Not logged in [Login - Register]
 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Non-chemistry » Detritus » Trolls, Inerts and Pretenders Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum

Author: Subject: Trolls, Inerts and Pretenders
aga
Forum Drunkard

Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline

Trolls, Inerts and Pretenders

Not actually Doing any Chemistry is fine.

Some people can't, for a variety of reasons, yet have an avid interest.

Not being able to say what you are Doing is also fine, for a wide variety of reasons.

Speculation is also fine, so long as it is stated as such.

Claiming to have direct experience of a thing that you have Not done is what is called a Lie.

Unfortunately the forum is infested with a number of Liars at the moment.

Sadly the Format is immediately identifiable, given a vast number of same-same kind of posts. It isn't even interesting anymore.

It's a Signal-to-Noise kinda problem.

They are relatively hard to spot unless you are not quite 'right' in the head, so please do not put any blame on the Excellent team of Mods that this site has.

If i were given Mod privs, a number of users, and most of their posts, would be deleted immediately.

That's a good reason why i should Never have those privs.

For the record, Akhil Jain appears to be the last Real New person who came here actually Doing Amateur Chemistry.

His utoob videos are quite good - shows Raw and Real Chemistry actually happening every time.

I typed up a list of the users i would remove, then removed that list, as even parasites need food, also the right to live, just not Here. Please ?

Loptr
International Hazard

Posts: 1138
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Grateful

aga, what wrong? You sound like you need a hug.

"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
TheMrbunGee
Hazard to Others

Posts: 195
Registered: 13-7-2016
Location: EU
Member Is Offline

Mood: Lookin for a lab

Ethanol?

If you get to the result - you can't be doing it wrong!
aga
Forum Drunkard

Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline

Hugs, not required.

Ethanol, daily. Likely die of it one day.

If you early respond-ees could post a link to your last Actual Experiment, here, on SM, i'd be grateful.
(saves me looking it up)

Loptr
International Hazard

Posts: 1138
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Grateful

Mind if I borrow some of your aga regia? Seems like you are in no short supply.

"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
j_sum1
Super Moderator

Posts: 4183
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Offline

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

You may well be right aga but it is really difficult to know for sure what is going on with any individual. All you really have is speculations.
Adding to the complexity is the fact that some members have more than one account. This sock-puppetry is against forum rules but difficult to police. We generally let such things slide unless they become problematic.

The bottom line is that we wish to welcome new members and encourage a high level of chemistry thinking and experimentation as much as possible. Giving people a hard time because they do not reach a certain standard is counterproductive.

I am going to drop this into Forum Matters for now but expect that in a short time discussion will have run its course and we can deposit it into Detritus.

j_sum1
Super Moderator
25-4-2018 at 15:18
aga
Forum Drunkard

Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline

Ah feck.

Put it where you will - that is in your power.

Detritus is equally fine, as that is where the forum is heading.

Sadly, the trolls are more in control of that than either you or i.

[Edited on 25-4-2018 by aga]

[Edited on 25-4-2018 by aga]

j_sum1
Super Moderator

Posts: 4183
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Oz
Member Is Offline

Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough.

 Quote: Originally posted by aga Sadly, the trolls are more in control of that than either you or i.

Not really. They don't affect my disposition one bit. And the culture of this board is to not put up with nonsense -- so trolls seldom get much of a ride.

Trolling here is pretty pointless. As is troll-witch-hunting.

aga
Forum Drunkard

Posts: 7028
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline

Hmm. Not been here long then, or want Reality to look different ?

I went looking and can't find a single j_sum1 actual experiment.

Is there one and i'm useless at searching ?

Edit:

Data, Grab hold. We're about to be warped to Detritus. Make it so number 1

[Edited on 25-4-2018 by aga]

Tdep
National Hazard

Posts: 450
Registered: 31-1-2013
Location: Broken Lasers
Member Is Offline

Mood: *silence*

His.... Signature?? Not that hard to look. What is this babble

I know I took the bait but I'm bored and up early which makes me grumpy ok

[Edited on 25-4-2018 by Tdep]
Cryolite.
National Hazard

Posts: 262
Registered: 28-6-2016
Location: CA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

Methinks aga is just a very persistent alias of PhDChemist who tries to misdirect attention by pretending to be concerned about trolls on SM
RogueRose
International Hazard

Posts: 1126
Registered: 16-6-2014
Member Is Offline

There do seem to be some that don't search before posting as there are some very detailed threads, often many, about the specific question of which they ask, and they can even be found by using the forum search engine, and even more refined results by using google to search.

