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Author: Subject: sciencelab .com
jim30082
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[*] posted on 7-4-2007 at 07:30
sciencelab .com


You might want to be careful doing business with sciencelab.com. I have been trying to get some products sent or a refund for over 1 year. Now you only get answering machines and calls and e-mails are not returned.
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[*] posted on 7-4-2007 at 11:17


I had given some thought to ordering from them. Why do you think they are giving you a hard time? Are they unfriendly toward individual buyers? Have you bought from them before?



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[*] posted on 7-4-2007 at 11:23


Don't be dense. They took his money, did not deliver, have dodged him for >1 year, have made no refund despite demands and now just use an answering machine. It's a SCAM. They are RIPOFFS.

Anyone with half a brain would have concluded that just from their insane high pricing.

At the very least they are guilty of federal mail fraud.
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[*] posted on 7-4-2007 at 11:45


They were OK. I ordered from them twice, and once everything was fine, they delivered and the chemicals were of satisfactory grade.

The second time, they grabbed the money, and refuse to answer emails, phone calls, legal threats etc.

Just stay away from them.

[Edited on 7-4-2007 by PainKilla]




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Sauron
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[*] posted on 7-4-2007 at 12:20


I daresay, had they screwed you the first time, you would never have sent them more money...

Operations like sciencelab.com prey on amateur chemists, and illicit chemists, they seem to take the attitude that all of their customers are drug cooks and that therefore it is OK to rip them off.

When I encounter an overpriced Internet only flybynight vendor like that I always suspect that they are some sort of intel gathering sting op, but that's just because I know how the govts like to work.
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[*] posted on 7-4-2007 at 18:09


What on earth suggests that they are going after 'drug cooks'?
I looked at their supposed inventory, and it didn't look 'drug cook' at all to me. In contrast, KNO3.com, recently discussed on this forum, had RP and I2 prominently on the front page.

I had come across their webpage some time ago, so I don't know that fly-by-night applies... I never tried to order from them, however. Very possibly because of high prices.
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Sauron
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[*] posted on 7-4-2007 at 22:14


I have not examined their inventory, merely run across them as Google entries when searching for some materials, I do not search for drug precursors, so really cannot say but I would be surprised if they did not claim to sell RP, I2 etc. Perhaps not as prominentlky promoted as that now busted Brit operation.

What I said was admittedly surmise only, but who else would be the prospective clientele of an Internet based repack shop offering small packs of organic chemicals at exorbidant prices?

Commercial and institutional labs buy from the usual suspects:

Aldrich, Merck, Acros, Fisher, Fluka, Sigma, Eastman, Alfa/Aesar.

Their prices are high enough but sciencelab.com's prices always appeared to me to be MUCH higher.

So who would ever buy from them except customers that Aldrich etc won't touch with a ten foot pole?

Aldrich vets every new account with DEA. Every one foreign or domestic.

I buy from them, from Merck, from Acros, Ajax, Fluka, Panreac and Carlo Erba via their agents in South East Asia where I am located, but I have a licensed registered corporation to do so.

So, you tell me who the potential clientele for sciencelab.com, per their own business plan if they had one, might have been?

I can only think of two groups desperate enough to think about paying those prices.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 07:07


Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
I have not examined their inventory, merely run across them as Google entries when searching for some materials, I do not search for drug precursors, so really cannot say but I would be surprised if they did not claim to sell RP, I2 etc. Perhaps not as prominentlky promoted as that now busted Brit operation.

What I said was admittedly surmise only, but who else would be the prospective clientele of an Internet based repack shop offering small packs of organic chemicals at exorbidant prices?

Commercial and institutional labs buy from the usual suspects:

Aldrich, Merck, Acros, Fisher, Fluka, Sigma, Eastman, Alfa/Aesar.

Their prices are high enough but sciencelab.com's prices always appeared to me to be MUCH higher.

So who would ever buy from them except customers that Aldrich etc won't touch with a ten foot pole?

Aldrich vets every new account with DEA. Every one foreign or domestic.

I buy from them, from Merck, from Acros, Ajax, Fluka, Panreac and Carlo Erba via their agents in South East Asia where I am located, but I have a licensed registered corporation to do so.

