Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2    4  ..  7
Author: Subject: sciencelab .com
Sauron
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline

Mood: metastable

[*] posted on 21-4-2007 at 06:55


There is no basis for their "policy" under the Uniform Commercial Code (US Business law) or any other US law.

Maybe they think they can confuse a victim but they can't confuse a prosecutor, or any lawyer.

They are civilly and criminally liable. The difficulty will lie is the likely small claim vs the cost of civil litigation and vs the motivation of any prosecutor to pursue criminally. In other words, if you lost a lot and have a deep pocket and/or the right political connections you might get (or buy) assistance.

If your loss is smallish everyone will tell you to just write it off.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
not_important
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3873
Registered: 21-7-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 21-4-2007 at 08:09


I've been told that in the US it is not that uncommon for shady businesses to maintain a number of bank accounts. most of which only contain a tiny amount of money; money is constantly being moved between accounts on to ones belonging to some other company. If you win a court cases against them, it turns out that their listed bank account only has $23 in it.

If you manage to trace out Sciencelab's flow, it would not surprise me if they buy everything they list from some "other" repacking company that charges them high prices, and whose invoices Sciencelab always pay very promptly, so that cash does not sit in Sciencelab's bank account(s). Both companies, in the end, are owned or controlled by the same people, perhaps with several layers of parent corporations.

One might consider registering and hosting a web site outside the US, named "sciencelabisaripoff" or something similar. It would display details of the problems with that company, replicate their product lists, and use the same meta tags they do.

Just saying...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
tupence_hapeny
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 131
Registered: 25-3-2007
Member Is Offline

Mood: continuing respiration (touch wood)

[*] posted on 27-5-2007 at 19:28


This is so fucking funny it is ludicrous, these fucks think that they can avoid liability with a disclaimer so poorly fucking worded? A quick lesson in the legalities involved in cybersales (This is written in response to this page (http://www.sciencelab.com/data/legal.htm):

Quote:
Jurisdiction & Venue
You agree that any legal action brought against SCIENCELAB.COM Inc. shall be governed by the laws of the State of Texas without regard to its conflict of law principles. You agree that the sole jurisdiction and venue for any litigation arising from your use of or orders made on the sciencelab.com sites shall be an appropriate federal or state court located in Harris County Texas.


I can agree to whatever the fuck I please whenever and wherever the consequences of that agreement are non-enforceable and void for uncertainty (or in this case, stupidity). Such as, in this instance, the 'quasi-legalistic' concession as to jurisdiction, wherever you place an order from (and they agree to deliver it to) determines the jurisdiction in which the claim will be heard. No Court will allow it's jurisdiction to be waived, nor will legislatures, virtually every jurisdiction I have encountered precludes the effect of such disclaimers (as to jurisdiction) in their entirety and as such this is a waste of valuable space.

Quote:
Order Acceptance Policy
Your receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation of our offer to sell. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order, without prior notice to you, to supply less than the quantity you ordered of any item. All orders placed over $2000.00 (U.S.) must obtain pre-approval with an acceptable method of payment, as established by our credit and fraud avoidance department. We may require additional verifications or information before accepting any orders.


NNoooo, what is on the website is an invitation to treat, the proposed purchaser then makes an offer - which is either declined or accepted. Acceptance or denial is held to be determined at the point at which money changes hands or where the necessary paperwork and credit details is provided and accepted in exchange for the promise to supply goods. This is called 'consideration' and it is provided on the basis of a 'promise', constituting both offer (by you) and acceptance (by them). If they require additional information they must do so prior to acceptance, simply because if the legality of the sale is dependent upon a condition precedent, it must be established prior to the exchange of consideration for promise - this is called 'COMMERCE' However, they did get something right, the written memorandum confirming the order/transaction, does not of itself, constitute either offer or acceptance - it does however provide a binding record of the same.

Consequently they may indeed at some time, post-settlement, ship less than the desired quantity, etc. however they remain liable to provide the balance of the contract, failure to do so on their part constitutes false and/or misleading conduct (fraud if not pure theft).

NB Also be aware, conditions incised upon a computer/machine generated receipt or ticket are non-enforceable (thus void) unless clear reference had been made to those conditions/rules prior to your entering into the contract (unless on the basis of prior dealings it could be inferred that you were aware of the same).

Quote:
REGULATORY COMPLIANCE
Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify the customer by email should any additional information(s) be required to fulfill your order. Sciencelab.com, Inc. is not responsible for any non-compliance on the customers behalf. If any item requires information(s) from regulatory departments within Sciencelab.com, Inc. or on behalf of federal and local governments. The customer will be required to provide these institutions with any and all information requested, failure to do so will result in the customer being out both product and the product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.

