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Author: Subject: Parents Restricting Chemistry
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sad.gif posted on 28-7-2018 at 14:42
Parents Restricting Chemistry


Now this won't be a problem for much longer (1 more year to college) but I am starting my senior year in high school and my parents, being scientists themself, are highly restrictive when it comes to doing amateur chemistry. My father, being a climatologist, should know better than to fear something (chemistry) because of stereotypes and a lack of knowledge and my mom is a geologist. Geology is quite similar to chemistry and she does not understand me still. My dad doesn't even like me distilling water because it has the word "distill" in it. He knows what it means but doesn't understand. They will not let me buy hydrochloric acid, even when dilute or make my own. It has taken much convincing to let me make sulfuric acid in very dillute concentrations, but not HCl? My dad won't let me buy ammonia so I can make /Schweizer's reagent because he knows ammonia makes gasses when combined with certain things. I'm not stupid or dangerous, they simply do not understand how safe it is when used properly (don't worry I'm careful). They seem to think im just throwing crap together in a beaker and hoping it does something. Whenever I want to make something they ask "and what would you use that for?" Ive started responding with "why would an artist paint a picture?" I really don't know what to do. They say they support my love for chemistry but I'm not so sure I believe it. I'm really getting tired of this, they should know better than to be society's typical chemical phobists.



List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Am
Last Acquired: Mg
Next: B
--------------
My blog: https://experimentalchemist.blogspot.com/
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[*] posted on 28-7-2018 at 15:12


Quote: Originally posted by symboom  
Demostrate to them its organized labeled and clean and what you plan to do with the waste.
And keep an orginized journal make it look professional not sure if that would work but worth a try
Ammonia is a tricky one ammonia is associated with meth labs unfortunatly and it is easy to out gas ammonia in some reactions.
Build a lab report.
[Edited on 28-7-2018 by symboom]

[Edited on 28-7-2018 by symboom]


You see, the problem is I have done these things. I have a very detailed and organized journal, I dispose of my waste like they tell me too (the only way they let me and I don't like it) which is down the sink (they dont think that anything I have is that dangerous) and they have seen my lab. My lab is usually fairly organized and I always store my chemicals properly and keep them well labled. I actually think I can use ammonia now, I convinced my mom she needed it to kill slugs in the garden.
I will work on building a better lab report.




List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Am
Last Acquired: Mg
Next: B
--------------
My blog: https://experimentalchemist.blogspot.com/
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[*] posted on 28-7-2018 at 18:18


Do you think they ever allowed me? No. I many times had to throw away all chemicals and equipment in fear that they will find and make me homeless or report me to police or social workers or mental hospital. I think all people are bad, all, 100% of people on this planet. Do not trust anybody. It's not about chemistry only, but abut bad people. Various people complained to me for my:
- typing keyboard when they try to sleep
- chemistry and electronics are shit, "why do you need that?"
- staying awake from 2 AM to 7 AM or simply whole night
- losing their money on chemicals and other dangerous stuff (switching mode power supply for PC)
- not working, "people live from their work, you should work something"
- failing school, "how could some fools mafia pass highschool, and you failed idiot?"
- sniffing dangerous gas, "oh, heeelp somebody, this guy is sniffing toxic gases (SO2, HCl, unpacked Li-ion battery...)"
- something falling into my eye (K2S2O7...)
- soaking hands in chemicals ("you are gonna burn skin and die" (H2SO4, H2O2, 100% CH3COOH...))
- getting married ("get a wife idiot, how do you plan to live")
- doing illegal online stuff (giving dangerous advice, warez, hacking, spying, threats, disturbing people)
- keeping "garbage" ("idiot, you are filling our house with your garbage, throw it away, you don't need that shit")
- wanting to set various buildings "in air" ("huh, our school has insurance, we would be happy if you blow it up")
- spending 16 hours on smartphone or laptop, having no life ("your eyes are gonna fall out, you are gonna die of radiation")
- panhandling, stealing, being homeless, sleeping on street or in forest ("police are gonna find you, somebody will kill you")
- liking chemistry and electronics ("that shit won't help you in life, things are not made using chemistry, do singing or drawing or programming instead, that is more useful and real")

After all it's about you needing to get rid of parents/people, get free, become independant, have your space (base, home, lab, garage, soil...). Even if people were good and would not complain, it is still better feeling to be independant in every possible way. So my advice, work on you independance plans. Do stuff secretly. They can't watch or control you 100% of time. Use any advantage you have.

