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Author: Subject: Prince Rupert's primary?
aga
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[*] posted on 28-12-2017 at 12:16


Mmmm.

I might have a go at making some of Prince Rupert's droppings.

Not sure i really want to stray into the Dark Side, i.e. the fizz-pop-bang world.




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[*] posted on 28-12-2017 at 14:57


Yes sorry Bert the size was 7cm from tip to start of the tail (will come back to that) the size of the head was around 1.6-1.8cm, I tried to measure it, and i know this is stupid but, i was really nervous! I am aware they dont/cant go off unless you break the tail, but having felt a slightly smaller one break, reason went out the window.

Soda glass seems to behave differently, the pyrex glass packs a much much bigger punch. The glass rod I used was 2cm in diameter, but obviously the bead distorts and gets smaller.

The tail....You can see where the tail starts, i havnt played much but if you look at the arse end carefully, you see a change in the light refraction, the bit where the colours just start to appear is the tail, they wont shatter unless you break them just past this point. Well so far thats my observation.

Aga i wouldnt want to start testing anything that goes bang, not until you get a good feel for these. Honestly the soda stuff is childs play, but use pyrex and its a whole other level. The water i used was around1-2c.

I have salt water in the freezer, this normally gets pretty close to -17C and still liquid (well bottom part is liquid). I think your going to find a point where the beads shatter on contact with the water if its 'too cold'. Nothing to back that up, but i did have a couple break at 1-2C as they hit the water, obviously that could be for any reason.

Try not to make the tails too long, try and melt the glass fast and cool fast. No data at all to back that, but the few i tried seemed more.....lively the quicker i melted them. Just an idea but with larger pyrex ones I wore welders gloves, it might be overkill i dont know yet!

I also swapped my goggles to a chainsaw toughened plastic type face shield, small bits do fly about at enormous speed, seeing the go pro case i wont take chances getting it in the eye.

Bert your the explosives expert, i will wait to try anything that goes bang until you have. I dont mind doing stuff on the beads and I am collecting papers etc, i can make the beads as I have gas etc....at the moment its the only heating i do have!!

Oh one last warning...........

DO NOT miss the bucket with a drop while you got slippers on!!! Lets leave it at that ok :D
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[*] posted on 28-12-2017 at 15:51


Here's kind of a loud drop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7CeZuM_8OE
I wonder what the upper limit is for size on a Rupert drop?
https://imgur.com/gallery/PXzBm
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[*] posted on 28-12-2017 at 18:22


Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
Here's kind of a loud drop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7CeZuM_8OE
I wonder what the upper limit is for size on a Rupert drop?
https://imgur.com/gallery/PXzBm


The fourth picture shows very nicely what i was saying about the colour, if you look you can see the colours end abruptly at the tail. Its at that point the things go off if broken, they can break a little further up but they dont shatter.

So the 'safe' bit is anything coloured or just slightly below that point.
I tried to make sure the tails were fairly short, its really easy and frustrating to break them when the tails are long and thin.

See what I mean about a good face shield :D

EDIT
Added 3 files that might be useful


[Edited on 29-12-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]

Attachment: johnson1992.pdf (1.6MB)
This file has been downloaded 18 times

Attachment: chaudhri2009.pdf (235kB)
This file has been downloaded 18 times

Attachment: chandrasekar1994.pdf (5.4MB)
This file has been downloaded 18 times

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[*] posted on 29-12-2017 at 10:15


It would be interesting to see what would happen if a drop was suspended in a mass of clear epoxy with only the tail sticking out. Once cured, snap the tail (at a distance).
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[*] posted on 29-12-2017 at 13:40


It would be interesting to see Anyone posting comments along with photos and data (if possible) of Their Experiments, rather than random google results.

Bert is kinda exempt as it is his idea after all.

If Geocachemaster is reading, i intend to do a utoob video on it.

[last time i let on i was going to do something he immediately did a video on it, so here's hoping he'll Do It again]




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[*] posted on 29-12-2017 at 16:36


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
It would be interesting to see Anyone posting comments along with photos and data (if possible) of Their Experiments, rather than random google results.

Bert is kinda exempt as it is his idea after all.

If Geocachemaster is reading, i intend to do a utoob video on it.

[last time i let on i was going to do something he immediately did a video on it, so here's hoping he'll Do It again]


Erm thats exactly what i have done!

No one sane is going to go set an explosive off without alot of work first. The drops bit i did above and posted my obs, then i went (along with others) and found stuff to back it up.

Yes its Berts idea, but saying he is exempt is contrary to your normal rants. Normally you tell people not to ask questions but go try it, so how come with Bert its ok to sit back??

No offense Bert :D
Besides thats as far now as i can probably go, make some drops then decide how keen you are on making then set off something that goes bang, unless you know energetic s well i can see alot of pain.