If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and not to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on Special Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.

Sciencelab.com, Inc. does not assume the responsibility of knowing or informing the customer of these regulations at the time of purchase. Sciencelab.com, Inc. will take good faith measures to make sure the customer is notified of any regulatory departments compliance or non-compliance issues at the time of our notification by such departments or if we do have prior knowledge of such regulations at the time of order placement.


Once again, BULLSHIT

The company suggests by the above that not only does a customer lose their item, which would presumably be confiscated by the government (although it wouldn't - it wouldn't leave the store), but that they would be paid for that item (despite having entered into an agreement to break the law) but would also be paid a bonus for having done so?

Nope.

Of you have the misfortune to be in this situation (through no fault of your own), the contract is void for illegality - neither party gets to keep what they get under the agreement and both parties are returned to their respective positions prior to entering into the agreement. THEY MUST RETURN THE MONEY, if they don't - sue their black hearted motherfucking arses off, just because you 'almost' inadvertently 'bent' the law doesn't remove you from the protection of the same.* The only party that can penalize you for breaking the law at any rate is the government - neither private individuals nor companies have any right or authority to do so...

* Minor caveat, if you are in fact seeking to manufacture illegal drugs, please, do not take chemical suppliers to Court - chances are, if you do, that you will have many years in which to work out why this is so...

Also please be aware that if you are out of pocket simply by virtue of not having been aware of the regulatory requirements attendant upon your proposed purchase - which ignorance arose at least partially because of the putative chemical suppliers 'failure' to inform you of the same - prior to settlement (as they are inevitably required to do by law & as a condition of their remaining licensed) there is at least a serious argument that your loss arose from their negligence/incompetence. It would therefore be unethical to allow them to profit from improper or even illegal business practices and I'd be surprised if ANY Court allowed them to do so...

I've said it before, and I will say it again, just because they have lawyers who say one thing doesn't make it so, every single Court case is two (or often many more) lawyer's saying that the other one is a dickhead with a judge to determine where both the truth and the law lies. Business law is based upon fairness and equity, it is there to stop people being fucked over (for the most part) and to encourage investment by demonstrating that investor's can trust the Courts to deliver a fair and equitable outcome. Just because something is in legalese don't mean its legal.

tup




We are all the sum of our experiences, and our reactions to the same
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sauron
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline

Mood: metastable

[*] posted on 27-5-2007 at 20:14


You are quite correct - it IS illegal, it is criminal and civil fraud, mail fraud, and a violation of umpteen federal laws on top of those.

I would say they are counting on their customers being disinclined to lodge official complaints because they apparently assume that their only clientele (for which read:victims) are those who can't buy their chemicals through normal chemical supply channels. In other words, they regard all of you as fair game for theft.

I have said before that these guys are at best a repack shop, They do not manufacture anything, and they do not do custom synthesis. If they actually deal in chemicals at all, they buy in a larger qty, repack to smaller qty, mark up outrageously, and pocket the difference.

Clearly from the absurd and obviously dysfunctional notice above, they have discovered a way to transmute your money into their money.

Someone REALLY needs to put these people behind bars.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
conducter
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 84
Registered: 7-10-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-5-2007 at 06:19


sauron, does that mean that they simply wont fill an order? because they have a few items ive had my eye on, but am not sure if ANYONE has had success with them
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sauron
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline

Mood: metastable

[*] posted on 28-5-2007 at 07:21


In a previous thread some member reported that they filled an oprder or two and then screwed him over on another order, no shipment, no refund.

There's no safe way to do business with such a company. If they take credit cards you MIGHT have recourse (by chargeback) but it will be at discretion of the card center. My bet is that for this reason, sciencelab won't take plastic. Do they?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Suspicious

[*] posted on 7-4-2008 at 20:31


Oh my god! After reading this I knew that it absolutely must be a scam.

Quote:

(R)-1-Amino-2-(methoxymethyl)pyrrolidine; RAMP

C6H14N2O F.W. 130.19 CAS: 72748-99-3

SKU Size Price
SLA1984-1G 1 g $294.59

Assay Approx. 97%


First off, no organic molecule should cost anywhere near that much. Second, even if this was 100% pure (I mean, every damn molecule in the container is the listed compound) it would still not even be worth a fraction of that price. And the assay is only 97%!

This is more than 5x the price of platinum by weight. This compound rivals the price of 100% pure fentanyl on "the street". Can anyone here think of a compound (other than black market fentanyl patches sold individually) that costs this much (legitimately) by weight? Anyone?