Is that some of what you are speaking about aga?

I have to admit that I am also confused when I see some members who post some fairly complex posts and synths and then they make a post that seems like it is on a high school level, almost as if there is more than one person using the account. One that comes to mind is how to make Calcium Acetate, I mean come on, that may be the simplest acetate to make and about as easy as sodium acetate. Eggshells & vinegar (or stronger concentration), or CaCO3 or Ca(OH)2, all of which someone should have who has been doing chem for 4+ years. I ended up making it and answering the thread but the OP seemed to loose interest and never mentioned if they found their answer.

I do know that aga is quick to jump to conclusions about the motives of some members and I and many others were called out as trolls and all of them have gone on to become contributing members of the forum, but I've also seen him chase off MANY members in their first few weeks/months due to his unwelcoming attitude to some members.

One of the funniest posts I've recently seen was aga describing people who post "science" threads but never show pics or results, I guess mainly just speculation or just chit-chat. The member he was attacking looked at all the points aga pointed out, and basically said that aga was describing himself to a "tee" with ~6,500 posts and about 1% related to actual chemistry. THOSE types of posts are the ones that clog the forum, and he had a great point in his rebuttal.

Maybe if someone spent more time doing experiments and posting results, then there wouldn't be so much time to be annoyed by others posts that aren't up to his level.