And do you know what is the best feeling in life? Avoiding something bad or dangeorus. Being able to avoid something you don't like or "suffering". I once slept in forest and were returning to city, and police approached me with their vehicle at 3 AM, and asked what in a hell am i doing alone in this hours, and i told "walking". They just asked what I have and my name, and kind of like they were looking at something and recognized me, and I heard them talk something to somebody on radio, and go away. Then in few meters far, at entrance of my city, there came another police vehicle and turned on light sirens, and I think waited for me to drive me or arrest me, there was no people around. Probably guys from 1st vehicle told them, realizing I live on another end of city. And I was supposed to come to that vehicle in 5 minutes maximum. And they were holding some optical device or something, to watch me as i come closer. But luckily there were just enough building and path was curved a bit (almost straight line), so I hidden behind those building, and quickly ran into another path. And found secret place to sleep near street. And I knew they won't be searching for me there. And I thought how I avoided prison or interrogation or control...and what a hell are they thinking...so cool to hide or avoid some shit. :P And actually 1 month before that Canadian police contacted me via email saying they will do anything in their power to prosecute and put me in prison, for trying to kidnap, rape, shoot some girl, and disturbing her family on fb. This sherrif/deputy told he will seek help of all international agencies just to find me, and it will not take long time. Huh, I avoided arrest!!! I am freeeeeeeee!

[Edited on 29-7-2018 by MultiplePersonality]
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[*] posted on 28-7-2018 at 18:44


Quote: Originally posted by MultiplePersonality  
Do you think they ever allowed me? No. I many times had to throw away all chemicals and equipment in fear that they will find and make me homeless or report me to police or social workers or mental hospital. I think all people are bad, all, 100% of people on this planet. Do not trust anybody. It's not about chemistry only, but abut bad people. Various people complained to me for my:
- typing keyboard when they try to sleep
- chemistry and electronics are shit, "why do you need that?"
- staying awake from 2 AM to 7 AM or simply whole night
- losing their money on chemicals and other dangerous stuff (switching mode power supply for PC)
- not working, "people live from their work, you should work something"
- failing school, "how could some fools mafia pass highschool, and you failed idiot?"
- sniffing dangerous gas, "oh, heeelp somebody, this guy is sniffing toxic gases (SO2, HCl, unpacked Li-ion battery...)"
- something falling into my eye (K2S2O7...)
- soaking hands in chemicals ("you are gonna burn skin and die" (H2SO4, H2O2, 100% CH3COOH...))
- getting married ("get a wife idiot, how do you plan to live")
- doing illegal online stuff (giving dangerous advice, warez, hacking, spying, threats, disturbing people)
- keeping "garbage" ("idiot, you are filling our house with your garbage, throw it away, you don't need that shit")
- wanting to set various buildings "in air" ("huh, our school has insurance, we would be happy if you blow it up")
- spending 16 hours on smartphone or laptop, having no life ("your eyes are gonna fall out, you are gonna die of radiation")
- panhandling, stealing, being homeless, sleeping on street or in forest ("police are gonna find you, somebody will kill you")
- liking chemistry and electronics ("that shit won't help you in life, things are not made using chemistry, do singing or drawing or programming instead, that is more useful and real")

After all it's about you needing to get rid of parents/people, get free, become independant, have your space (base, home, lab, garage, soil...). Even if people were good and would not complain, it is still better feeling to be independant in every possible way. So my advice, work on you independance plans. Do stuff secretly. They can't watch or control you 100% of time. Use any advantage you have.

And do you know what is the best feeling in life? Avoiding something bad or dangeorus. Being able to avoid something you don't like or "suffering". I once slept in forest and were returning to city, and police approached me with their vehicle at 3 AM, and asked what in a hell am i doing alone in this hours, and i told "walking". They just asked what I have, and I heard them talk something to somebody on radio, and go away. Then in few meters far, at entrance of my city, there came another police vehicle and turned on light sirens, and I think waited for me to drive me or arrest me, there was no people around. Probably guys from 1st vehicle told them, realizing I live on another end of city. And I was supposed to come to that vehicle in 5 minutes maximum. And they were holding some optical device or something, to watch me as i come closer. But luckily there were just enough building and path was curved a bit (almost straight line), so I hidden behind those building, and quickly ran into another path. And found secret place to sleep near street. And I knew they won't be searching for me there. And I thought how I avoided prison or interrogation or control...and what a hell are they thinking...so cool to hide or avoid some shit. :P

[Edited on 29-7-2018 by MultiplePersonality]


Well that escalated quickly. They don't think I'm making drugs or anything, they are smart enough to know that I dont have the chemicals to do so. They are simply overprotective. They are doing this out of love, but they don't understand that I know what I'm doing enough not to hurt myself out of careless or inability.