Let's look at another one. One of the simplest amino alcohols (and really one of the simplest organic molecules).
Quote:

(R)-(-)-1-Amino-2-propanol
(–)-Isopropanolamine

C3H9NO F.W. 75.11 CAS: 2799-16-8

SKU Size Price
SLA4837-1G † 1 g $99.70

† Limited Quantity
* Subject to Hazardous Material Fee


They have a limited quantity selling 1g at a time? This price doesn't even include shipping OR the hazardous materials fee! This is completely ludacris and laughable at best. This is an insult to the intelligence of the human race. Shame on these people!

If I didn't know any better I would think this site was a joke!

Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt and say, "that's just a typo-- they mean 1 gallon", that STILL is an outrageous price!

I am just completely and utterly appalled at the fact that people can actually pull this kind of low-ball shit!

I know this has already been discussed but I just wanted to make sure people saw those prices when they read this thread so they know without a doubt that this site is a scam.


[Edited on 7-4-2008 by MagicJigPipe]




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Sauron
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline

Mood: metastable

[*] posted on 7-4-2008 at 20:47


You are beating a dead horse. Yes they are a scam. Yes they are crooks. Yes they are not to be trusted. Yes their prices are absurd. But we concluded these things in the first few posts of this thread.



Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Suspicious

[*] posted on 7-4-2008 at 20:55


For some reason "absurd" just doesn't do it justice. I can't think of a word strong enough to describe this lunacy.

Anyway, moving on...




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Sauron
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline

Mood: metastable

[*] posted on 7-4-2008 at 21:12


I could say same about 1 g and 5 g package pricing from Aldrich.

I am no defender of sciencelab.com but there's a certain anti-economy build into small packaging. You might compare these ridiculous prices with Aldrich's ridiculous prices.

Speaking of ridiculous I looked up barium thiocyanate on Alfa a few days ago. Almost $899/Kg. Now that;s ridiculous.




Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Suspicious

[*] posted on 7-4-2008 at 21:24


That's true but when a 1g quantity is the only listed option, well... It's just... Like I said, indescribable.



"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Sauron
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline

Mood: metastable

[*] posted on 7-4-2008 at 22:17


I guess the only appropriate response is NOT to buy from them.

Let this thread serve as a warning to others.




Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
dochollidaydds
Unregistered




Posts: N/A
Registered: N/A
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 15-5-2008 at 13:59


ScienceLab.com ripoff :mad:

Just posting an experience with these people. DO NOT purchase anything from them. I agree with the forum postings - they partially ship, then never reply to multiple inquiries on purchase orders, requests for refunds or updates on shipments that were never completed, rude phone service (hang up in your ear).

Now I have to turn to Bank of America to dispute the transaction.
Of all online purchase experiences, this was the worst web purchase transaction I ever made.
And I've made a lot of them over the years.!!

Caveat emptor Doc :cool:
evil_lurker
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 767
Registered: 12-3-2005
Location: United States of Elbonia
Member Is Offline

Mood: On the wagon again.

[*] posted on 15-5-2008 at 14:25


File a BBB complaint and contact the TX attorney general.



Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
millerxia
Harmless
*




Posts: 8
Registered: 15-5-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 15-5-2008 at 15:55


sciencelab is a trading company, which almost same as Aldrich. We did not do business with it before. so i know little about it.It seem to be a big company;)



View user's profile View All Posts By User
evil_lurker
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 767
Registered: 12-3-2005
Location: United States of Elbonia
Member Is Offline

Mood: On the wagon again.

[*] posted on 15-5-2008 at 16:41


This is not how you do business... as quoted from Sciencelab.com's TOS

"Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify you should any of the products ordered be unable to ship at the time order is placed. These items will then be considered special order items by Sciencelab.com, Inc.. A special order cannot be cancelled and will not be refunded after 3 business days of this notification unless Sciencelab.com, Inc. is unable to procure your item."

