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Author: Subject: Bromine Trifluoride small scale production
Ghass1974
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[*] posted on 27-7-2018 at 12:27
Bromine Trifluoride small scale production


Hello

Can anyone help direct me in the right track on producing 10lbs a day of Bromine Trifluoride. I know all I have to do is pass fluorine into Bromine.

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Boffis
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[*] posted on 27-7-2018 at 12:31


This is an amateur site and 10lb a day of bromine trifluoride is anything but amateur.
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Ghass1974
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[*] posted on 27-7-2018 at 12:51


I understand sir.
What do you consider an amateur amount ?
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JJay
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[*] posted on 27-7-2018 at 13:30


Bromine trifluoride is a rather dangerous substance. According to what information I have available, when airborne, it is approximately as dangerous as bromine, but it also reacts explosively with water and can produce hydrofluoric acid.

An amateur quantity would probably not exceed a gram.




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clearly_not_atara
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[*] posted on 27-7-2018 at 15:29


I wouldn't be that fearful. It is a dangerous and toxic interhalogen compound, but not that much more frightening than, say, thionyl chloride, which also reacts rapidly and exothermically with water to produce large volumes of toxic gas. However, its solvent compatibility is much worse: it reacts with nearly all aromatic and nitrogen- and oxygen-containing compounds.

According to Wikipedia, BrF3 is produced by the disproportionation of bromine monofluoride. In turn, to produce BrF, I think a good strategy would be to use the reaction of bromine monochloride with silver fluoride in chlorinated solvents. The attached review lists compatible solvents as chloroform, dichloromethane, trichlorofluoromethane, "and similar polyhalogenated solvents". The paper also mentions a reaction of BrF3 with hexafluorobenzene which kills my initial suspicion that chlorobenzene might be a suitable solvent.

It produces a number of interesting reactions, most notably the conversion of alcohols to acyl fluorides, the conversion of dithianes to difluoromethylenes (including -CF2H), the conversion of xanthates and xanthamides to the trifluoromethyl- derivatives, and also the conversion of alpha-ketoesters via their azines to alpha,alpha-difluoroesters, the corresponding acids of which can then be fluorodecarboxylated by BrF3 to trifluoromethanes.

Attachment: rozen2010.pdf (404kB)
This file has been downloaded 21 times

[Edited on 27-7-2018 by clearly_not_atara]




[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
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JJay
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[*] posted on 27-7-2018 at 16:33


I didn't see any information on its compatibility with glass, but I believe that chlorine trifluoride is incompatible. IIRC they store chlorine trifluoride in steel tanks, which quickly passivate. You could probably store it steel ampules.



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Ghass1974
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[*] posted on 27-7-2018 at 16:56


I have handled and manufactured a tool called chemical cutter for years and still in this business. The best way to transfer it is with teflon. My supplier has stopped producing it and I am looking to produce it myself for my needs. Anything guys that will help me make it cheaply is appreciated.
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clearly_not_atara
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[*] posted on 27-7-2018 at 18:03


Quote:
I think a good strategy would be to use the reaction of bromine monochloride with silver fluoride in chlorinated solvents.

If it is available, Fluorinert might be a solvent of choice.

Honestly I did make this up, but all of the "real" methods for BrF3 require using elemental fluorine at some stage. I do not recommend this for reasons that should be obvious. Producing fluorine gas generally requires built-for-purpose equipment that is made of passivated nickel alloys.

Silver fluoride can be prepared by the dissolution of silver oxide in hydrofluoric acid; it is precipitated by adding acetone. Bromine monochloride may be prepared by combining equimolar amounts of bromide and hypochlorite salts and adding this solution to an excess of hydrochloric acid, and I think it can then be extracted from the resulting solution (although I don't know details of the extraction). BrCl is not produced by chlorination of bromine under normal conditions.

Alternatively, it may be more reasonable to find a new supplier.

[Edited on 28-7-2018 by clearly_not_atara]




[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
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Ghass1974
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[*] posted on 30-7-2018 at 06:13


I found a supplier but he is married to my competitor, and playing the monopoly card giving me excuses of how he is incapable to sell it to me because he doesn't have enough.
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Dan Vizine
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[*] posted on 30-7-2018 at 09:20


" a small explosive charge to forcefully direct high-pressure jets of highly corrosive material in a circumferential pattern"....hmmm

Have you looked at Alibaba.com? They have a wide variety of items, some of which are hard to source in the US. I know several people who've had success in sourcing stuff like white P and massive blocks of thallium. Your mileage may vary.





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Ghass1974
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[*] posted on 30-7-2018 at 20:41


I thank you Can. I connected with 2 suppliers in China and they are looking to see if they can supply my needs.
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Ghass1974
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[*] posted on 3-8-2018 at 08:20


All suppliers are not making BrF3 any longer.
Anyone can help ?
Ghass
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MJ101
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[*] posted on 3-8-2018 at 14:37


@Ghass1974: My suggestion to you is to hire a chemical engineer who specializes in halogen chemistry and the reaction vessels necessary to perform reactions of this type.

Here's a link to some info about BrF3 / ClF3, so that you can ask the proper questions.

http://notes.fluorine1.ru/contents/history/2000/3_2000/retro...

I hope this helps.
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Ghass1974
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[*] posted on 9-8-2018 at 13:48


Thank you MJ101.
I have been reading a lot and hoping to take the step of producing it on a smaller scale, like 10lbs. I don't have the means to hire such an expensive engineer. I'll have to rely on People like you to kind direct me a little. I invented this tool now the only supplier in the US doesn't want to supply me because it hurts my future competitor who hasn't offered nothing new for this industry.
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