List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Am
Last Acquired: Mg
Next: B
--------------
My blog: https://experimentalchemist.blogspot.com/
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[*] posted on 28-7-2018 at 19:46


I wouldn't pay too much attention to MultiplePersonality.

With respect to your problem, the best course of action will be to open up some dialogue with your parents. Bounce it back on them -- "What things can I do?" "What exactly are your concerns?" "I am interested in XYZ. Is there a way that I can do this wile meeting your concerns?"

Ask a half dozen questions that you have selected in advance and listen. Then negotiate some kind of workable compromise. I would aim for something along the lines of:
  • reagents limited to what I can buy at the supermarket, hardware store or pottery supplier
  • no naked flames inside
  • no explosions
  • no gas emissions that can be smelled by any others in the household
  • no illegal synths or anything that would raise questions if LEO were to inspect it

    There is a whole lot that you can do at test-tube scale without upsetting anyone. There is a lot that you can do with OTC items. I would recommend staying with inorganic chemistry at first although you might get away with making oil of wintergreen or something like that.
    http://www.explorechem.com/home.html gives a lot of ideas at a test tube scale.
    Here is woelen's site which has a huge amount of interesting stuff; some of which might be suitable. http://woelen.homescience.net/science/index.html
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    [*] posted on 28-7-2018 at 20:39


    Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
    I wouldn't pay too much attention to MultiplePersonality.

    With respect to your problem, the best course of action will be to open up some dialogue with your parents. Bounce it back on them -- "What things can I do?" "What exactly are your concerns?" "I am interested in XYZ. Is there a way that I can do this wile meeting your concerns?"

    Ask a half dozen questions that you have selected in advance and listen. Then negotiate some kind of workable compromise. I would aim for something along the lines of:
  • reagents limited to what I can buy at the supermarket, hardware store or pottery supplier
  • no naked flames inside
  • no explosions
  • no gas emissions that can be smelled by any others in the household
  • no illegal synths or anything that would raise questions if LEO were to inspect it

    There is a whole lot that you can do at test-tube scale without upsetting anyone. There is a lot that you can do with OTC items. I would recommend staying with inorganic chemistry at first although you might get away with making oil of wintergreen or something like that.
    http://www.explorechem.com/home.html gives a lot of ideas at a test tube scale.
    Here is woelen's site which has a huge amount of interesting stuff; some of which might be suitable. http://woelen.homescience.net/science/index.html


  • I have opened smaller dialogues before on specific progects, which is why I can have sulfuric acid (unless they change their minds), sodium and lithium hydroxide. There are surely some others that I would buy but shipping to Alaska for most dangerous chemicals is anywhere from 50 to 100 USD. I never have figured out the line where they get worried because they dont care to much if I do thermite or something similar but dont want me to make methanol by dry distilling wood. I try and avoid odors, but for some I have built a fume hood (not for super dense gasses or anything like SO2 or NO2) but it helps. Would the synthesis of piperine raise eyebrows? When school starts back up I won't be very limited with what I can do as I am the top chem student in my class and the teacher lets me do whatever as long as it doesn't cost the school to much. The problem is I can't usually keep what I make. I am capable of doing a broad range of organic chem but parents don't let me buy the req. equipment. I like your guidelines and will talk with them.
    PS; I really don't expect for people here to be all that sympathetic for me as many have had much, much worse. I just want to know what I can do.




    List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
    --------------------------------
    Elements Collected: H, Li, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Am
    Last Acquired: Mg
    Next: B
    --------------
    My blog: https://experimentalchemist.blogspot.com/
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    [*] posted on 28-7-2018 at 21:03


    The key thing is to ask questions. Then your parents feel they are in control and that you are listening.

    Once you know exactly where they stand and why, then you can navigate to a place of mutual agreement.
    This is negotiations 101. The questions come first. It positions all the parties to a place where agreement is possible.
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    [*] posted on 28-7-2018 at 22:45


    Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
    The key thing is to ask questions. Then your parents feel they are in control and that you are listening.

