| Pages:
1
2 |
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Nickel salts and compounds
I have always wanted to do some Nickel chemistry. Getting hold of Nickel isnt always easy though, i know some older coins were made from it, but i
dont know which!!
in the end I paid £20 for 280g Nickel shavings, these are 94% pure, most the impurities are Iron (3.4%) and Copper (1.4%), which makes me think these
came from coins originally?
Anyway, anyone got some suggestions on what salts,complexes or compounds i could make that are interesting?
I guess the first one should be dissolve some in HCl and make the chloride?
|
|
|
PirateDocBrown
National Hazard
Posts: 570
Registered: 27-11-2016
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Your pre-2011 5- and 10- pence coins are 25% Ni, 75% Cu. You should be able to separate those to get all the Ni you need, and at a good price.
|
|
|
Radium212
Hazard to Self
Posts: 85
Registered: 26-6-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pyrophoric.
|
|
I think sulphuric acid also works.
|
|
|
The Austrian Scientist
Harmless
Posts: 30
Registered: 1-1-2018
Location: Austria
Member Is Offline
Mood: Analytical
|
|
Ni does not disolve in HCl. You could use dilute HNO3 or ad a bit of H2O2 to the HCl to disolve it.
Here are some Ideas for compounds:
[Ni(NH3)6]Cl2 or (NO3)2
[Ni(N2H4)3](NO3)2
Ni(OAc)2
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7976
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
It's a pity you paid that amount of money for such impure nickel. The impurities stronly interfere in complex formation complexes. Both iron and
copper form strongly colored complexes with many coordinating agents.
Much better to buy pure nickel metal (e.g. element samples, or powdered nickel) at better than 99.5% purity. You also can buy nickel oxide. You can
easily dissolve that in hydrochloric acid to get nickel chloride solutions.
--------------------------------
Interesting nickel complexes to make are the ammonia complex (hexammine nickel(II)), periodato complexes, ethylene diamine complexes. All of these
complexes can be crystallized easily and they have vibrant colors.
|
|
|
FlaskBreaker
Harmless
Posts: 14
Registered: 31-12-2017
Location: The 5th Dimension
Member Is Offline
Mood: Convoluted
|
|
Nickel Oxalate is a neat compound. You need basic nickel carbonate and oxalic acid. If you heat it up enough, It will create very fine nickel powder,
which is pyrophoric in air. (If finely dispersed enough.)
I can also confirm that HCl will not dissolve nickel. You need a strongly oxidizing acid or a solution of an oxidizer and acid. For example, a
solution of H2O2 and acetic acid will make nickel acetate, while acetic acid alone will not do this.
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thank you for the suggestions!!
I will look out for the coins  . At the time i ordered the Nickel i couldnt find
pure stuff at a reasonable price.
I have Nitric acid, so maybe I will start there and try and purify the Nickel I have. I am still waiting for my Oxalic acid!! Above 10% its extremely
hard to get now in the UK (legally).
Some interesting ideas for salts though. I will do some research and see if I can get this to a better purity. Or I will melt it for Anodes or some
other electro chem experiments.
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well that was quick!!
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/i560113a012?journalCode=...
from that paper it looks like, oxalic Acid then Ammonium Hydroxide should separate out the Iron, I have a fairly good list of the impurities and % of
each (this is what made me think the original source was coins). It might be interesting to experiment with purifying the Nickel after all!
Sometimes buying is better than making, i dont need the Nickel for anything specific. So this is one of those times where the learning out weighs the
cost. It seems alot can be learnt from purifying this, if i cant get it pure then i will buy some for the complexes etc.
I admit we went on a spending frenzy with equipment and chemicals, having waited nearly 6 months to spend our savings, when the time came we got
carried away  .
The Vanadium Pentoxide was a huge mistake! I wanted a powerful desiccant and mixed the names up!! So i ended up spending over £120 on 1KG of Vanadium
Pentoxide!! Then discovered it wasnt actually what I wanted lol.
Dont be surprised to see it pop up on ebay soon . I will keep some back for
experiments, but probably only around 50g, so just 950g to get rid of
The other mistake was not having my glasses on, i use alot of Magnesium carbonate, so i ordered 2KG of it, only when it turned up, it turns out I
ordered Magnesium SORBATE!
Absolutely no idea what I am going to use that for! Lesson for the day..... Stop buying as soon as you feel the spending frenzy taking hold lol.
[Edited on 1-1-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
[Edited on 1-1-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I also notice Ferric Chloride dissolves Nickel really fast, i have some for etching pcb boards (40 Baume i think), then the Nickel and Iron can be
separated by use of a soluble ammine complex with the nickel.
http://lanthanumkchemistry.over-blog.com/article-the-dissolv...
Anyone got any ideas for a suitable and reach ammine to use?
Forget it! I was in stupid mode! Obviously adding Ammonia would give...... DOH
[Edited on 1-1-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
agas lucky day! I have some pics, but first two confessions...
Last night a couple of friends of my mum came around for new year. Being 17 1/2 i have NEVER tasted Alcohol!! Apart from pain killers etc, i havnt
touched it before because I hate even the smell of it.
