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Sauron
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There is no basis for their "policy" under the Uniform Commercial Code (US Business law) or any other US law.
Maybe they think they can confuse a victim but they can't confuse a prosecutor, or any lawyer.
They are civilly and criminally liable. The difficulty will lie is the likely small claim vs the cost of civil litigation and vs the motivation of any
prosecutor to pursue criminally. In other words, if you lost a lot and have a deep pocket and/or the right political connections you might get (or
buy) assistance.
If your loss is smallish everyone will tell you to just write it off.
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not_important
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I've been told that in the US it is not that uncommon for shady businesses to maintain a number of bank accounts. most of which only contain a tiny
amount of money; money is constantly being moved between accounts on to ones belonging to some other company. If you win a court cases against them,
it turns out that their listed bank account only has $23 in it.
If you manage to trace out Sciencelab's flow, it would not surprise me if they buy everything they list from some "other" repacking company that
charges them high prices, and whose invoices Sciencelab always pay very promptly, so that cash does not sit in Sciencelab's bank account(s). Both
companies, in the end, are owned or controlled by the same people, perhaps with several layers of parent corporations.
One might consider registering and hosting a web site outside the US, named "sciencelabisaripoff" or something similar. It would display details of
the problems with that company, replicate their product lists, and use the same meta tags they do.
Just saying...
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tupence_hapeny
Hazard to Others
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Mood: continuing respiration (touch wood)
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This is so fucking funny it is ludicrous, these fucks think that they can avoid liability with a disclaimer so poorly fucking worded? A quick lesson
in the legalities involved in cybersales (This is written in response to this page (http://www.sciencelab.com/data/legal.htm):
| Quote: | Jurisdiction & Venue
You agree that any legal action brought against SCIENCELAB.COM Inc. shall be governed by the laws of the State of Texas without regard to its conflict
of law principles. You agree that the sole jurisdiction and venue for any litigation arising from your use of or orders made on the sciencelab.com
sites shall be an appropriate federal or state court located in Harris County Texas. |
I can agree to whatever the fuck I please whenever and wherever the consequences of that agreement are non-enforceable and void for uncertainty (or in
this case, stupidity). Such as, in this instance, the 'quasi-legalistic' concession as to jurisdiction, wherever you place an order from (and they
agree to deliver it to) determines the jurisdiction in which the claim will be heard. No Court will allow it's jurisdiction to be waived, nor will
legislatures, virtually every jurisdiction I have encountered precludes the effect of such disclaimers (as to jurisdiction) in their entirety and as
such this is a waste of valuable space.
| Quote: | Order Acceptance Policy
Your receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation
of our offer to sell. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason.
sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order, without prior notice to you, to supply less than the quantity you ordered
of any item. All orders placed over $2000.00 (U.S.) must obtain pre-approval with an acceptable method of payment, as established by our credit and
fraud avoidance department. We may require additional verifications or information before accepting any orders. |
NNoooo, what is on the website is an invitation to treat, the proposed purchaser then makes an offer - which is either declined or accepted.
Acceptance or denial is held to be determined at the point at which money changes hands or where the necessary paperwork and credit details is
provided and accepted in exchange for the promise to supply goods. This is called 'consideration' and it is provided on the basis of a 'promise',
constituting both offer (by you) and acceptance (by them). If they require additional information they must do so prior to acceptance, simply because
if the legality of the sale is dependent upon a condition precedent, it must be established prior to the exchange of consideration for promise - this
is called 'COMMERCE' However, they did get something right, the written memorandum confirming the order/transaction, does not of itself, constitute
either offer or acceptance - it does however provide a binding record of the same.
Consequently they may indeed at some time, post-settlement, ship less than the desired quantity, etc. however they remain liable to provide the
balance of the contract, failure to do so on their part constitutes false and/or misleading conduct (fraud if not pure theft).
NB Also be aware, conditions incised upon a computer/machine generated receipt or ticket are non-enforceable (thus void) unless clear reference had
been made to those conditions/rules prior to your entering into the contract (unless on the basis of prior dealings it could be inferred that you were
aware of the same).
| Quote: | REGULATORY COMPLIANCE
Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify the customer by email should any additional information(s) be required to fulfill your order. Sciencelab.com, Inc. is
not responsible for any non-compliance on the customers behalf. If any item requires information(s) from regulatory departments within Sciencelab.com,
Inc. or on behalf of federal and local governments. The customer will be required to provide these institutions with any and all information
requested, failure to do so will result in the customer being out both product and the product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.