The drops are tough as seen in the film, but those tails break really easy, you break alot of drops at the start simply because the tails get caught or snag. Master the drop before thinking about explosives, unless you got the experience and knowledge of using them.

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[*] posted on 29-12-2017 at 16:40


Quote: Originally posted by argyrium  
It would be interesting to see what would happen if a drop was suspended in a mass of clear epoxy with only the tail sticking out. Once cured, snap the tail (at a distance).


I think it would be exactly like the lead in the video, nothing would happen, but then that kind of proves Berts on the right track.
If nothing happens then it has to be because the wave is absorbed? it dissipates over a bigger area, i think the idea is the bead delivers the energy to a single point?

BTW i doubt to get any emails back until at least end of first week in Jan. Not sure when the uni's go back
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[*] posted on 30-12-2017 at 02:09


Just a thought, not sure its a good test anyway but. What is the name of the purple stuff that has iodine in it? you paint it on wet and once dry it goes pop with little pressure? Might be worth some of us starting with small amounts of something like that.

But then again it goes off with little provocation, i cant remember the name now sorry.
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[*] posted on 30-12-2017 at 02:20


Nitrogen triiodide.
It goes off without being asked to as well.




Hmmm. Might be a fun thing to do some time soon.




A little shameless self-promotion: You are welcome to tour my newly-completed lab.
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[*] posted on 30-12-2017 at 06:07


In passing, there's a lot of force in an ice bomb too, if there were a way to use the energy.

Ice Bomb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE_fhooANhE
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[*] posted on 30-12-2017 at 10:21


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Nitrogen triiodide.
It goes off without being asked to as well.




Hmmm. Might be a fun thing to do some time soon.


Thank you, i couldnt think of the name!!! Not a good choice if its impolite and does its own thing! I was trying to think of something sensitive but reasonably safe, and moderately legal in the UK.

I might try it out of interest, a small coat on the top shouldnt damage the drop if it goes off.

There was a UK program mainly aimed at kids (Brainiac), one the guys on the show, used to walk around with a paint can full, he would paint the inside of cupboard doors so they went off when people opened them!

Might try to find a video of an episode just to check its the same stuff.
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[*] posted on 30-12-2017 at 12:22


Painted the inside of cupboards as a joke? Not a joke your victim would survive if that were literally true, and the idea of a paint can full is insane.

A couple of grams was enough to ruin the stuff on my desk top as a child.

It CAN go off while wet. The nice purple smoke hanging after it goes off is elemental Iodine, not something good to breathe

This material is decidedly in the category of "everyone who tries it has an accident".

It goes off from the vibration of closing a door to the room it was drying in. You can't safely move it when it is dry.

[Edited on 31-12-2017 by Bert]




Boom.
The explosion removed the windows, the door and most of the chimney.
It was the sort of thing you expected in the Street of alchemists. The neighbors preferred explosions, which were at least identifiable and soon over. They were better than the smells, which crept up on you.
-Terry Pratchett, "Moving Pictures"

It is essential that persons having explosive 
substances under their charge should never 
lose sight of the conviction that, preventive 
measures should always be prescribed 
on the hypothesis of an explosion.

Marcellin Berthelot - 1892 Explosives and their power - Page 47
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[*] posted on 30-12-2017 at 13:12


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Erm thats exactly what i have done!

Put your photos or videos, or just the Scientific Data where your mouth is.

googled references to other people's physical work does not count as your own work, at all.

Bert is excused from Doing mostly for coming up with the idea, also because he is a real person with a real life.

Perhaps the implications are obscured by the sexy explosives angle, however a sudden non-incendiary energy release can be utilised for other things, such as sintering.

Edit:

NI3 is idiocy embodied.

[Edited on 30-12-2017 by aga]




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[*] posted on 30-12-2017 at 19:36


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Erm thats exactly what i have done!

Put your photos or videos, or just the Scientific Data where your mouth is.

googled references to other people's physical work does not count as your own work, at all.

Bert is excused from Doing mostly for coming up with the idea, also because he is a real person with a real life.

Perhaps the implications are obscured by the sexy explosives angle, however a sudden non-incendiary energy release can be utilised for other things, such as sintering.

Edit:

NI3 is idiocy embodied.

[Edited on 30-12-2017 by aga]


I did put my OWN observations up! including the bit of where the tail starts etc etc etc. I also trawled papers to find data that might be helpful.

Nearly every post you make includes a plea for pics. Please give it a rest, not everyone has a phone that takes decent pics, some of us have access to good cameras, but i am not real comfortable taking an expensive camera that isnt mine into the lab!

The bit about Bert is bollocks, in the coffee thread i am doing your banging on about just doing it and taking pics, but surely seeing as i started the thread i must be exempt from that then?

I didnt google the bit about test tube glass stinging or.....
Fuckit, tell you what i will leave you to it.

You might be happy just going into the shed and seeing what happens, personally i dont have the money to waste chemicals, my own style is to research and ask questions first. Thats how I personally learn, if your not happy with what i post then dont read it.

