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Author: Subject: ANGN ever made on SM ?
underground
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[*] posted on 8-6-2018 at 17:07
ANGN ever made on SM ?


I was wondering for a long time now if anyone on SM ever made 3-amino-1-nitroguanidine nitrate ? It can be made from OTC chems right ? After you got nitroguanidine, you could use hydrazine sulphate instead of pure hydrazine to form ANG.

ANGN is more powerful than HMX and the chemicals to make are not that hard to find.




[Edited on 9-6-2018 by underground]
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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[*] posted on 8-6-2018 at 17:32


Yes, ANQN is probably the strongest OTC HEDM.

Note that guanidine in abbreviations is denoted by Q in the current energetic literature, or at least ANQN uses it (Klapotke, 2012). ANQN is the recognized The route is rather simple, an upscaling would make this thing cheap, it also out-performs RDX in double-base propellants by +5-10 Isp.

The thing about ANQN is that although it has a OB of 0, its CO-OB is actually positive, meaning that it is able to act as an oxygen donor in propellants. Making it one of the most-promising double-base candidates I have personally encountered.

- Higher Isp and VoD than HMX.
- Cheap
- Cheaper when scaled up
- Slightly oxygen positive
- High density
- Lower Impact sensitivity than RDX

[Edited on 9-6-2018 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]
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[*] posted on 9-6-2018 at 03:53


Yea it is looks really promising, easy to make and powerful. Some people here have made much more complicated HE like TNGU, TEX, 5-ATZ e.t.c. while no one ANGN. I believe this compound deserves more respect.

RDX.......................340kbar 8750m/s @ 1.82g/cc
HMX.......................390kbar 9100m/s @ 1.91g/cc
ANGN.....................419kbar 9750m/s @ 1.905g/cc


[Edited on 9-6-2018 by underground]
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[*] posted on 9-6-2018 at 13:25


I syntesized a small amount. It is't difficult and the yields are decent, however, it decomposes over time at room temp. It seemed to me that the decomposition mechanism was loss of nitric acid, which is consistent with the rather low alkalinity of the aminonitroguanidine. Maybe a sealed container would keep the equilibrium from shifting too far, and thereby keep decomposition to a minimum.
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[*] posted on 9-6-2018 at 14:51


Quote: Originally posted by Microtek  
I syntesized a small amount. It is't difficult and the yields are decent, however, it decomposes over time at room temp. It seemed to me that the decomposition mechanism was loss of nitric acid, which is consistent with the rather low alkalinity of the aminonitroguanidine. Maybe a sealed container would keep the equilibrium from shifting too far, and thereby keep decomposition to a minimum.


Hmm what about ANQ perchlorate ? Perchloric acid is generally regarded as the strongest of all known simple acids. It could be much more stable.
Or even aminoguanidne nitrate. It would be wonderful if anyone can tell us the explo5 results for AGN and ANG Perch

Can you tell us pls the method you oblained Hydrazine sulphate and then reacting with NQ ?



[Edited on 10-6-2018 by underground]
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[*] posted on 9-6-2018 at 16:41


these can be all found on google scholar, and no, perchlorates ANQ is actually very impact sensitive.

ANQ salts.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/921e/eca88286e0b691bdac1d00...

Aminoguanidine Salts are less studied, because diamino, or the triamino version out performs it.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac60059a021?journalCode...
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5726382A/en

[Edited on 10-6-2018 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]
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[*] posted on 10-6-2018 at 09:22


The first one of those was the one I based my synthesis on. It is not the first time I have seen a paper that didn't give calculated numbers for chlorine containing materials. I wonder if the code doesn't handle it well.

I ran the nitrate and the perchlorate through the Kamlet-Jacobs equations, and they seemed to indicate that the nitrate is probably more powerful:

ANQN : D = 9689 m/s P = 431 kbar

ANQP : D = 9178 m/s P = 395 kbar

For the calculation, I assumed that free chlorine would be formed.
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[*] posted on 10-6-2018 at 11:30


Can you calculate pls for aminoguanidine / diaminoguanidine nitrate ? They would be definitely stable
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[*] posted on 11-6-2018 at 17:21


Quote: Originally posted by Microtek  

ANQN : D = 9689 m/s P = 431 kbar

ANQP : D = 9178 m/s P = 395 kbar


the VoD of ANQN is probably a little lower, EXPLO5 says 9550 if i remember right, regardless, its still of high interest for a rather simple molecule.

underground, aminoguanidine and diaminoguanidine have significantly lower VoDs than ANQN.
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[*] posted on 11-6-2018 at 22:48



Quote:

the VoD of ANQN is probably a little lower, EXPLO5 says 9550 if i remember right


Indeed, theoretical predictions are inherently inaccurate. However, the point was to get some kind of figure for the perchlorate salt, since detonation numbers for it apparently cannot be calculated with EXPLO5. And in order to be able to compare the numbers for the perchlorate salt with those of the nitrate salt, they should be calculated on the same basis (using the same formulas). Also, I think it is noteworthy that the numbers based on K-J equations only diverge by 1.5 % from those based on EXPLO5.


Quote:

Can you calculate pls for aminoguanidine / diaminoguanidine nitrate ?



Just google Kamlet-Jacobs equations and plug the numbers into them. You need the heat of formation for the salt as well as for the reaction products (and you need to make an educated guess as to what the detonation reaction looks like) and also the density.

[Edited on 12-6-2018 by Microtek]
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