If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and not
to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on Special
Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc.
website.
Sciencelab.com, Inc. does not assume the responsibility of knowing or informing the customer of these regulations at the time of purchase.
Sciencelab.com, Inc. will take good faith measures to make sure the customer is notified of any regulatory departments compliance or non-compliance
issues at the time of our notification by such departments or if we do have prior knowledge of such regulations at the time of order placement.
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Once again, BULLSHIT
The company suggests by the above that not only does a customer lose their item, which would presumably be confiscated by the government (although it
wouldn't - it wouldn't leave the store), but that they would be paid for that item (despite having entered into an agreement to break the law) but
would also be paid a bonus for having done so?
Nope.
Of you have the misfortune to be in this situation (through no fault of your own), the contract is void for illegality - neither party gets to keep
what they get under the agreement and both parties are returned to their respective positions prior to entering into the agreement. THEY MUST RETURN
THE MONEY, if they don't - sue their black hearted motherfucking arses off, just because you 'almost' inadvertently 'bent' the law doesn't remove you
from the protection of the same.* The only party that can penalize you for breaking the law at any rate is the government - neither private
individuals nor companies have any right or authority to do so...
* Minor caveat, if you are in fact seeking to manufacture illegal drugs, please, do not take chemical suppliers to Court - chances are, if you do,
that you will have many years in which to work out why this is so...
Also please be aware that if you are out of pocket simply by virtue of not having been aware of the regulatory requirements attendant upon your
proposed purchase - which ignorance arose at least partially because of the putative chemical suppliers 'failure' to inform you of the same - prior
to settlement (as they are inevitably required to do by law & as a condition of their remaining licensed) there is at least a serious argument
that your loss arose from their negligence/incompetence. It would therefore be unethical to allow them to profit from improper or even illegal
business practices and I'd be surprised if ANY Court allowed them to do so...
I've said it before, and I will say it again, just because they have lawyers who say one thing doesn't make it so, every single Court case is two (or
often many more) lawyer's saying that the other one is a dickhead with a judge to determine where both the truth and the law lies. Business law is
based upon fairness and equity, it is there to stop people being fucked over (for the most part) and to encourage investment by demonstrating that
investor's can trust the Courts to deliver a fair and equitable outcome. Just because something is in legalese don't mean its legal.
tup
We are all the sum of our experiences, and our reactions to the same
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
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Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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You are quite correct - it IS illegal, it is criminal and civil fraud, mail fraud, and a violation of umpteen federal laws on top of those.
I would say they are counting on their customers being disinclined to lodge official complaints because they apparently assume that their only
clientele (for which read:victims) are those who can't buy their chemicals through normal chemical supply channels. In other words, they regard all of
you as fair game for theft.
I have said before that these guys are at best a repack shop, They do not manufacture anything, and they do not do custom synthesis. If they actually
deal in chemicals at all, they buy in a larger qty, repack to smaller qty, mark up outrageously, and pocket the difference.
Clearly from the absurd and obviously dysfunctional notice above, they have discovered a way to transmute your money into their money.
Someone REALLY needs to put these people behind bars.
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conducter
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Registered: 7-10-2006
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sauron, does that mean that they simply wont fill an order? because they have a few items ive had my eye on, but am not sure if ANYONE has had success
with them
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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In a previous thread some member reported that they filled an oprder or two and then screwed him over on another order, no shipment, no refund.
There's no safe way to do business with such a company. If they take credit cards you MIGHT have recourse (by chargeback) but it will be at discretion
of the card center. My bet is that for this reason, sciencelab won't take plastic. Do they?
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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Mood: Suspicious
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Oh my god! After reading this I knew that it absolutely must be a scam.
| Quote: |
(R)-1-Amino-2-(methoxymethyl)pyrrolidine; RAMP
C6H14N2O F.W. 130.19 CAS: 72748-99-3
SKU Size Price
SLA1984-1G 1 g $294.59
Assay Approx. 97%
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First off, no organic molecule should cost anywhere near that much. Second, even if this was 100% pure (I mean, every damn molecule in the container
is the listed compound) it would still not even be worth a fraction of that price. And the assay is only 97%!
