SsgtHAZMAT
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This is a new one....
....with my limited references available this one has me stumped. (Yes I am on the net but it took an act of god to get me to this site and CNN so....
)
Anyway, we have a barrel...
It was opened...
It WAS a liquid....
It became a powder and then a noticeable crystals.
Any ideas?
( I know this is very little to go on but I have not received any info yet on odor, time frame of transformation, or any markings on the item. I did
scare the heck out of the grunts! )
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12AX7
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Solution with a salt dissolved?!
Have to see at least rudimentary descriptions of crystal habit and reactions to acid, base, etc.
Tim
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Levi
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What color was the liquid? What color are the crystals? Was the container vacuum sealed?
Lots of substances can exhibit this behavior, a super saturated solution, when agitated, can precipitate a lot of material but assuming there was
absolutely no liquid left I'd say something had to have evaporated. Were the crystals cold? They may simply be ice crystals and frost caused by a
sudden drop in pressure when the container was opened.
EDIT:
On that note, the substance left in the container may simply be atmospheric moisture while the liquid boiled away on opening. If this is the case,
the surrounding area may not be safe for people!
[Edited on 19-3-2007 by Levi]
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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YT2095
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Crystal shape, and Melting point data would be useful too, have you done a PH test (litmus paper)?
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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Sauron
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@Sarge, if you aren't equipped to analyze, and you think this stuff could be something active then I would suggest just taking a sample and sending it
somewhere equipped to check it out properly.
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Pyridinium
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Look at the bright side, if it was an, uh, 'agent' of some type, the person who opened the barrel wouldn't be in such hot shape right now. Although
I assume you guys had gear on (!).
Can someone take a small amount of these crystals and check the m.p. in a capillary tube (provided they are thermostable)?
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Sauron
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I think a m.p. determination is premature, because I see no reason to assume that this residue is a single compound and not a mixture.
Also strong chance of this being ionic (inorganic salet) in which case m.p. may be quite high. Higher than can be measured with a capillary and a
thiele tube/mineral oil.
Compound or mixture could be explosive. Chemical toxicity isn't only hazard.
I'd start with a few very simple tests
1. Solubility. Is it safe to assume that what evaporated was water? Maybe, maybe not. Redissolve some in water. Try to dissolve in hydrocarbon.
2. Flammability. Try to ignite a small sample.
3. Thermal stability. Try melting some on a hot stage.
If it's thermally stable and won't burn it's not an explosive. Could still be an exidizer (like, KClO4) You could react a small sample with conc
H2SO4 (cautiously) and you will know if it's a chlorate.
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SsgtHAZMAT
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Working on getting the data now. Have to go armor up to see the site and interview the people. It could be a big case of Marines just getting
scaired and, what I call, "story blow up."
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Sauron
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Most likely but I am sure you need to err on the side of caution if you err at all.
I don't suppose you know my pal Jack McGeorge? Ex jarhead EOD, ex Secret Service WH detail, was a UN inspector with Hans Blix, only one who found
anything? Short feisty guy, really knows his stuff. He's back in DC now. Actually in Woodbridge just outside Quantico.
[Edited on 20-3-2007 by Sauron]
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SsgtHAZMAT
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No I dont know him. Sorry!
I issued orders for no one to get near this stuff. Got to go get out the SCBA.....
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The_Davster
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Why must it have been a solvent that evaporated? It could have been a very air sensitive liquid that reacted with the air making a solid product.
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Sauron
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Not impossible, but not very probable. Occam's razor.
Most likely solvent water
Less likely solvent something organic. No one seems to have smelled anything.
Least likely a rxn with the air and phase change to solid.
After all it is the desert and water (or anything else) will evaporate at a frightful rate. We still have not been told how long it took for this
"barrel" to dry out. Or how full it was or how much volume the solid occupies or how much it weighs. Is it dry all the way to bottom? We do not know.
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SsgtHAZMAT
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OK, we figured out what it was.
A common household cleaner called I think, "LimeAway."
As usual, the story I got was not what happened, at least not as fast as it happened.
It did scare the crap out of a lot of people!!!
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not_important
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At least the nail-biting is over, and perhaps it can serve as an example on why it is important to get thing clear and correct
http://www.pp.msu.edu/cust/Safety/MSDS_Webs/MSDS%20Pages/Lim...
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Sauron
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Some of those common household chemicals of course combined with other common household chemicals are not so benign.
What exactly is limeaway? sounds like something to dissolve hard water stains on kitchen and bathroom fixtures. Any info on the composition?
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Pyridinium
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
What exactly is limeaway? sounds like something to dissolve hard water stains on kitchen and bathroom fixtures. Any info on the composition?
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I have a bottle of it right here. Ingredients: Sulfamic, citric, and hydroxyacetic acids.
EDIT: for some, the name glycolic acid might be more familiar than "hydroxyacetic"
[Edited on 24-3-2007 by Pyridinium]
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Sauron
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OK, sulfamic acid is very useful for neutralizing strong alkilis, citric acid is as harmless as lemonade, and glycollic acid AFAIK is not a thread to
anyone/anything. Yes these would work well for removing hard water stains on porcelien etc. Cancel the MOPP gear.
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SsgtHAZMAT
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Yea really. You would not believe the dumb things people do around here.
Esp when the mission tempo goes through the roof like in an opp when you are getting shot at and stuff.
We had one group that walked right into a compound where I swear they must have been making smack. Just barrels of either and acetone sitting around
and a 3rd grade chemistry set and these morons in there smoking away..... I about had a heart attack.
We got rid of all that with a little thermite. Took out the whole compound.
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Sauron
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That would do it!
Good riddance. Anyway you said acetone? I don't suppose they also had hydrogen peroxide and some mineral acid?
In which case they were not making smack but something more ominous.
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