And it gets worse:

"Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify the customer by email should any additional information(s) be required to fulfill your order. Sciencelab.com, Inc. is not responsible for any non-compliance on the customers behalf. If any item requires information(s) from regulatory departments within Sciencelab.com, Inc. or on behalf of federal and local governments. The customer will be required to provide these institutions with any and all information requested, failure to do so will result in the customer being out both product and the product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.
If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and not to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on Special Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.
Sciencelab.com, Inc. does not assume the responsibility of knowing or informing the customer of these regulations at the time of purchase. Sciencelab.com, Inc. will take good faith measures to make sure the customer is notified of any regulatory departments compliance or non-compliance issues at the time of our notification by such departments or if we do have prior knowledge of such regulations at the time of order placement.
"

"Your receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation of our offer to sell. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order, without prior notice to you, to supply less than the quantity you ordered of any item. All orders placed over $2000.00 (U.S.) must obtain pre-approval with an acceptable method of payment, as established by our credit and fraud avoidance department. We may require additional verifications or information before accepting any orders. "

And the cherry on the bullshit cake:

"You agree that any legal action brought against SCIENCELAB.COM Inc. shall be governed by the laws of the State of Texas without regard to its conflict of law principles. You agree that the sole jurisdiction and venue for any litigation arising from your use of or orders made on the sciencelab.com sites shall be an appropriate federal or state court located in Harris County Texas. "

These guys are a definate rip off scam. With that kind of TOS your only inviting trouble upon yourself if you attempt to place and order with them. Their TOS basically allows them to keep your money and not ship the product.




Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
soxhlet
Harmless
*




Posts: 19
Registered: 10-4-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-5-2008 at 05:09


Many of the members here should go to sciencelab.com site an leave email to the company. Be nice. Be professional. Simply request that they come to this thread an address/answer concerns/questions put forward by the constituent market they claim to serve i.e. hobbists.

When contacting sciencelab, please request RSVP to your invitations.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pulverulescent
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 792
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!

[*] posted on 16-5-2008 at 13:34


'You really think they'll comply, soxhlet; 'seems to me like naivete on your part, if you don't mind me saying. . .?

P
View user's profile View All Posts By User
soxhlet
Harmless
*




Posts: 19
Registered: 10-4-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 16-5-2008 at 18:07


I doubt they'd comply. Its probably a very small business (as in one person).

If they were to receive a hundred or so email requests from members here, they/he might be more likely to attend. Couple hundred hobbists is likely a considerable portion of their/his prospective market base.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
maozim
Harmless
*




Posts: 9
Registered: 18-6-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 17-5-2008 at 10:26
The steal money


I placved an order for like $2000. This was 3 or so years ago. There was like 12 items, and they eventually shipped 2 of them (KI and NaOH). These were only like $300 then.

I called and talked to people 200 times. Eventually, their computer system "became updated" and "orders that old were not able to be seen in this system." The manager who had access to the old system never could be reached, and they never responded to my complaint at the BBB.

Sp***rum chemical, although pricey comapred to sigma or alfa, works fine for me for many things. The brief hassle setting up an account was not as hard as setting up an account with most companies (still thourough and legitamte). I will never order from a company that lists an encyclopedia of chemicals, but dosen't require a TIN or business lisence. No one that big who is not sketchy would take orders with no requirements.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Suspicious

[*] posted on 17-5-2008 at 11:38


What's Sp***rum chemical? And why/how did you spend $2000 for a first order? I would NEVER do that even if I had that much money to spend on chemicals.



"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Pulverulescent
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 792
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!

[*] posted on 17-5-2008 at 11:42


I, too, am curious about the missing "ect" of Spectrum, Moazim.

P
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pulverulescent
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 792
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!

[*] posted on 17-5-2008 at 12:13


And, again just out of curiosity, what were the missing ten?

P
View user's profile View All Posts By User
shadow
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 52
Registered: 17-10-2007
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 17-5-2008 at 12:45


I just signed up with Spectrum, but as a hobbyist, I not expecting results.

Their sign up sheet had nothing too demanding execpt a company name, however they emailed me an acknowledgement of the order followed by:

"A Spectrum sales representative will
contact you shortly with a confirmation number for your order. "

I hope they email me because I'm ususally not home during work hours, and if they call, no one here is going to answer with the "company name".

I'm not holding my breath.

maozim, what can I expect?



[Edited on 17-5-2008 by shadow]

[Edited on 17-5-2008 by shadow]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
soxhlet
Harmless
*




Posts: 19
Registered: 10-4-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 17-5-2008 at 18:19


you guys never heard of spectrum? sheez MJP, get with the program.

Spectrum is rather strict. I have a customer account with them. They will request a tax ID number. And, if there is anything fishy about your interview, they will not give you an account and they will report you to LE. And, you will become the target of someone who wishes for you to be an arrest victim regardless of whether or not you are doing anything "illegal".

I have heard prosecutors say "tell you client to grow up" to defense attorneys whose clients object to plea offers on the baisis of being innocent of the allegations.

So, oh well, the system steam rolls us little ants. Well, anyone reading this can send a bitch email to www.sales@sciencelab.com

Stand up and grow a pair. If enough of us say stop the bucking fullshit someone will listen.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2    4  ..  7

  Go To Top