My mums friends decided last night would be the perfect time to give me my first drink!! So i had Champagne for the first time! A glass of 2008
vintage Moet (YUCK!), and a forgotten number of glasses, of Vintage Bollinger Champagne (MMmmmm man that stuff is so buttery and delicious!!).
So today I am a bit messed up!
Confession 2
Because of confession 1, i stuffed up the first experiment from above lol. I thought I would try dissolving the Nickel in Ferric Chloride, i totally
forgot the acidified part though! I also added Ammonium Chloride!
I am sure the ammonium chloride I used has had it though, no ammonia smell and it seems damp. Its kept in the correct containers but alot of my chems
seem to get damp. I am thinking of keeping them in a large food type plastic container (each in the proper container, but inside the larger food one),
I will put the desiccator packets in there as well and tape the lids shut!).
Anyway I added some (1.2ml) of 32% ammonia to it. its sitting stiring away now, but obviously all i got is brown mud and Nickel flakes!
Just for accuracy
~0.50g Nickel chips (found another container, these are 99.09% pure) impurities are Ni 99.09% Fe 0.28%,Mn 0.24%,C 0.10%
20ml water with 0.77g Ammonium Chloride (this could be no good as above)
~1.2ml 32% Ammonia
~ 3ml 39B Ferric Chloride
Pics below, I will obviously do this again properly tomorrow, once the headache has gone .
Edit
Actually i am wrong about the ferric chloride! its 40-42% with 0.1% HCl in it, so I guess it was slightly acidified .
![20180101_201415(0)[1].jpg - 2.4MB](http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=502173&aid=63729) ![20180101_194712[1].jpg - 2.4MB](http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=502173&aid=63731) ![20180101_210632[2].jpg - 2.3MB](http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=502173&aid=63733)
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
There should be affordable bags of 55-81 CAN nickels for sale still; it's only .999. H with Ni and B or Al is useful in certain reductions.
Precipitated nickel is also interesting.
[Edited on 1-1-2018 by S.C. Wack]
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  | | There should be affordable bags of 55-81 CAN nickels for sale still; it's only .999. H with Ni and B or Al is useful in certain reductions.
|
Thx for that, are they still legal tender? I wonder what rules (technically) you would be breaking by importing currency into the uk?? There is bound
to be some bloody rule .
Seriously though thanks, I will keep an eye out for some, i did find a container of 200g 99.01% Nickel flakes at the back of a cupboard, i completely
forgot i had it!! Its been there a while now.
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
Of course they're legal. But wait, there's more. NL and FR also made .999 Ni coinage.
10 Cent (1948-2001)
25 Cent (1948-2001)
1 Guilder (1967-2001)
2.5 Guilder (1969-2001)
5 Guilder (1987-2001)
1/2 Franc (1966 - 2000)
1 Franc (1960 - 2000)
2 Franc (1979 - 2000)
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack | Of course they're legal. But wait, there's more. NL and FR also made .999 Ni coinage.
10 Cent (1948-2001)
25 Cent (1948-2001)
1 Guilder (1967-2001)
2.5 Guilder (1969-2001)
5 Guilder (1987-2001)
1/2 Franc (1966 - 2000)
1 Franc (1960 - 2000)
2 Franc (1979 - 2000) |
I couldnt find quantities on UK ebay, also the dates for Canadian coins with Nickel were slightly different in wikipedia (not that wiki is the be all
and end all lol).
Do you have a link from where you saw the bags for sale? I can follow links to ebay in the states etc, but I dont seem to be able to bring a page up
on its own, i click ebay and get uk ebay each time.
Thanks alot for the list! thats really helpful.
EDIT
its ok i found a way
cant find the Canadian bags though. might have lost my ebay FOO today lol
[Edited on 2-1-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Woohoo ! Photos ! Yay !
Keep them coming NEMO.
Ebay has some stuff that *might* be as described :-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7M-8mmx-0-1mm-Pure-Ni-Plate-Nicke...
Other similar items say 'Plated' so it would be best to contact the seller to confirm if those are solid Ni.
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi praise indeed! this post has been framed!
Thx aga, but i have Nickel now, actually i had some good stuff all along! I had totally forgotten about it!
My defense was my first ever hangover! never again for sure!! Seems like people are collecting Nickel as an alternative to silver hoarding??? Seems
odd to me!
I got some stuff coming tomorrow, so got to make room today. I hope to do some chemistry later though. I dont have any yet but, I got to thinking
about the fish and chip process. Wonder if it dissolves Nickel? Turns out very little actually dissolves it easily.
Apparently Nicker (maybe just the salts??) is carcinogenic! Bit odd seeing as so many coins contained it. Obviously i am looking for war time Nickels!
It seems they cut the Nickel in them and replaced with silver, mainly because they needed the Nickel at the time!
Right back to the lab ....
Its great being able to take pics! No expensive camera to fret over lol
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This stuff refuses point blank to dissolve!! I have thrown everything at it. Time to get serious and unleash the heat and heavy duty chems!! I dont
have Peroxide at the moment, but i still want to give Vit C a go first.