This is more than 5x the price of platinum by weight. This compound rivals the price of 100% pure fentanyl on "the street". Can anyone here think of
a compound (other than black market fentanyl patches sold individually) that costs this much (legitimately) by weight? Anyone?
Let's look at another one. One of the simplest amino alcohols (and really one of the simplest organic molecules).
| Quote: |
(R)-(-)-1-Amino-2-propanol
(–)-Isopropanolamine
C3H9NO F.W. 75.11 CAS: 2799-16-8
SKU Size Price
SLA4837-1G † 1 g $99.70
† Limited Quantity
* Subject to Hazardous Material Fee
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They have a limited quantity selling 1g at a time? This price doesn't even include shipping OR the hazardous materials fee! This is completely
ludacris and laughable at best. This is an insult to the intelligence of the human race. Shame on these people!
If I didn't know any better I would think this site was a joke!
Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt and say, "that's just a typo-- they mean 1 gallon", that STILL is an outrageous price!
I am just completely and utterly appalled at the fact that people can actually pull this kind of low-ball shit!
I know this has already been discussed but I just wanted to make sure people saw those prices when they read this thread so they know without
a doubt that this site is a scam.
[Edited on 7-4-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
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Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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You are beating a dead horse. Yes they are a scam. Yes they are crooks. Yes they are not to be trusted. Yes their prices are absurd. But we concluded
these things in the first few posts of this thread.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
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For some reason "absurd" just doesn't do it justice. I can't think of a word strong enough to describe this lunacy.
Anyway, moving on...
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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Mood: metastable
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I could say same about 1 g and 5 g package pricing from Aldrich.
I am no defender of sciencelab.com but there's a certain anti-economy build into small packaging. You might compare these ridiculous prices with
Aldrich's ridiculous prices.
Speaking of ridiculous I looked up barium thiocyanate on Alfa a few days ago. Almost $899/Kg. Now that;s ridiculous.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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That's true but when a 1g quantity is the only listed option, well... It's just... Like I said, indescribable.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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Mood: metastable
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I guess the only appropriate response is NOT to buy from them.
Let this thread serve as a warning to others.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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dochollidaydds
Unregistered
Posts: N/A
Registered: N/A
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ScienceLab.com ripoff 
Just posting an experience with these people. DO NOT purchase anything from them. I agree with the forum postings - they partially ship, then never
reply to multiple inquiries on purchase orders, requests for refunds or updates on shipments that were never completed, rude phone service (hang up in
your ear).
Now I have to turn to Bank of America to dispute the transaction.
Of all online purchase experiences, this was the worst web purchase transaction I ever made.
And I've made a lot of them over the years.!!
Caveat emptor Doc 
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evil_lurker
National Hazard
Posts: 767
Registered: 12-3-2005
Location: United States of Elbonia
Member Is Offline
Mood: On the wagon again.
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File a BBB complaint and contact the TX attorney general.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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millerxia
Harmless
Posts: 8
Registered: 15-5-2008
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sciencelab is a trading company, which almost same as Aldrich. We did not do business with it before. so i know little about it.It seem to be a big
company;)
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evil_lurker
National Hazard
Posts: 767
Registered: 12-3-2005
Location: United States of Elbonia
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Mood: On the wagon again.
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This is not how you do business... as quoted from Sciencelab.com's TOS
"Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify you should any of the products ordered be unable to ship at the time order is placed. These items will then be
considered special order items by Sciencelab.com, Inc.. A special order cannot be cancelled and will not be refunded after 3 business days of this
notification unless Sciencelab.com, Inc. is unable to procure your item."
And it gets worse:
"Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify the customer by email should any additional information(s) be required to fulfill your order. Sciencelab.com, Inc.
is not responsible for any non-compliance on the customers behalf. If any item requires information(s) from regulatory departments within
Sciencelab.com, Inc. or on behalf of federal and local governments. The customer will be required to provide these institutions with any and all
information requested, failure to do so will result in the customer being out both product and the product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc.
website.
If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and
not to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on
Special Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc.
website.
Sciencelab.com, Inc. does not assume the responsibility of knowing or informing the customer of these regulations at the time of purchase.
