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conducter
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Posting pictures of purified safrole?
so AFOAF has obtained quite a bit of Sassafras oil (real not synthetik) and he was thinking of posting pictures here for discussion of
freeze-purifying the safrole from sassafras oil. He was wondering if that would cause any legal problems for this site?
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Sauron
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Your friend of a friend wants to make carcinogenic root beer?
Or just MDA?
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conducter
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Actually safrole is a sacred oil for my friend and his girlfriend, as it is a part of their religion and the oil is considered sacred. The husband
happens to love chemistry tho so he thought he would have some fun with it.
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not_important
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Ah, getting cancer is a statement of religion, as well as fun. They could get well paid by the tobacco industry, at least until they were getting
chemo.
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Levi
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I'd be interested in seeing the pictures. It would not cause any legal problems for the site itself but safrole is schedule I so it may cause legal
problems for any identifiable person appearing in the photographs. As safrole isn't a drug in its own right, a discussion would not be inappropriate
here unless the discussion turned into a practical discussion of the synthesis of ecstasy. Regardless, it may still be frowned upon by some members.
[Edited on 13-4-2007 by Levi]
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Sauron
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If this guy is asking PERMISSION about whether or not it is appropriate then the only person who can answer that is Polverone, who is after all the
forum proprietor.
Anyone else's frowns or smiles are largely irrelevent. Including my own.
Schedule One controlled substance, whether or not is a drug, is highly illegal to manufacture or possess. AFAIK oil of sassafras is not, but as soon
as the putative friend of a friend isolates safrole he has crossed the line.
Somehow I doubt the whole religious argument, sounds like a newage crock of shit to me. Tell it to the judge.
[Edited on 13-4-2007 by Sauron]
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Levi
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
Somehow I doubt the whole religious argument, sounds like a newage crock of shit to me. Tell it to the judge.
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I think it's probably a Native American tradition. Of course, just about every plant is sacred to a Native American so this is a rather broad
argument indeed. None the less, there are government exceptions in the US for such things (like peyote) and as long as the discussion remained
theoretical in nature there would be nothing to prosecute. Should the discussion turn practical, though, I'm sure it will quickly find its way into
the detritus section. The great Polverone will strike it down with his flaming sword of forum justice and cast it into detritus where it will be
forever tormented by the relentless beaked horror (vulture).
[Edited on 13-4-2007 by Levi]
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Sauron
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What pray tell is theoretical about posting PHOTOS of the PROCESS of fractional crystallization of SAFROLE from the allegerdly sacred oil?
Or is safrole supposedly sacred too?
Nothing theoretical about it and it's not a discussion he's proposing to post but a graphical tutorial on How to Isolate Safrole.
Crime on a government reservation (tribal land) is FBI jurisdiction isn't it? The FBI Computer Crime shop in Atlanta knows its war around the
Internet. Anyway conducter said nada about native americas, my best bet is that he's talking some wiccan bullshit and my next best bet is that he made
up the whole thing as a smokescreen to see if we would all run for cover.
I know peyote is exempted for tribal ritual among certain tribes. I am quite sure that the exemption does not apply to psilocybin or psilocin, the
active components, if isolated.
So, I dount that sassafras oil is exempted under the law (if it is controlled at all) but I REALLY doubt that any such dubious exemption would extend
to safrole.
Because employing modern technology to isolate safrole is most definitely not part of anyone's traditional religious practices, now, is it?
[Edited on 13-4-2007 by Sauron]
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conducter
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The religion i speak of is Wiccan where the sassafras is very sacred.
The isolation of safrole, which is used in Root beer, although its supposedly carcinogenic.
Hell, diet soda is still on the market and it contains Aspartame, a carcinogen.
The safrole is not for illegal use, nor intended to look like that.
But will await polverones thoughts
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Sauron
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Told you so, Levi. I don't believe wicca has ANY exemptions under DEA regs and I seriously doubt that it has ANY officially recognized standing as a
religion (like IRS exemption) and thus no constitutional protection.
I mean less than the Scientology lunatics.
New Age sewage.
