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Author: Subject: Naturopathic Woo split from coffee chemistry thread
D.Orthp
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[*] posted on 20-6-2018 at 03:00
Naturopathic Woo split from coffee chemistry thread


While not related only to coffee, my advice is to stick to natural food if you want good taste. Just because something smells or tastes good does not mean it is good/healthy for you. Lead acetate looks and tastes good too. Not to talk about damage caffeine and nicotine can do for you (mentally too). They are poisons too, although much less than Pb salts. Also many scientists consider salt, and any inorganic chemical poison too. Simply said, avoid: sugar, salt, alcohol, coffee, tea, juice, drugs. According to some scientists man is not supposed to ingest anything inorganic (H2O, NaCl, NaHCO3...). Although they are less scared of H2O than of let's say NaCl. They say plants are supposed to eat NaCl, and man is supposed to eat plant. And add animal to that if you are not vegan/vegetarian. Many people "enjoy tobbaco to death" for example. But I am more sick than you are in this moment probably, so no more advice from me until i get healthy.
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[*] posted on 20-6-2018 at 03:36


Quote: Originally posted by D.Orthp  
While not related only to coffee, my advice is to stick to natural food if you want good taste. Just because something smells or tastes good does not mean it is good/healthy for you. Lead acetate looks and tastes good too. Not to talk about damage caffeine and nicotine can do for you (mentally too). They are poisons too, although much less than Pb salts. Also many scientists consider salt, and any inorganic chemical poison too. Simply said, avoid: sugar, salt, alcohol, coffee, tea, juice, drugs. According to some scientists man is not supposed to ingest anything inorganic (H2O, NaCl, NaHCO3...). Although they are less scared of H2O than of let's say NaCl. They say plants are supposed to eat NaCl, and man is supposed to eat plant. And add animal to that if you are not vegan/vegetarian. Many people "enjoy tobbaco to death" for example. But I am more sick than you are in this moment probably, so no more advice from me until i get healthy.

There is so much wrong with this statement that it is hard to know where to start. (Poor paragraph structure might be as good a place as any.)

It is well understood that poisoning is dependent on dosage. Everything is benign if small enough amounts are taken. Everything is toxic if large enough amounts are taken. The only variable is exactly what the toxicity threshold is for any given substance. Again, this is well known in most cases. We also know the mechanisms by which many compounds affect the human body -- for both positive and negative effects. Toxicity has absolutely nothing to do with whether an compound is organic or inorganic. (And these terms, while they have reasonably specific usage in chemistry vary a lot in definition depending on who is talking. Often it is a meaningless categorisation.)

With respect, your "some scientists" are idiots.




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MJ101
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[*] posted on 20-6-2018 at 04:23


Quote:
[quote=j_sum1]
With respect, your "some scientists" are idiots.


@j_sum1: That's true in so many ways. I've heard it said that "people are stupid and dangerous in large numbers."

@D.Orthp: There are conflicting views about caffeine. Some scientists claim that it's bad for you. Others claim that caffeine helps
with cognition and higher brain function. As far as nicotine is concerned, it seems to me that people take issue with the transport
system used to get the nicotine into the human.

"It's stinky and it produces toxic by-products."

I suspect that the alternative is worse (Vaping)

@D.Orthp: If you are sick, I wish you a speedy recovery. And yes. You (personally) must take care as to what you put into your body.

'Nuff said...

So far, I've noticed that water temperature and purity affect the "product". I think that the size of the granules
also affect the reaction as well. (Yeah...I know. DUH!)

But I'm just trying to do what any good chemist would do. Lay out the steps of the reaction and understand it to its' fullest. :)

I'm still chuckling about the Breaking Bad scene... :D
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D.Orthp
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[*] posted on 20-6-2018 at 04:32


Of course, there's quality and quantity in everything. But why would somebody choose bad quality (like some drug instead of food) for enjoyment? Because natural food is already not good enough? I doubt that caffeine is needed for maintaining life, nobody died due to lack of it. Also it's toxicity can't be compared to that of apple or banana or whatever healthy food. Why animals mammals (cat, dog...) die even if they ingest small quantity of it? How much of some natural food would be needed vs how much caffeine or other drug to produce death in person?

I doubt that anybody died due to eating some comon natural food. But how many people died due to overdosage, medications, beverages etc? What about legal drugs side effects? Even in best case, you just can't compare drugs to food. Food is needed for life, plus can be tasty/enjoying, while those legal drugs and artificial stuff is not and is harmful. Well for some people natural food can't be tasty, but this is only temporary taste perversion, and can be healed by fasting or reducing artificial food and poisons in the long term.

According to many naturopaths, animal or human can't overeat on natural food. They can only overeat and die on artificial stimulating toxic food and drugs.

I don't know why some people hate or don't believe in alternative medicine like naturopathy, rawism, chiropractic, yoga, etc. All they do is remove the cause, change lifestyle and environment, which is the only way to prevent diseases. Also they offer healing much more diseases than normal medicine. They heal cancer, leukemia, diebetes permanently without side effects.

