgy, so i assume its just a lack of tolerance for anything pyro. I am also told that changing the law in England for black powder isnt that easy, in Scotland the ban could be done fairly easy. But England it has some shit called Grand Father rights.

There is also some other reason it hasnt been banned, i am not sure what yet (still trying to find out), but it seems black powder comes under a law that would be difficult to change. maybe when i get one of my email answered i will know more.
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[*] posted on 24-12-2017 at 11:46


Just so you look impressively scientific and all for those officials, a fancy testing rig:

Attachment: Kosanke Black Powder Testing.pdf (1MB)
This file has been downloaded 27 times




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[*] posted on 24-12-2017 at 12:17


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Just so you look impressively scientific and all for those officials, a fancy testing rig:


Thx bert! that looks super cool, alas anything short of plastic surgery is not gonna make me look remotely scientific :D. Although i have got a clipboard now lol, and my lab coat has been washed! Actually the lab coat walked to the washing machine on its own. :D
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[*] posted on 24-12-2017 at 17:41


Quote:
How best to protect the powder from a damp atmosphere? Where i do my chemistry the room is damp and difficult to heat, i dont want to store the powder but i do want to have it very dry.


My problem. Have had five inches of rain here in last WEEK. Have made three KNO3 mixtures and received powdered aluminum from "Secret Santa" so flash powders are within reach.

Figure I will cut grooves in a 2 X 4 and electrically ignite whilst taking video.




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[*] posted on 24-12-2017 at 18:19


Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
Quote:
How best to protect the powder from a damp atmosphere? Where i do my chemistry the room is damp and difficult to heat, i dont want to store the powder but i do want to have it very dry.


My problem. Have had five inches of rain here in last WEEK. Have made three KNO3 mixtures and received powdered aluminum from "Secret Santa" so flash powders are within reach.

Figure I will cut grooves in a 2 X 4 and electrically ignite whilst taking video.
I have cut grooves as well, i figure if i scrape the powder across them, then in theory it should be the same amount each time (give or take a gnats cock).

here its cold and damp, hasnt rained huge amounts, but has rained every day it hasnt frozen solid :D. Flash powder.... i nearly did that lol. Everything gets damp as hell in an hour or so here!

Merry Christmas
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[*] posted on 24-12-2017 at 20:31


Some information about GOEX, the last USA manufacturer left, back when they were at the old DuPont site in Moosic Pennsylvania.

Among other things... they had a water supply infrastructure problem and for some time had to use on site well water that was acidic and contained Iron compounds. BAD idea.

Also it became painfully obvious that their nitrate supplier was sending them fertilizer grade Potassium nitrate of 98% or LESS purity. Then the supplier went bankrupt, which was a GOOD thing in the end, say hello to Haifa technical grade nitrate, 99.5% purity.

Then they blew up. Again. It is a constant: You make enough black powder, you will have explosions. Stamp mill, ball mill, wheel mill, Lovold process mill. Doesn't matter. They all blow up-

Do remember that, and plan for dammage mitigation. I personally know 3 people who have admitted to blowing up a ball mill, and that's jcertainly just the ones who would admit it. Set any BP manufacturing process up where the explosion will not matter. Not in the garage with the cars, gas cans, lawn mower...

Attachment: history.pdf (109kB)
This file has been downloaded 30 times

Attachment: Lovold Process BP patent US3660546.pdf (562kB)
This file has been downloaded 24 times

Attachment: BlackPowder41.pdf (2MB)
This file has been downloaded 24 times




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[*] posted on 25-12-2017 at 01:07
BP speed


Does this look fast to you?
I ask for I live in South Africa and there is no longer commercially available BP, the last plant shut in 2010. So in truth I don't really know...

https://youtu.be/KMyM26fCNQI
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[*] posted on 25-12-2017 at 15:08


I figure that scraped across identical grooves will work too. Have one formulation, conventional 75:15:10, done already. I am grinding all in my mortar and pestle to a powder because I have no way of getting uniform grains. Going to get my cuzzin' to take vid and going to ignite each furrow electrically with a thin strand of copper wire attached to a 20 amp 12vdc supply. Figure I will make the grooves 20cm long and Jay has a pretty high end Samsung phone so should get good video.

So far I have compounded three powders:

75:15:10 KNO3, C, S

75:15:10 KNO3, C, Table Sugar

70:30 KNO3, C

All 3 have a modest amount of dextrin added to bind them up

*edit*

Also figure on at least two KClO3 preparations too--flash powder and powdered rocket candy. I ain't quite dumb/drunk enough to heat chlorate on my stove.............


[Edited on 12-25-2017 by arkoma]




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[*] posted on 25-12-2017 at 15:37


2:1:1 Potassium chlorate:Sulfur:flash grade Aluminum powder is a very traditional small report mixture. Quite a sensitive one vs. impact, friction, static discharge, harsh words & other initiating impulses. I wouldn't make more than a gram or two these days.

Aluminized black powder (sandard 75:15:10 black powder made in a fine granulation and dusted with the ammount of flash grade Aluminum that will cling to the grains without either separating or filling the air spaces needed for flame to propagate, around 5-10% of total charge weight) works quite well for larger devices, hotter, faster and louder than a plain black powder banger with less attention to a strong case required- Very flame sensitive, probably static sensitive too, but not nearly as sensitive as chlorate or perchlorate flash are to impact and friction.




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[*] posted on 25-12-2017 at 18:12


Don't think I have the balls to mix sulfur and chlorate!! Might as well dig up my Red P from the backyard LOL



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[*] posted on 25-12-2017 at 20:35


Some old Italian guys would mix it 10 pounds at a time, then make up a 5 pound, a couple of two pound and a one pound ground bomb, used in the reverse order. Hung about 5 feet off the ground, so the shock slapped the audience good-

They also shot chlorate flash with Sulfur out of mortars in salutes, bottom shots, etc. When such a shell made a round trip due to a failed spolette, you didn't have to look for it after the show, just get a shovel and fill the hole.

I don't recommend these historical practices and chemistry (well, I do still like a ground bomb segment).




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[*] posted on 26-12-2017 at 02:38


Yeah chlorate is out for me too, i have the balls but want to keep them where they are :D. So its a waiting game for the rain then, actually no rain yesterday! typical the one day chemistry was not an option!

I was going to try in the workshop, but seeing as you mention garages etc i will take that on board. my match is fine iron wool and a battery, i looked at the plans you posted the other day, it got me thinking that maybe the flame would burn through fine copper wire, so if i put a thread over the start and one at the end, attach a arduino, then i can start and stop a timer on one.

then its a case of working out machine cycles to get the speed in ms. I have found a old photographic drum thing for processing film. Maybe with a bit of tinkering and some grounding it might make a ball mill, i am keeping the tiny amounts in mind.

So again its outside, as far away from anything that matters that i can manage! I wont be doing many experiments with this, if its gonna go bang sooner or later, then its likely i am gonna get hurt! I have the knack of doing the wrong thing at the wrong time!

I tried the grooves with flour, it takes 1.3g of flour to fill the grooves. I am going to cut some more on the other side and make them a bit smaller, see if I can get the amount under 1g.

I love the sense of humor in the Lovold patent.... Small batches of 100KG!! Just to be clear, my definition of small is under 3g, no K or k in it.

[Edited on 26-12-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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