    Once you know exactly where they stand and why, then you can navigate to a place of mutual agreement.
    This is negotiations 101. The questions come first. It positions all the parties to a place where agreement is possible.


    Thank you so much. I actually tried this today and I now have access to methanol. Instead of dry distilling wood, I can now use Heet fuel injector cleaner instead. I have to buy it but it will work for my purposes. And on piperine?




    List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
    --------------------------------
    Elements Collected: H, Li, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Am
    Last Acquired: Mg
    Next: B
    --------------
    My blog: https://experimentalchemist.blogspot.com/
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    [*] posted on 4-8-2018 at 14:54


    If you are a senior in high school its pretty pathetic they wont let you use HCl. You are almost, if not, a legal adult. You should have the capacity to handle yourself life one.





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    [*] posted on 30-8-2018 at 14:58


    Quote:
    my mom is a geologist. Geology is quite similar to chemistry and she does not understand me still. My dad doesn't even like me distilling water.



    Obviously the fact that your parents are 'scientists' means little to nothing. Being a 'scientist' now is just being a technician or an academic on the state's payroll not a person interested in truth. 'Science' is just a job to get money.


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    [*] posted on 5-9-2018 at 11:54


    Same problem for me except that my parents have absoutely no idea what chemistry is.In a few years i will buy house that will be only my property so they cannot tell me what I do.
    I tried to show them that everything I do is legal but they are noobs at reading anything online,they dont even know how to turn on a computer.

    There is a dictatorship in my family.But in a few years i will take revenge.My physics teacher told that he doesnt forgive anyone and i took example from him.

    [Edited on 02-09-2017 by nagyepf]
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    [*] posted on 6-9-2018 at 00:49


    Quote: Originally posted by nagyepf  
    There is a dictatorship in my family.But in a few years i will take revenge.My physics teacher told that he doesnt forgive anyone and i took example from him.


    In my opinion:

    Your Physics teacher is a poor role model,
    stand back and look at your physics teacher - is he happy with life ?
    do you really want to be like him ?

    Keeping revenge in your heart will slowly destroy you - don't do it !
    (and if you do achieve revenge it will not make you a better person)
    You may feel that the world is unfair,
    IT IS ! ..... You have to make the best of it.
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    [*] posted on 6-9-2018 at 01:31


    It is sad that they use product of chemistry thousand times every day, whenver they brush teeth, wash clothes, chew a gum...

    ...and most of this came from experimentation and learning about properties and behaviour of matter.

    Let them know there is great learning in reproducing experiments. People learn by practice, trial and error and only this way you can advance to do useful stuff.
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    [*] posted on 6-9-2018 at 02:53


    Quote: Originally posted by nimgoldman  
    It is sad that they use product of chemistry thousand times every day, whenver they brush teeth, wash clothes, chew a gum...

    ...and most of this came from experimentation and learning about properties and behaviour of matter.

    Let them know there is great learning in reproducing experiments. People learn by practice, trial and error and only this way you can advance to do useful stuff.


    Yeah, but if someone lives in parents house, doesn't pay rent, or for food - you have to obey rules of parents. I can imagine why someone would not like for me to do chemistry in their living premises. I have few surfaces and walls ruined by something spilled.

    It's a shame, that opportunity of a new fresh thinker is impacted by this. Take this year to read, take notes, do theoretical stuff, and when you have chance - release the KRAKEN!




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    [*] posted on 6-9-2018 at 06:53


    Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
    Quote: Originally posted by nagyepf  
    There is a dictatorship in my family.But in a few years i will take revenge.My physics teacher told that he doesnt forgive anyone and i took example from him.


    In my opinion:

    Your Physics teacher is a poor role model,
    stand back and look at your physics teacher - is he happy with life ?
    do you really want to be like him ?

    Keeping revenge in your heart will slowly destroy you - don't do it !
    (and if you do achieve revenge it will not make you a better person)
    You may feel that the world is unfair,
    IT IS ! ..... You have to make the best of it.


    Yes,my physics teacher is happy with his life.He only doesnt forgive because many students take abuse of that.In the school there are about 300 students and the number of students who love physics and chemistry is about 60.Yes, 60 from 300.Can you imagine how ordinary,boring the
    240 students are?
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    [*] posted on 7-9-2018 at 06:45


    Quote: Originally posted by TheMrbunGee  
    Quote: Originally posted by nimgoldman  
    It is sad that they use product of chemistry thousand times every day, whenver they brush teeth, wash clothes, chew a gum...

