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Author: Subject: Gitting rid of Cl2
Sauron
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[*] posted on 14-3-2007 at 22:53


Probably need an environmental impact statement first. Also in that part of the workd, driving pipes in the ground often leads to flammable black stuff coming back at you with some force. OK I'm being facetious, but how is this proposal superior to, or more easily done than, release in a covered pit or staged release to the open air?

All such actions are risky, compared to binding the gas chemically in a less hazardous form. No one (except maybe the enemy) would want this to turn into a cause celebre that would give the US a black eye. Remember that we are dealing with something that once upon a time was a war gas and MUCH more recently has been perverted for that same purpose. Lethally, against civilians. (which makes the perps no better than Saddam, but we knew that already.) We don't need any snafus that give anyone an asinine "moral equivalence" argument. Maybe we don't need to turn it into NaCl but at least make it cease to be chlorine, then store it or bury it or something politically and militarily acceptable.
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[*] posted on 15-3-2007 at 03:22


How about this, make the calcium hypochlorite, then dump in some scrap iron. Eventually the iron will corrode away, regardless of shape, and the hypochlorite will mostly cease to be. A completely hands-free way to dispose of the oxidation, while being relatively quick to remove the gas.

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Maya
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[*] posted on 15-3-2007 at 04:13


Doesn't sound like you have much choice about it, you gotta get rid of it and have minimal neutralizing chemicals + very little water = there is no choice but one if you want to get dispose of it in a practical manner.

take the tanks out where there is no one and just open the valves a bit enough to let it leak out over a few days

Sorry , but I don't see an alternative and Cl2 isn't that bad in tiny diluted quantities, your only environmentally non-time/ labor intensive way is Calcium hydroxide, and thats not an option.

Actually, you have no options I see but for setting the contents free............




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Sauron
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[*] posted on 15-3-2007 at 05:37


Did I miss something? I didn't see @Sarge rule out the Ca(OH)2 method or any of the others for that matter. He said something about requisitioning chemicals. Joked about the clerks at the supply depot having a fit.
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[*] posted on 15-3-2007 at 05:53


He does need mass quantities of it,

I was just suggesting a quick painless way to get rid of the headache now




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[*] posted on 15-3-2007 at 06:01


I crunched the numbers and reported them above, he didn't appear to be intimidated by them.
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[*] posted on 24-3-2007 at 10:37


how about 1800 Kg of sugar and enough water to dissolve it all,


you can use vinegar as a catalyst for chlorination by CLO2
{CL2 might work with a stronger catalyst}
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Sauron
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[*] posted on 24-3-2007 at 17:08


Great handle.
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[*] posted on 15-5-2007 at 23:59


How is the disposal going? I think we all would be interested in how you all are going about it.

My idea is probably a bit to late, but for what it's worth... I don't think it has been mentioned.
If you mix equal amounts (moles or volume, same thing) of carbon monoxide gas with your Cl gas and pass it over Calcium Oxide you should get anhydrous calcium chloride, which wouldn't pose a disposal problem anymore. So this would be completely water free.
CO could come from a horribly polluting engine (running rich?) or a normal engine's exhaust (mainly CO2) passed through a tube filled with glowing hot charcoal, generating CO.

If I'm not mistaken, CaO is the main component in Portland cement (not concrete, but just the cement powder). You probably could substitute CaO with other oxides, such as iron oxide.

-Alan
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[*] posted on 28-5-2007 at 20:38


No brackish water here amazingly enough.

I am currently mixing the Cl2 in a solution that includes Na2CO3. There is a white-ish precipitate forming on the bottom of one of my containers. Am I making salt? I thought about popping some corn and testing it out... but decided to ask you good gents instead!

Oh and get this, we are getting about 10 tons more Cl2 comming in. Yea.