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Levi
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I find all religions laughable but Wiccans don't go door to door trying to save souls so they're all right as far as I'm concerned. You are correct,
though, that they probably shouldn't expect to have any constitutional protection in their affairs. There is no reason, however, that this substance
can't be discussed here as we already discuss a wide variety of illegal substances on this board (see the energetics section). Such discussions
are constitutionally protected and even encouraged as long as they are informative and nonpractical in nature.
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Sauron
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Theoretical photos?
Come now. Pics of doing it are the essence of practice. No "discussion" New you'll have someone posting photos of extracting cocaine from coca, or
converting morphine base to heroin in the Golden Triangle.
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Levi
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I meant nonpractical as in this thread must refrain from becoming a howto thread. Anyhow, I agree that this is treading on thin ice but I fail to see
how it is any different from the threads in the energetic materials section which are full of pictures.
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Sauron
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Major difference. A lot of "energetics" are analytical reagents and as long as they are stored wet are cool even with the DOT. This applies to picric
acid, TNT, TNB off the top of my head. Making 50 g of RDX is not the same as manufacturing C4.
Show me the comparable situation for a Sch I controlled substance. There isn't one. No DEA license, gotcha! Even with a DEA license, maybe Gotcha! as
Shulgin discovered.
Safrole is a bona fide Gotcha. By federal law, there's no (unlicensed) noncriminal use for safrole, regardless of how much the Friend of Wiccan
Friends wants to hem and haw.
BTW aspartame, a dipeptide, meaning a pair of nuclein acids (aspartic and L-Phenylalanine if I recall) is not carcinogenic. You might be thinking of
saccharin, but that is off the market for decades. Meanwhile safrole is a carcinogen and FDA banned its use in root beer. Or anything else.
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evil_lurker
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AFA posting controlled substances, cycloknight has posted pictures of benzaldehyde, and the process of making benzaldehyde so who knows. Others have
posted pictures of manufacturing phosphorus. Both are List I controlled substances.
I can't speak for admin, but I would imagine that posting a picture should be fine, as long as it is timeless and contains no personally
identifying information, such as labels, backgrounds etc.
There is no reasonable suspicion that YOU took the picture of YOUR safrole other actually, other than YOU asking the question if its OK.
Hell who knows where you could have gotten that picture.
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Eclectic
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Could someone please quote chapter and verse what law makes safrole illegal to possess? AFAIK it is only a WATCHED substance, with restrictions and
reporting requirements relating to SALE.
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Sauron
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It was described in this thread as Schedule One. That is not same as List One. Schedule One controlled substances include cocaine and heroin and so on
as well as some precursors. LIST One is just one of the two watch lists. Benzaldehyde is NOT a controlled substance but is a watched one, and
benzaldehyde is a fundamental chemical building block with a kazillion legitimate uses. Snore. I would never criticize anyone for making benzaldehyde,
or buying it, or discussing it.
Quite a few immediate precursors are now Schedule One (P2P for example) so safrole could very well be as well.
My comments assumed the veracity ofthe member who said it was Schedule One.
Indeed someone ought to go find out. I could give a toss about watched chemicals.
[Edited on 13-4-2007 by Sauron]
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Levi
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I could find no authoritative source of information but wikipedia does indeed list safrole as a List I and not a schedule I. The DEA
homepage doesn't feel the need to make these lists readily available... nor does any other .gov webpage that I could find 
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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conducter
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benzaldehyde is also list 1 and openly discussed here. with pictures. how is that different? they are both LIST 1.
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joeflsts
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| Quote: | Originally posted by conducter
so AFOAF has obtained quite a bit of Sassafras oil (real not synthetik) and he was thinking of posting pictures here for discussion of
freeze-purifying the safrole from sassafras oil. He was wondering if that would cause any legal problems for this site? |
I think your AFOAF should post the pictures, his procedure, his SSN, and his address. Then he should call the local PD and invite them over for a
"ritual" dinner.
Joe
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not_important
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| Quote: |
Told you so, Levi. I don't believe wicca has ANY exemptions under DEA regs and I seriously doubt that it has ANY officially recognized standing as a
religion (like IRS exemption) and thus no constitutional protection.
I mean less than the Scientology lunatics.