So, you tell me who the potential clientele for sciencelab.com, per their own business plan if they had one, might have been?

I can only think of two groups desperate enough to think about paying those prices.


I don't think that Sciencelab's only customer is the clandestine drug cook. They know they are selling chemicals in the secondary market (hobbyists, etc.) and they charge accordingly. Many on this forum don't have your acquistion credentials and classifying them as drug makers isn't accurate. Unless you just want piss everyone off.

I have never used them ;) - I find them to be very expensive.
Joe

[Edited on 8-4-2007 by joeflsts]

[Edited on 8-4-2007 by joeflsts]
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Sauron
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 07:49


@joe, damn it, you are mischaracterizing what I said I did not say that anyone who bought from scienlab.com was a drug cook. I said that I guessed that amateur chemists AND drug cooks (two completely seperate groups as far as I am concerned) were probably the intended clientele of sciencelab simply because these two groups were the only ones desperate enough to pay such ridiculous prices.

Now, if in fact sciencelab did not sell any drug precursors (whatever that means, list 1, list 2) that still leaves a lot of room for them to sell chemicals that drug cooks might have need of, because those DEA lists are hardly comprehensive.

But I did not exclude the case of perfectly legitimate amateurs trying to buy from these people simply because they have so few other options these days.

Apparently, if anyone did pay these people, there is a good chance they were ripped off.

That's according to members who HAVE been ripped off, and posted here about it.

Kindly do not misrepresent what I posted. Read it again, it has not been edited and speaks for itself. Any fair reading will reveal I insulted no one of us, and it was certainly not my intention to do so, in any case.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 08:56


Here's the first items under "A" in sciencelab.com's list of chemicals:

(+)-6-Aminopenicillanic Acid
» (R)-(+)-1-Amino-2-(methoxymethyl)pyrrolidine
» (R)-(-)-1-Amino-2-propanol
» (R,S)-alpha-Amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic Acid
» (R,S)-alpha-Amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic Acid Hydrobromide
» (S)-(+)-2-Amino-1-propanol
» (S)-(+)-2-Amino-2-phenylethanol
» (S)-(–)-2-Amino-3-phenyl-1-propanol
» (Z)-1-[2-(2-Aminoethyl)-N-(2-ammonioethyl)amino]diazen-1-ium-1,2-diolate
» (Z)-1-[N-(3-Ammoniopropyl)-N-(n-propyl)amino] Diazen-1-ium-1,2-diolate
» (Z)-2-Amino-alpha-(methoxyamino)thiazole-4-acetic Acid
» (±)-2-Aminoheptane
» (±)-Abscisic Acid
» 1,2-bis-(o-Aminophenoxy)ethane-N,N,N',N'-tetraacetic Acid Tetra(acetoxymethyl) Ester
» 1,3-bis(3-Aminopropyl)-1,1,3,3-tetramethyldisoxane
» 1,6-Anhydro-b-D-glucose
» 1,6-Anhydro-b-D-mannopyranose
» 1-(2-Aminoethyl)piperazine
» 1-Acetyl-2-phenylhydrazine
» 1-Acetyl-4-(4-hydroxyphenyl)piperazine
» 1-Acetyl-4-piperidinecarboxylic Acid
» 1-Acetyl-5-bromoindoline
» 1-Acetylimidazole
» 1-Adamantanamine Sulfate
» 1-Adamantanecarboxylic Acid
» 1-Adamantaneethanol
» 1-Adamantanol
» 1-Allyl-2-thiourea
» 1-Aminobenzotriazole
» 1-Aminocyclopropane-1-carboxylic Acid
» 1-Aminocyclopropane-1-carboxylic Acid Methyl Ester Hydrochloride
» 1-Aminoguanidinium Hydrogen Carbonate
» 1-Aminoindan
» 1-Aminopyrene
» 1-O-Acetyl-2,3,5-tri-O-benzoyl-beta-D-ribofuranose
» 12-Aminododecanoic Acid
» 2'-Acetonaphthone
» 2,2'-Anhydro-(1-b-D-arabinofuranosyl)cytosine Hydrochloride
» 2,2'-Azinobis(3-ethylbenzthiazoline-6-sulfonic Acid) Diammonium Salt
» 2,2'-Azobis(2-methylpropionitrile)
» 2,5-Anhydro-D-mannitol
» 2-(Aminomethyl)pyridine
» 2-Acetamidofluorene
» 2-Acetyl-5-methylfuran
» 2-Acetylbenzoic Acid
» 2-Acetylbutyrolactone
» 2-Acetylcyclopentanone

@Sauron: Maybe I am just dense but this hardly looks like the kind of chemicals either of those two groups you refer to would be ordering.