Sciencelab.com, Inc. will take good faith measures to make sure the customer is notified of any regulatory departments compliance or non-compliance
issues at the time of our notification by such departments or if we do have prior knowledge of such regulations at the time of order placement. "
"Your receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation
of our offer to sell. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason.
sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order, without prior notice to you, to supply less than the quantity you ordered
of any item. All orders placed over $2000.00 (U.S.) must obtain pre-approval with an acceptable method of payment, as established by our credit
and fraud avoidance department. We may require additional verifications or information before accepting any orders. "
And the cherry on the bullshit cake:
"You agree that any legal action brought against SCIENCELAB.COM Inc. shall be governed by the laws of the State of Texas without regard to its
conflict of law principles. You agree that the sole jurisdiction and venue for any litigation arising from your use of or orders made on the
sciencelab.com sites shall be an appropriate federal or state court located in Harris County Texas. "
These guys are a definate rip off scam. With that kind of TOS your only inviting trouble upon yourself if you attempt to place and order with them.
Their TOS basically allows them to keep your money and not ship the product.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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soxhlet
Harmless
Posts: 19
Registered: 10-4-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Many of the members here should go to sciencelab.com site an leave email to the company. Be nice. Be professional. Simply request that they come to
this thread an address/answer concerns/questions put forward by the constituent market they claim to serve i.e. hobbists.
When contacting sciencelab, please request RSVP to your invitations.
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Pulverulescent
National Hazard
Posts: 793
Registered: 31-1-2008
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Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!
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'You really think they'll comply, soxhlet; 'seems to me like naivete on your part, if you don't mind me saying. . .?
P
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soxhlet
Harmless
Posts: 19
Registered: 10-4-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I doubt they'd comply. Its probably a very small business (as in one person).
If they were to receive a hundred or so email requests from members here, they/he might be more likely to attend. Couple hundred hobbists is likely a
considerable portion of their/his prospective market base.
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maozim
Harmless
Posts: 9
Registered: 18-6-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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The steal money
I placved an order for like $2000. This was 3 or so years ago. There was like 12 items, and they eventually shipped 2 of them (KI and NaOH). These
were only like $300 then.
I called and talked to people 200 times. Eventually, their computer system "became updated" and "orders that old were not able to be seen in this
system." The manager who had access to the old system never could be reached, and they never responded to my complaint at the BBB.
Sp***rum chemical, although pricey comapred to sigma or alfa, works fine for me for many things. The brief hassle setting up an account was not as
hard as setting up an account with most companies (still thourough and legitamte). I will never order from a company that lists an encyclopedia of
chemicals, but dosen't require a TIN or business lisence. No one that big who is not sketchy would take orders with no requirements.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
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What's Sp***rum chemical? And why/how did you spend $2000 for a first order? I would NEVER do that even if I had that much money to spend on
chemicals.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Pulverulescent
National Hazard
Posts: 793
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!
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I, too, am curious about the missing "ect" of Spectrum, Moazim.
P
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Pulverulescent
National Hazard
Posts: 793
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!
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And, again just out of curiosity, what were the missing ten?
P
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shadow
Hazard to Self
Posts: 52
Registered: 17-10-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I just signed up with Spectrum, but as a hobbyist, I not expecting results.
Their sign up sheet had nothing too demanding execpt a company name, however they emailed me an acknowledgement of the order followed by:
"A Spectrum sales representative will
contact you shortly with a confirmation number for your order. "
I hope they email me because I'm ususally not home during work hours, and if they call, no one here is going to answer with the "company name".
I'm not holding my breath.
maozim, what can I expect?
[Edited on 17-5-2008 by shadow]
[Edited on 17-5-2008 by shadow]
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soxhlet
Harmless
Posts: 19
Registered: 10-4-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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you guys never heard of spectrum? sheez MJP, get with the program.
Spectrum is rather strict. I have a customer account with them. They will request a tax ID number. And, if there is anything fishy about your
interview, they will not give you an account and they will report you to LE. And, you will become the target of someone who wishes for you to be an
arrest victim regardless of whether or not you are doing anything "illegal".
I have heard prosecutors say "tell you client to grow up" to defense attorneys whose clients object to plea offers on the baisis of being innocent of
the allegations.
So, oh well, the system steam rolls us little ants. Well, anyone reading this can send a bitch email to www.sales@sciencelab.com
Stand up and grow a pair. If enough of us say stop the bucking fullshit someone will listen.
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