New Age sewage. |
Aquarian Tabernacle Church | Quote: | | the first Wiccan church with full legal status and recognition by the governments of three nations...The ATC now has many affiliated groups sharing
the benefits and protections of the ATC recognition "umbrella" through its unique group exemption from the U.S. Treasury. |
http://www.aquatabch.org/
A Druid Fellowship (ADF) is an international fellowship devoted to creating a public tradition of Neopagan Druidry.
| Quote: | | We are registered in the state of Delaware as a Nonprofit Corporation and have received recognition of our tax-exempt status from the IRS.
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http://www.adf.org/about/qa.html
So, tax status - yes, DEA exemption - not likely except as a joke to set someone up for having their door kicked down.
| Quote: | | The DEA homepage doesn't feel the need to make these lists readily available... nor does any other .gov webpage that I could find
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http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html
http://www.ntis.gov/products/types/dea/dea-list1chemicals.as...
List I & II
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/802.htm
[Edited on 13-4-2007 by not_important]
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Levi
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Thanks for the link not_important. I had already visited that site prior to posting but I dismissed it as meaningless rhetoric. I have trouble
believing that there are only 25 List I and 9 List II chemicals but perhaps this is just a misconception I have. For those that don't feel like
wading through 5 pages of legal jargon to find the nugget of information I'll post the lists below.
List I:
A) Anthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts.
(B) Benzyl cyanide.
(C) Ephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers.
(D) Ergonovine and its salts.
(E) Ergotamine and its salts.
(F) N-Acetylanthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts.
(G) Norpseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers.
(H) Phenylacetic acid, its esters, and its salts.
(I) Phenylpropanolamine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers.
(J) Piperidine and its salts.
(K) Pseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers.
(L) 3,4-Methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone.
(M) Methylamine.
(N) Ethylamine.
(O) Propionic anhydride.
(P) Isosafrole.
(Q) Safrole.
(R) Piperonal.
(S) N-Methylephedrine.
(T) N-methylpseudoephedrine.
(U) Hydriodic acid.
(V) Benzaldehyde.
(W) Nitroethane.
(X) Gamma butyrolactone.
(Y) Any salt, optical isomer, or salt of an optical isomer of the chemicals listed in subparagraphs (M) through (U) of this paragraph.
List II:
(A) Acetic anhydride.
(B) Acetone.
(C) Benzyl chloride.
(D) Ethyl ether.
(E) Repealed. Pub. L. 101-647, title XXIII, Sec. 2301(b), Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4858.
(F) Potassium permanganate.
(G) 2-Butanone (or Methyl Ethyl Ketone).
(H) Toluene.
(I) Iodine.
(J) Hydrochloric gas.
Chemcrime does not entail death. Chemcrime is death.
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Sauron
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As it appears that safrole is NOT a Schedule One controlled substance or any sort of controlled substance, but merely a List 1 watched chemical, I
have no objection to any postings about it nwhatsoever.
@Levi was the one who characterized safrole above as Schedule One controlled substance, thereby causing all the ruckus.
As to wiccan tax status, I think any discussion of wicca on a forum devoted to SCIENCE is seriously misplaced. I repeat my earlier remark. New Age
sewage.
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Magpie
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Here's List II from the substances being regulated and watched by the govt:
List II:
(A) Acetic anhydride.
(B) Acetone.
(C) Benzyl chloride.
(D) Ethyl ether.
(E) Repealed. Pub. L. 101-647, title XXIII, Sec. 2301(b), Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4858.
(F) Potassium permanganate.
(G) 2-Butanone (or Methyl Ethyl Ketone).
(H) Toluene.
(I) Iodine.
(J) Hydrochloric gas.
Look at item (E). I find this incredible! The govt actually removed something, ie, snooped on the public less! All I can say is this must have been
due to pressure from a lobby with a lot of money. I'm sure it wasn't due to any complaints of amateur chemists.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Eclectic
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Could we make it clear to any LEO's and Barney Fife types looking in, as well as paranoid druggies, that just HAVING list I and list II chemicals, is
NOT a crime? USEING them to make a SCHEDULED substance IS.
[Edited on 4-13-2007 by Eclectic]
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