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Sauron
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 09:42


@Magpie, hang on. First of all, we are working backwards from a known piece of data, which is that these folks are crooks who have clipped a couple of our members for money already.

Given that simple datum, I am really not prepared to assume that sciencelab actually had stock of what they listed. More likely they waited till someone ordered and paid for something before they procured it, sort of a JIT setup.

So maybe they just copied that "inventory" from some other company's stock list and ran it up the flagpole.

In the end, they for whatever reason simply took the money and ran. Cuts down on the overhead for sure, nt much for customer satisfaction though.

Bottom line: they are crooks, and we have all been warned. The rest including my own comments is idle speculation with all the value of rubbernecking at a traffic accident.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 11:32


Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
@joe, damn it, you are mischaracterizing what I said I did not say that anyone who bought from scienlab.com was a drug cook. I said that I guessed that amateur chemists AND drug cooks (two completely seperate groups as far as I am concerned) were probably the intended clientele of sciencelab simply because these two groups were the only ones desperate enough to pay such ridiculous prices.

Now, if in fact sciencelab did not sell any drug precursors (whatever that means, list 1, list 2) that still leaves a lot of room for them to sell chemicals that drug cooks might have need of, because those DEA lists are hardly comprehensive.

But I did not exclude the case of perfectly legitimate amateurs trying to buy from these people simply because they have so few other options these days.

Apparently, if anyone did pay these people, there is a good chance they were ripped off.

That's according to members who HAVE been ripped off, and posted here about it.

Kindly do not misrepresent what I posted. Read it again, it has not been edited and speaks for itself. Any fair reading will reveal I insulted no one of us, and it was certainly not my intention to do so, in any case.


Thanks, I did misread your post.

Joe
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 14:26


They were OK on my first order. They are kind of expensive
but I just needed a number of surfactants for a project I have going. I filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and anyone else should also. Hate to do it with so few suppliers left but I doubt they will do anything anyway.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 16:09


I can't go for this. Let us be scientific. The darn human body tends to get addicted to everything from coffee and cigarettes on up. How do you know you aren't dealing with a passionate adherent of meth who has found the only way to stay slim? How do you know you are not dealing with someone completely psychotic at this very moment? In fact, I am reminded of a Doors song: "There's a killer on the road. His brain is squirmin' like a toad". I don't want a) drunks out there, b) anyone on any kind of high on the road, c) anyone not well-rested out there, d) anyone having an accident for any reason, because I will blame them. Now, who is really cooking? I USED to cook. Riddle me this: How are you possibly going to get away with it?
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 16:46


The entire deal with ScienceLab is about convienience. Not everyone has the means, ability, or want to set up an account with one of the big boys Sauron mentioned. IMO their business is focused on that market segment.

And it does appear that ScienceLab is a repack operation. Two weeks ago I placed an order with them and they promptly sent notice that the item was on back order with estimated delivery in 3-4 weeks.

So far I have not heard back from them.

I'm going to wait another week, and send them an e-mail(s). If they do not responde or ship my order within 1 more week I will file a dispute with my credit card company and have them do a charge-back.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 17:01


Be sure not to wait; this is what they did to me.

Eventually, it was too late to do a chargeback, right as they said they were going to ship. Still haven't received anything, not even an email from them.

Definitely don't delay when dealing with these unscrupulous people.




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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 17:26


http://www.bbb.org/

30 complaints in 37 months. Interesting that Strike's SA is within 5 miles of both sciencelab addresses.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 20:59


Quote:
Originally posted by S.C. Wack
http://www.bbb.org/

30 complaints in 37 months. Interesting that Strike's SA is within 5 miles of both sciencelab addresses.


wow interesting...

they do not seem to sell illegal things but on the border...

like they do not sell phenylacetic acid which is a p2p precursor but they do sell Phenylacetyl Chloride which reacted with water gives PAA in 100% yield.