If Bert has a problem with me writing to researchers, and posting relevant papers then the moment he tells me to stop i will.

You seriously think those papers were just randomly picked from google? No i read them first and check if they have anything relevant to what others have posted, or if they back what I have seen when i have tried stuff.

Seriously though i would really like to know what your obsession with having pictures is about?

Out of interest, just how much useful information have YOU contributed to this thread so far?

Maybe you missed the bit where Bert mentions googling is fine? It dosnt take long after you have a break before your back trying to shape the forum to the way you want it.

I learn alot on here, some of it from you, but the constant moaning and badgering is getting right on my tits.

I will post any replies i get to the emails but thats it in this thread for me.
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[*] posted on 31-12-2017 at 03:25


Yeah, you're right.

I'll not mention it again.

Sorry for spoiling your fun.




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[*] posted on 31-12-2017 at 03:45


Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
In passing, there's a lot of force in an ice bomb too, if there were a way to use the energy.

Ice Bomb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE_fhooANhE

They do.
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/90134/how-can-i-brea...
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[*] posted on 31-12-2017 at 04:27


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Yeah, you're right.

I'll not mention it again.

Sorry for spoiling your fun.


Probably not (right i mean), i took my frustration out on you. Not getting as far as i wanted with the coffee, pictures are a really sore point at the moment but that isnt your fault.

If i ever finish what I am upto, your get a good idea why i am so frustrated. BTW, ever wondered why Caffeine yields are always so bad? Well i am discovering extraction isnt as straight forward as all the videos make it. But this is off topic here.

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[*] posted on 31-12-2017 at 10:57


Yep, encountered the same problem. Use instant coffee, it's about 2.5 % caffeine by weight, this should help.
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[*] posted on 1-1-2018 at 07:57


Just had a got at making some droppings.

5 times a droplet formed, fell off and dropped into a bucket of water.

Each time they droplet solidified then quickly fractured and fell to bits, so a complete failure.

More to this than just heating glass it seems.

Edit:

Seems the trick is to heat the blob a lot more than the tail : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASa7OSDx41k

[Edited on 1-1-2018 by aga]




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[*] posted on 1-1-2018 at 08:55


Also aga one the papers mentions this, apparently the water is best at a certain depth. This is so the glass can form a good skin before hitting the bottom, the glass then glows orange for a while when sitting on the bottom.

The tail as far as I know dosnt need heating, the blob just falls off and drags a tail with it. I am out of Propane (fuck its expensive!! 3.8KG £15!!), i will grab a new bottle when i get into town on weds.
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[*] posted on 1-1-2018 at 16:20


Is it possible to heat the center of a tube forming a blob and then quickly pull it from both ends so as to make a two-tailed drop, maybe lowering the sagging drop into a bucket as the two thin strands that support it are about to separate and break off from the two ends you are holding? Maybe it could be a two man operation to pull it off.
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[*] posted on 1-1-2018 at 16:57


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Just had a got at making some droppings.

5 times a droplet formed, fell off and dropped into a bucket of water.

Each time they droplet solidified then quickly fractured and fell to bits, so a complete failure.

More to this than just heating glass it seems.

Edit:

Seems the trick is to heat the blob a lot more than the tail : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASa7OSDx41k

[Edited on 1-1-2018 by aga]


Just had a good look at the video, there is a couple of things that look 'wrong'. For a start the colour refraction into the tail dosnt look right, from the best drops i have seen, the rainbow type reflection ends just before the tail starts.

Then look at the way the drop breaks, in the video there are chunks of glass, again with the best drops you get a fine powder.

It could be because he has used hollow glass tube, i dont know as i didnt try tube. But i think the video might be a good example of what we are not wanting?

Anyone else got thoughts on this? Especially the powder part? I am thinking the finer the powder formed, the more 'power' was involved when the drop exploded.

My gut feeling is still one of Bert is onto something with this.
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[*] posted on 1-1-2018 at 18:00


Maybe getting the glass as hot as possible produces the best powder shatter effect, creating more stress in the glass as it hardens.
I had a go at making some just now using boro tubing although I haven't broken the two small ones that formed. I didn't notice it at first but both had a very long spiderweb tail, one about 30 cm long at least that almost floated in the air being so thin. When trying to photograph it part of it broke off as it kept sticking to my hand without affecting the drop.
In the photo with the glass loop tail, I'm holding the Rupert drop out of the frame to just show the tail that was even longer before this photo.


DSC_0013.JPG - 229kB DSC_0008.JPG - 171kB DSC_0006.JPG - 185kB DSC_0004.JPG - 201kB DSC_0002.JPG - 258kB DSC_0015.JPG - 220kB

[Edited on 2-1-2018 by Morgan]
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[*] posted on 1-1-2018 at 23:42


Awesome !



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