How does it not concern you that way too many people die each year just because of nicotine for example? Maybe much less than caffeine, pharmaceuticals, radiation therapy, transplantation, chemotherapy. Why is chemotherapy so toxic (so much side effects)?

Just one example how mainstream medicine does not make sense and alternative medicine makes sense. They give you antihistaminics for hay fever for example. OK, but when this hay fever turns into sinusitis, then antihistaminics can't help anymore, because disease becomes stronger than the drug. Same is cause of sinusitis or hay fever or any flu, just different dosage (quantitiy) of causes.

Maybe you're one of rare healthy people in this planet, so you're not too concerned with diseases, or their causes. But statistics (number of deaths due to something) are frightening.

I could talk and talk...but as I said I am currently sick, and use antihistaminics to reduce my hay fever. Actually few years ago when i was overeating and vomiting, and went to normal (mainstream medicine) hospital for infective diseases, they treated me in alternative medicine way. They didn't talk about nonsense bacteria/virus/germ causes, but simply asked me what was i eating. And gave me new menu. Simple as that. While menu was not perfect as of some authors like Herbert M Shelton or Ross Horne or J.H.Tilden, it was at least 50% that way. It was with more natural food, although they allowed a bit of teas for example. Looks like the time is coming when mainstream medicine is gonna start applying alternative medicine ideology. That in my country is just one evidence.

I think, if we look relatively ("dependant on dosage"), mainstream medicine is more ignorant and alternative medicine is more caring about peoples' diseases causes, at least about what we eat. Medicine is more detailed, proven, and better in emergency situations. Medicine is more active, and naturalists are more passive. They simply reccommend rest, sleep, avoiding bad food, environment, stuff.

And forgot to mention, nicotine and caffeine are just part of coffee or cigars. But what about sugar, tar, smoke, etc? Can you avoid going to dentist or coughing while enjoying that?

I personally experienced that regardless or how much i brush my teeth, I have to go to dentist same number of times. If not less when i don't brush them.

In my city, 2 years ago, one older man died when he had tooth extracted. Police was involved in investigation, and they didn't find exact cause. Later they simply said he was having some other diseases but not proven. Herbert M Shelton personally killed few people in his health schools (same as hospitals), but he explained in each book why these people died. They did not die of starvation, but (just like in case of that man with tooth) they had too many diseases, and would die anyway, probably faster, had they not reduced food intaked / fasted.

Plus, I am not about more active alternative therapies like taking herbs or acupuncture. They are considered nonsense even by some alternative medicine philosophers/practicioners. Because body or wounds heal by themselves once you remove cause and live/eat/breathe normally.

And I am not only talking about past authors/philosophers/doctors. It's true that Shelton died earlier than some people (age of 90) and was sick few years before that and could not heal his disease, although knew how to heal everybody else's. But he died painlessly. At no point in his disease did he experience pain. Died during sleep. Some say he could not heal his disease because he could not apply his methods, because cared more about others that about himself. Too much work, reading, writing, worrying can be cause of Parkinson's disease. I don't know could he eat healthy at that time.

[Edited on 20-6-2018 by D.Orthp]
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[*] posted on 20-6-2018 at 04:56


Sorry. I just touched it and it exploded.

Missing from your tirade is
Reputable citations.
Meaningful definitions. What is "natural" anyway?
Repeatable experiments.
Mechanisms and metabolic pathways.
Double blind.
Statistical significance.

Or anything related to the OP.

Read the title of this board please!




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D.Orthp
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[*] posted on 20-6-2018 at 05:02


Well, I don't know what is reputable source. You tell me. I don't know if this forum accepts experimental evidence of people. All I know is that wikipedia doesn't. Most of your basic question are already answered correctly on wikipedia or wiktionary. Sorry for going a bit more off topic, but this is health, and it is something universally important for everybody. I don't need to explain all the details to prove something works. I can turn on light, it works. Enough to know how to turn on light switch or where wires go. Turning on light is repeatable, as is fasting, changing diet, changing sleeping, walking, sitting, breathing, aren't they? Linden Method is another alternative therapy, yet is is getting accepted worldwide. Even by WHO etc.

I can't prove anything to you because I did not prove anything to myself yet. As I said I am sick as hell, have 20 mental disorders, and 50 physical/organic diseases. Maybe when i find some motivation/environment which will allow me to test. Then we can change wikipedia and people ideology and everything.

[Edited on 20-6-2018 by D.Orthp]
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Texium (zts16)
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[*] posted on 20-6-2018 at 06:10


Nijaz, ideas to be presented here need to have some backing provided by experimental data, or if they're sourced from writing of others, at least citations of your sources attached, enough information provided for someone else to find and read whatever your primary sources were and evaluate the information for themselves.

Otherwise, it's going to be perceived the same way as every other unsupported idea you have put here. Useless. A waste of time to even read. Uninformed, mostly ignorant speculation, no real work done, no documentation, NOT SCIENCE.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow_and_tomorrow_and_to...

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[Edited on 6-20-2018 by Bert]




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