[Edited on 9-4-2007 by conducter]
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[*] posted on 8-4-2007 at 21:44


You are missing the point, they STEAL YOUR MONEY AND DELIVER NOTHING so what they pretend to sell does not matter does it?

Suppose (arguendo) that they listed I2 and/or red P.

You place an order, they deliver nothing, they have not pissed off the DEA have they?

They would have committed mail fraud but they can get away with that for a long time as it is very hard to motivate the postal inspectors to take action.

FTC does nothing.

The cops might be highly amused to see someone ripping off people ordering those items.

Whereas if they actually delivered them DEA would be on them in a flash just like those Brits.
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[*] posted on 20-4-2007 at 00:18


I ordered from them a couple years ago. I believe the order consisted of some glassware, and one fairly common chemical, which though it was rather benign required me to fill out an intent of use form, which I doubt I ever filled out. They took the money for the entire order and sent only a few empty glass bottles. Not even any other glassware. I took a closer look at their website a while later and somewhere I found a policy stating something to the effect that if they for some reason cannot fill the order, the will still keep your money with no possibility of a refund. I assmune they still state that somewhere in the fine print to keep it legal, which means your pleas to the FTC or BBB may be in vain. But what do I know, I'm no lawyer. I hope you have better luck getting a refund than I have.



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[*] posted on 20-4-2007 at 00:27


Policy state,emt policy shtatement, what they did is criminal fraud. They can't hide behind terms and conditions while delivering empty bottles. And that does not even address the glassware never shipped at all.

Clearly sciencelab.com are cheap crooks, gonifs, of the worst sort. Avoid them like the plague, brethren.
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[*] posted on 20-4-2007 at 01:15


I suggest the formation of a website for stratetic public participation wherein you tell your story and others get to share their experiences.

Set it up with the proper meta-tags (meaning whenever sciencelab shows up in a separate search box in yahoo when you do a search for a chemical, add that as a meta tag) and submit it to all the search engines.

That would be how you hurt them... once you get enough complaints and the website grows and gets more traffic it will cost them $$$$$$ in lost sales.
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[*] posted on 20-4-2007 at 03:03


And then they just change their name (domain name) and go right on ripping people off.

Costs them virtually nothing. A $15 domain and a little html work.
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[*] posted on 20-4-2007 at 21:16


Quote:
Originally posted by LoKi
I ordered from them a couple years ago. I believe the order consisted of some glassware, and one fairly common chemical, which though it was rather benign required me to fill out an intent of use form, which I doubt I ever filled out. They took the money for the entire order and sent only a few empty glass bottles. Not even any other glassware. I took a closer look at their website a while later and somewhere I found a policy stating something to the effect that if they for some reason cannot fill the order, the will still keep your money with no possibility of a refund. I assmune they still state that somewhere in the fine print to keep it legal, which means your pleas to the FTC or BBB may be in vain. But what do I know, I'm no lawyer. I hope you have better luck getting a refund than I have.


I was thinking about ordering from them, but I decided to look at their police’s first to see if I had to be a school or business to order... I'm glade I did because my jaw dropped when I read this:
Quote:
Sciencelab.com
If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and not to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on Special Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.


Go to their site to read the rest of the "REGULATORY COMPLIANCE" section on their policies page.

I think I'll stick to eBay.
-Alan
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[*] posted on 21-4-2007 at 02:47


Quote:
Originally posted by alancj
Quote:
Sciencelab.com
If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and not to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on Special Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.


Go to their site to read the rest of the "REGULATORY COMPLIANCE" section on their policies page.

I think I'll stick to eBay.
-Alan


I doubt if it is legal to make such conditions. They should at least inform customers what exactly was the reason of canceling orders. Otherwise there is no way for customers to know if there was any other reason than just wish to stole their money. Not answering emails systematically is also bad stile if not against the law.

It seems that this kind of rather uncommon order canceling policy is how they actually make their money.


[Edited on 21-4-2007 by chromium]

[Edited on 21-4-2007 by chromium]




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