    ...and most of this came from experimentation and learning about properties and behaviour of matter.

    Let them know there is great learning in reproducing experiments. People learn by practice, trial and error and only this way you can advance to do useful stuff.


    Yeah, but if someone lives in parents house, doesn't pay rent, or for food - you have to obey rules of parents. I can imagine why someone would not like for me to do chemistry in their living premises. I have few surfaces and walls ruined by something spilled.

    It's a shame, that opportunity of a new fresh thinker is impacted by this. Take this year to read, take notes, do theoretical stuff, and when you have chance - release the KRAKEN!


    Yes I forgot to write: "Get off your parents house as soon as possible..."

    Or at least find an uncle's garage or some other place to do what you like.
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    [*] posted on 7-9-2018 at 13:27


    I would not take relationship advice from a forum with madness in its name but if your parents say they want to support your interest maybe ask them what they want you to do as a an experiment and ease them into it.

    Something similar worked for me.
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    [*] posted on 6-1-2019 at 13:35


    I wanted to make silver nitrate and for that I needed nitric acid.

    I knew an online store that sells it but my father didn´t allow me to buy it. He went to Amsterdam for a presentation and when he was back he saw that I had built a reacctor that occupied my whole room out of a microwave, a maison jar and other things that produced nitric acid from air.

    Now he buys me all the acid I need.
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    [*] posted on 6-1-2019 at 13:52


    i feel you, due to the fact that i am young (in hs, i dont want to say my exact age), my parents and hardware store workers think i am just a wanna be chemist who has no idea what he is doing and is provably a threat to himself and other, (ignore my signature pls). some hardware store workers would not let me buy hcl unless i had a parent present. i can generally sweet talk my parents into buying me some dangerous stuff sometimes. but one time i wanted to makes sugar fuel (sucrose and kno3 as oxidizer) but my dad got really mad at me and called me insane, its just sugar fuel.



    wanna be chemist who has no idea what he is doing and is provably a threat to himself and others.
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    [*] posted on 6-1-2019 at 14:47


    Quote: Originally posted by Felab  
    I wanted to make silver nitrate and for that I needed nitric acid.

    I knew an online store that sells it but my father didn´t allow me to buy it. He went to Amsterdam for a presentation and when he was back he saw that I had built a reacctor that occupied my whole room out of a microwave, a maison jar and other things that produced nitric acid from air.

    Now he buys me all the acid I need.


    Best post ever.

    And this is why we are members of a forum with madness in its name. Not to dispel, or even add to, the madness... But to deal with it in the best way possible.
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    [*] posted on 6-1-2019 at 17:34


    "I need a breaker and a dis..."
    "WTF DO YOU NEED THAT FOR!!!"
    "For maki..."
    "THIS PIECE OF SHIT IS MAKING METH NOW?!!"
    "No, akhdakhfwkahfuwhkauhf...(I talked about the process of making meth and doing it perfectly safe without people knowing, how to bypass all the eyes watching and where to get rid of it. I also talked about how I'm way too lazy to do any of it no matter how much I get paid. And after that I talked about what I am planning on doing, at that point I feel like no one is listening anymore.)"

    Shuts them up faster than anything ;)
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    [*] posted on 7-1-2019 at 03:52


    Quote: Originally posted by VSEPR_VOID  
    If you are a senior in high school its pretty pathetic they wont let you use HCl. You are almost, if not, a legal adult. You should have the capacity to handle yourself life one.



    I wasn't even allowed to get a basic children's chemistry set when I was a teenager. :-(


    Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  

    In my opinion:

    Your Physics teacher is a poor role model,



    In regard to holding grudges I'd agree. That's one thing the Christians definitely have right - drop the anger and bitterness, forgive and move on. Be kind even if they have totally missed your intentions. They are only human and are trying to look out for you and keep you safe.

    However! - That doesn't mean you can't go get your own house and build your lab to stick it to your parents for not letting you pursue what you enjoy now. There's plenty of time to pursue your hobby. ;) enjoy.




    \"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger generation\" - Eric Cartman
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    [*] posted on 16-1-2019 at 19:29


    Funny, I forgot I posted this. I have everything worked out at this point, I have established rules and have to explain the chemistry of anything moderately dangerous I do. I'm mostly limited by location.



    List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
    --------------------------------
    Elements Collected: H, Li, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Am
    Last Acquired: Mg
    Next: B
    --------------
    My blog: https://experimentalchemist.blogspot.com/
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