[Edited on 29-5-2007 by SsgtHAZMAT]
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[*] posted on 28-5-2007 at 20:52


Likely, as NaCl will have the lowest solubility of the more likely compounds, provided it's warm. Look close at a bit up up, salt will have cubic crystals. It's solubility doesn't change much with temperature while Na2CO3 does, another fairly simple test.
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[*] posted on 28-5-2007 at 22:06


Heat we have. Heck, the low yesterday was 102 deg F. During the day I suspect the solution containers reach 120 - 130 deg F.
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[*] posted on 28-5-2007 at 23:52


How about crushed limestone? You may be able to source truckloads of that locally over there in sand-land. A column filled with CaCO3 gravel in water, with Cl entering from the bottom and optionally a slow current of water going counter current to the Cl flow. I think the reaction should look like this:

Cl2 + CaCO3 --> Ca(ClO)2 + CO2

I suppose a reducent would be necessary to get plain old CaCl if the hypochlorite is unacceptable.

Have you tried the Cl2 plus iron scrap in water yet? I think if you have 10 metric tonnes of chlorine, you would need about 16 tonnes of iron if it was all turned into ferric chloride. You said you have plenty of scrap around... hopefully you have a lot of oxy/acetyl to cut that much up into manageable pieces for reaction. The reaction might be too slow, however.

-Alan

[Edited on 28-5-2007 by alancj]
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[*] posted on 29-5-2007 at 00:05


No, CaCO3 wont work, you need hydrated quicklime (Ca(OH)2).

If I had to dispose of a lot of chlorine, I would fill plastic pipes with powdered Ca(OH)2 and introduce the chlorine into it.
1kg hydrated quicklime absorbs 340g chlorine, so that an active chlorine content of 34% is reached.
You get simple bleaching powder CaCl(OCl)/Ca(OH)2. This can be stored without danger and for very long periods of time.
The advantage is that no water has to be present for the Ca(OH)2 to react with the chlorine- a dry powder reacts with the chlorine, to form another dry powder that is a useful product.




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[*] posted on 29-5-2007 at 00:35


Quote:
Originally posted by garage chemist
No, CaCO3 wont work, you need hydrated quicklime (Ca(OH)2).


Then what is he doing with Na2CO3? I would think CaCO3 could be directly substituted.
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[*] posted on 29-5-2007 at 01:18


Na2CO3 reacts basic, CaCO3 doesnt.
Also, dry Na2CO3 will not react with chlorine, it must be used as a solution. CaCO3 can obviously not be used like that.




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[*] posted on 29-5-2007 at 02:04


It is in solution of about 3lbs to 500lbs of H2O.

Does the Ca(OH)2 need to be in solution or just packed in cylinders?
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[*] posted on 29-5-2007 at 02:07


I already explained it, no water is added!
The Ca(OH)2 is used in dry powder form in cylinders.




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[*] posted on 6-6-2007 at 21:57


Thanks!

Another item, the powers that be suggested that we pass the gas through a tube of charcoal, mostly from grill charcoal briquettes, I don't see how this would do anything. Your thoughts?
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[*] posted on 6-6-2007 at 23:05


No. charcoal is pretty much inert



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[*] posted on 7-6-2007 at 01:31


It may react with Cl2 to form CCl4.
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[*] posted on 7-6-2007 at 02:53


Wouldn't it have to be ground up and maybe in solution? I thought it had to be CS3 or Methane to get carbon to bind to CL3

I have never seen charcoal used in that way, but I don't run a lab either. And stuck here you guys are about my only reference!


[Edited on 7-6-2007 by SsgtHAZMAT]
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[*] posted on 7-6-2007 at 03:42


The only thing you could use the charcoal for is to generate carbon monoxide, which could be mixed with your Cl in a 1:1 ratio, and passed over CaO to give CaCl2; as I mentioned in a previous post. Other oxides would probably work too. You're right; carbon doesn't react with Cl that easy. Maybe it was meant to absorb the Cl into activated carbon? I don't know about that... just guessing.

-Alan
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[*] posted on 7-6-2007 at 09:40


I can only imagine that they meant to absorb it on activated charcoal. That doesn't really help a lot ( though chlorine on charcoal is less tempting as a terrorist target than cylinders).
The other problem is that barbecue charcoal isn't the same as activated charcoal.
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