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Author: Subject: Acetone Peroxide question
Bogdonovan
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 02:17
Acetone Peroxide question


Hi everyone, I want to make some TATP for an experiment I'm doing about homemade explosives. I have found a guide to make TATP with 65ml of hydrochloric acid, 35ml of acetone, and 35ml of hydrogen. I can get all of these in concentrations of about 12%. I am asking here because I have done research and it seems to be pointing that 12% is enough, however I would rather ask around some more rather than blowing my hands off. The question is if a 12% concentration of hydrogen, acetone and hydrochloric acid is enough to make Tri Acetone Tri Peroxide. The guide also says to put it in my fridge for 2 days, and many other ones I have found say the same as well. The second question is, is there anything I can add to the mixture to potentially make it less friction sensitive? Thanks for reading.
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NeonPulse
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 02:48


For a first experiment I would cut that amount by at least 1/4. Organic peroxides are a bad idea but if you must do it then try milligram amounts to start with. Leaving it in a fridge is a No no too. Use an ice bath and keep it away from anywhere that you don’t want damaged in case of a mishap. And finally 12% is enough. Even 3% will work but you just need more peroxide. Furthermore I would probably suggest to not make it in the first place but if your set on it nobody can really stop you.



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Bogdonovan
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 02:54


Quote: Originally posted by NeonPulse  
For a first experiment I would cut that amount by at least 1/4. Organic peroxides are a bad idea but if you must do it then try milligram amounts to start with. Leaving it in a fridge is a No no too. Use an ice bath and keep it away from anywhere that you don’t want damaged in case of a mishap. And finally 12% is enough. Even 3% will work but you just need more peroxide. Furthermore I would probably suggest to not make it in the first place but if your set on it nobody can really stop you.


Thanks for the reply, I am looking for a safer substitute to TATP, but I am just not finding anything that can be made as easily. I have made some gunpowder a bit of time ago, but that is all pretty simple stuff. I'm looking for something with a little more bang to it. I have looked into chlorates too, I believe that could bring some easier results. Regardless, thanks for replying.
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markx
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 03:23


There really are no simple solutions when it comes to relative safety and energetics. There also are no feasible ways to make peroxides predictable or tame. As already mentioned, your best bet is to keep the quantities to a minimum and not expect to store any product if you just can't be talked out of doing it.

In general I would suggest to defer from the idea to start exploring the realm of energetics starting from the peroxide department...in fact I would leave that department well alone altogether.





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XeonTheMGPony
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 03:58


with a bit of effort and minimal glass wear you can make nitro esters that have been used for 100's of years with a good safety track record.

I made a batch of both TATP and HMTD as a novelty laugh, yes it was easy, but the unpredictability and safety issues make them non viable for any thing really.

With that said, use only well cleaned glass wear, do not use metals at any point in the reaction, ensure all reagents are clean (If possible distill the acetone).

have every step well planed, and under no circumstance ever allow it to be confined to the very last moment! it takes very little to allow it to go full high order!
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 04:00


I strongly advice against making acetone peroxide in such large quantities. Even a few grams can remove fingers or make you blind.

If you want to play with energetics, then try other routes, and always work with small quantities. Do not make more than a few hundreds of mg of an explosive compound, and even then, be careful. An amount of 100 mg can shatter a test tube and if this happens close to your face the effect can still be quite nasty.




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highpower48
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 07:10


Anyone have a problem with the fact that the poster became a user on 4/4/18 and on his second post was asking about making a acetone peroxide explosive? Kind of worries me .....
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dillee1
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 08:03


1st of all TATP is a primary explosive, with friction/impact sensitivity btw lead azide and mercury fulminate. Primaries are useful for setting off less sensitive secondary high explosives. They are way too dangerous to be used beyond minigram range. Are you sure primaries are what you want?

FYI please read [primary explosives] by Robert Matyáš & Jiří Pachman. The book contains detail synthesis method, and more importantly sensitivity figures. A must read to get some idea what are you going to deal with.
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Texium (zts16)
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[*] posted on 4-4-2018 at 08:36


Quote: Originally posted by highpower48  
Anyone have a problem with the fact that the poster became a user on 4/4/18 and on his second post was asking about making a acetone peroxide explosive? Kind of worries me .....
I do. This is ridiculous. OP even refers to hydrogen peroxide as "hydrogen" which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Obviously the OP is very inexperienced with chemistry and doesn't have any business making something like acetone peroxide. And we don't have any business encouraging it.

@Bogdonovan: please look into chlorates instead if you must do energetics. It's safer, and you'll learn more. There is a ton of information available on this forum on the subject.




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