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7976
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
@NEMO: I can donate some dutch coins. They are appr. 99.5% nickel, the balance being mostly tin. I made solutions of nickel nitrate from these. I can
send guldens, kwartjes, dubbeltjes. I keep some of these coins around, just as collector's items, but I have quite a few bad looking, mechanically
damaged coins. These of course still are perfectly fine for their nickel contents. Just polish them with coarse sand or put them in acid for a few
minutes to get rid of the outer damaged layer and then transfer them to a clean mix of conc. HNO3 and conc. HCl to get them dissolved for making a
nearly pure solution of nickel(II).
From experiments with dutch coins I know that nickel metal indeed does not dissolve easily in acids. You really need an oxidizing solution to dissolve
them. Once you do that, you get a nice bright green solution of nickel(II).
[Edited on 3-1-18 by woelen]
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7976
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry | The Vanadium Pentoxide was a huge mistake! I wanted a powerful desiccant and mixed the names up!! So i ended up spending over £120 on 1KG of Vanadium
Pentoxide!! Then discovered it wasnt actually what I wanted lol.
Dont be surprised to see it pop up on ebay soon . I will keep some back for
experiments, but probably only around 50g, so just 950g to get rid of
|
Keep a little more of it. You can make quite a few very interesting salts of it.
One interesting compound is sodium orthovanadate, Na3VO4. You can make this by dissolving it in as little as possible of a solution of NaOH and
allowing this to evaporate to dryness.
Another interesting one is making ammonium metavanadate. You can dissolve V2O5 in moderately concentrated ammonia to make this. Use excess ammonia and
allow to evaporate to dryness.
Most interesting is making of deep blue vanadyl compounds. The vanadyl ion, VO(2+), is a beautiful blue (like copper(II) ions, but somewhat brighter
and more strongly colored). You can make vanadyl compounds by dissolving sodium orthovanadate in water, and then acidifying this compound until an
acidic yellow solution of pervanadyl ion is obtained, VO2(+) and then add sodium metabisulfitein order to convert the pervanadyl to vanadyl. If you
want to synthesize vanadyl sulfate, then you can best add V2O5 to dilute sulphuric acid and bubble sulphur dioxide through this and have it reduced in
that way. This reaction is slow though. Maybe you can use formic acid or oxalic acid as reductor, but I have no personal experience with that.
|
|
|
Rhodanide
Hazard to Others
Posts: 348
Registered: 23-7-2015
Location: Ｔｈｅ ８０ｓ
Member Is Offline
Mood: That retro aesthetic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry | I have always wanted to do some Nickel chemistry. Getting hold of Nickel isnt always easy though, i know some older coins were made from it, but i
dont know which!!
in the end I paid £20 for 280g Nickel shavings, these are 94% pure, most the impurities are Iron (3.4%) and Copper (1.4%), which makes me think these
came from coins originally?
Anyway, anyone got some suggestions on what salts,complexes or compounds i could make that are interesting?
I guess the first one should be dissolve some in HCl and make the chloride? |
Hexaammine Nickel (II) Chloride is also a cool reaction. Where I live, it tends to get cold during the night (usually in the negatives) which lends
itself to easier precipitation of the Ammine. All you need to do is dissolve NiCl2 in aqueous Ammonia, which will form a very deep purple-blue
solution. If your solution is cooled sufficiently after this, you should start to see the purple Ammine complex precipitate out as tiny, needle-like
crystals. If you filter, dry, then store it, it can be isolated as the pure powder. Don't leave it in warm air for a long while, though. It can
decompose that way.
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I did that reaction in one of my videos - you can also crash the solid out by adding (lots of) acetone! Not pretty crystals like the slow method, but
beautiful purple nonetheless.
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thx guys, those are really good ideas!!
I will break out the Nitric acid and HCl later and get some the nickel in solution . The Vanadium Chemistry sounds interesting, i got a large amount of sodium Hydroxide prills.
Plenty to think about now!
|
|
|
Rhodanide
Hazard to Others
Posts: 348
Registered: 23-7-2015
Location: Ｔｈｅ ８０ｓ
Member Is Offline
Mood: That retro aesthetic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist | | I did that reaction in one of my videos - you can also crash the solid out by adding (lots of) acetone! Not pretty crystals like the slow method, but
beautiful purple nonetheless. |
Yeah, but I like the nice crystals as opposed to a powder. Also, wouldn't the
reaction make Ammonium Chloride as well? (and wouldn't it co-precipitate?)
[Edited on 3-1-2018 by Tetra]
[Edited on 3-1-2018 by Tetra]
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hm good question. Wiki states NH<sub>4</sub>Cl is "slightly soluble" in acetone, so you might get away with washing the product several
times with the solvent. But it will decompose over time in air as the ammonia escapes and revert back to green nickel(II) chloride, so it might not
last long enough to wash!
I never noticed extra crystals; the whole thing is a nice uniform purple (NH<sub>4</sub>Cl could be embedded in it though, I guess).
|
|
|
NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
What about Iodine and Nickel with a drop of water? I am thinking heat nickel in a tube and them pass iodine vapor over it
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