Many people, especially those newer, don't have equipment to do good chem and this is an expensive hobby, not to mention chem (and glassware) restrictions in some areas. I waited a few years b4 buying good glassware b/c I didn't know if I would loose interest a few months after dumping in $500-$1000 in equipment and I didn't want to waste that $$, but now I've sunk some funds into it b/c my interest has continued (much thanks to many of the members on this forum, by far the best on the net from what I've found!!!!) Maybe a good thread explaining how to use google as the search engine for the site, and make it prominent so that all users see it somehow (possibly a U2U to everyone) and a new page new users see when they sign up? I can help with the tutorial if anyone thinks that might help. I don't want to say aga is making an issue out of nothing, b/c that isn't true, there is a lot of odd behaviour by some members and I've been confused by some of it b/c it seems like some members are trolling at times when other times serious (and they have lots of posts). I don't really have any solutions but can think about it and if others have suggestions please post your thoughts. Vomaturge Hazard to Self Posts: 99 Registered: 21-1-2018 Member Is Offline Mood: thermodynamic  Quote: Originally posted by Cryolite. Methinks aga is just a very persistent alias of PhDChemist who tries to misdirect attention by pretending to be concerned about trolls on SM Sometimes it seems like he's trolling. But he more than makes up for it by being a prolific experimentor, and posting the results for others to learn from. Sometimes he even does experiments to answer other members' questions. I assume I was on the 'Troll, Inert, and Pretender' list. Hate to say it, but the last real description of an experiment of mine is probably this and that wasn't even a fresh one, but one from years before! I actually did a follow-up to that experiment, but due to some problems obtaining conclusive results, and the fact that you kind of had to watch a large (13MB) video I took of it to get any conclusive evidence period, and because I didn't get to carry out this second experiment until the thread had already became dead, I didn't post it. I have ideas to fix all but the last of these problems, so perhaps I should try again on that one.I have actually done some science experiments since then, but for various reasons, have not posted about them here, or asked questions pertaining to them. I don't know that talking on here, discussing chemistry without doing any is really as bad as trolling. Asking questions just to learn theory is constructive in my opinion, although also doing some hands-on experiments to go with those theories is preferable, more fun, and makes for better learning. Likewise, it's ideal if information posted is based on experience, as well as reading. However, that doesn't make sharing information learned in books, or on the web a bad thing, especially if you give a source to go with it. "Faking" experience, saying you have done things you haven't, is another matter entirely. In any, case, I think many of these newcomers (myself included) who ask questions, post opinions and information they have found via research, are actually attempting to learn new stuff, and/or help others learn. They're not necessarily here just to cause trouble. DrEvidence Harmless Posts: 37 Registered: 25-4-2018 Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood Sorry if this hurts anybody, but... [Edit by moderator] Post deleted for being unnecessarily inflammatory and largely unsupported. [Edited on 26-4-2018 by j_sum1] j_sum1 Super Moderator Posts: 4183 Registered: 4-10-2014 Location: Oz Member Is Offline Mood: Metastable, and that's good enough. I seem to recall aga sponsoring a competition to make nitric acid via otc/natural, non-nitrate sources. The challenge was not well framed at the start but once the constraints were ironed out it provoked a lot of interesting discussion. There were a couple of us who took up the challenge and tried some experimenting. All in all it was a worthwhile exercise. And aga paid generously in prize money for efforts in the right direction. So, the accusations of non-experimentation by aga are not really founded. As also are the accusations of aga not contributing. I love the idea of competitions/challenges and I think they are valuable for stirring one another along in the right direction. We have not had one for a while and it might be worth doing another one soon. As for accusations of trolling, multiple identities, being lazy... pursuing these accusations is really not helpful. JJay International Hazard Posts: 3303 Registered: 15-10-2015 Location: Western Hemisphere Member Is Offline Mood: Help! I'm trapped inside the forum software!  Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose There do seem to be some that don't search before posting as there are some very detailed threads, often many, about the specific question of which they ask, and they can even be found by using the forum search engine, and even more refined results by using google to search. Is that some of what you are speaking about aga? I have to admit that I am also confused when I see some members who post some fairly complex posts and synths and then they make a post that seems like it is on a high school level, almost as if there is more than one person using the account. One that comes to mind is how to make Calcium Acetate, I mean come on, that may be the simplest acetate to make and about as easy as sodium acetate. Eggshells & vinegar (or stronger concentration), or CaCO3 or Ca(OH)2, all of which someone should have who has been doing chem for 4+ years. I ended up making it and answering the thread but the OP seemed to loose interest and never mentioned if they found their answer. I do know that aga is quick to jump to conclusions about the motives of some members and I and many others were called out as trolls and all of them have gone on to become contributing members of the forum, but I've also seen him chase off MANY members in their first few weeks/months due to his unwelcoming attitude to some members. One of the funniest posts I've recently seen was aga describing people who post "science" threads but never show pics or results, I guess mainly just speculation or just chit-chat. The member he was attacking looked at all the points aga pointed out, and basically said that aga was describing himself to a "tee" with ~6,500 posts and about 1% related to actual chemistry. THOSE types of posts are the ones that clog the forum, and he had a great point in his rebuttal. Maybe if someone spent more time doing experiments and posting results, then there wouldn't be so much time to be annoyed by others posts that aren't up to his level. Many people, especially those newer, don't have equipment to do good chem and this is an expensive hobby, not to mention chem (and glassware) restrictions in some areas. I waited a few years b4 buying good glassware b/c I didn't know if I would loose interest a few months after dumping in 500-1000 in equipment and I didn't want to waste that$$, but now I've sunk some funds into it b/c my interest has continued (much thanks to many of the members on this forum, by far the best on the net from what I've found!!!!) Maybe a good thread explaining how to use google as the search engine for the site, and make it prominent so that all users see it somehow (possibly a U2U to everyone) and a new page new users see when they sign up? I can help with the tutorial if anyone thinks that might help. I don't want to say aga is making an issue out of nothing, b/c that isn't true, there is a lot of odd behaviour by some members and I've been confused by some of it b/c it seems like some members are trolling at times when other times serious (and they have lots of posts). I don't really have any solutions but can think about it and if others have suggestions please post your thoughts.

Oh wait a sec... calcium acetate? That was my post haha. Calcium acetate is easy to make, but I was looking for a method that didn't require boiling off a lot of water, preferably some sort of precipitation reaction. Boiling off water is easy enough, but while I enjoy doing reactions and distillations, etc, boiling off water seems like a chore, so I try to avoid it whenever possible. I ended up just dissolving chalk in hot vinegar, filtering, and boiling off most of the water under an aspirator then putting what was left in an oven.

This is my YouTube channel: Extreme Red Cabbage. I don't have much posted, but I try to do nice writeups once in a while.
elementcollector1
International Hazard

Posts: 2580
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline

Mood: Molten

Well, I know I'm on the list for inactivity. That's more for financial reasons than anything else, but hopefully it'll change for the better soon.

Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Ge
Texium (zts16)
Super Moderator

Posts: 2978
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: San Marcos, TX
Member Is Offline

Mood: Organiking

This is as silly and useless as it's ever been. If you want to talk about this more, aga, U2U me. DON'T bring this garbage up publicly ever again.

Texium (zts16)
Super Moderator