Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Which would be more a useful gas: Nitrogen or Argon?
Loptr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1297
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Grateful

[*] posted on 7-8-2018 at 10:28
Which would be more a useful gas: Nitrogen or Argon?


I should have an 80 c.f. inert gas tank on the way from a seller on eBay. I think Argon would probably be the most useful, since it won't form compounds with things like Lithium, as Nitrogen is capable of doing.

What do you guys have to say?




"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
View user's profile View All Posts By User
JJay
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3412
Registered: 15-10-2015
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-8-2018 at 10:32


For the most part, nitrogen is fine, but nitrogen does react under a few circumstances such as the one you mentioned. In amateur quantities, the price difference is negligible.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
WGTR
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 925
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
Member Is Offline

Mood: Outline

[*] posted on 7-8-2018 at 10:54


Argon is all around better, I think. Nitrogen is cheap when ordered as a liquid by the tanker-full, but otherwise when I have the choice I pick argon. It's also heavier than air, and can blanket reactions better than nitrogen.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1803
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 7-8-2018 at 11:03


Agreed, for all of the above reasons. Heavier than air, more inert than nitrogen, and comparable pricing. Ar is just better overall. Once you have the cylinder, (re)filling it is cheap!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Hendrik
Harmless
*




Posts: 23
Registered: 29-7-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 7-8-2018 at 11:40


If the price for nitrogen is significantly cheaper than the price for argon, follow that route. If not, buy argon.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Loptr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1297
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Grateful

[*] posted on 7-8-2018 at 12:31


Well, I am convinced. Argon it is.

Now what should I be aware of as far as the regulator? I still need to get one, maybe with a drying train? What else is there?




"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
View user's profile View All Posts By User
WGTR
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 925
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
Member Is Offline

Mood: Outline

[*] posted on 7-8-2018 at 13:38


A rotameter with an adjustment knob would be a must-have, I think. The necessary size of the rotameter really depends on what you intend to do with it, as you may need several cubic feet per second for one thing, or 0.1 cubic feet per hour for something else. Welding supply stores often sell the types that screw directly into the pressure regulator. Since the gas isn't supplied with the cylinder, the purity may not be guaranteed, and a desiccant tube followed by a 10 micron filter might be a good buy if you think it is necessary.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
DrP
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 625
Registered: 28-9-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: exothermic

[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 04:58


Quote: Originally posted by WGTR  
I pick argon. It's also heavier than air, and can blanket reactions better than nitrogen.



I'd say Argon for the same reason - it's heavy and you can get away with popping the top of a vessel to add stuff in with an Argon flow from the vessel. With Nitrogen, if you tried to do that you would let oxygen into the system for sure.




\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger generation\" - Eric Cartman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1803
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 05:42


I'd be surprised if you need a drying tube for your argon; the gas should be very dry from the cylinder. If you need super dry gas, then using liquid nitrogen might actually be preferable.

One thing I found incredibly annoying is it seems like every gas has its own specialized regulator, flowmeter, threading standard, etc. etc. etc. I couldn't use a nitrogen regulator for argon, and couldn't connect regular NPT steel pipe directly to the regulator either. It's a never ending train of couplers. :mad: I highly recommend talking with the guys at the shop where you get your gas and telling them exactly what you plan to do. My local shop was extremely helpful in getting me all the right fittings.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Loptr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1297
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Grateful

[*] posted on 8-8-2018 at 09:26


Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
I'd be surprised if you need a drying tube for your argon; the gas should be very dry from the cylinder. If you need super dry gas, then using liquid nitrogen might actually be preferable.

One thing I found incredibly annoying is it seems like every gas has its own specialized regulator, flowmeter, threading standard, etc. etc. etc. I couldn't use a nitrogen regulator for argon, and couldn't connect regular NPT steel pipe directly to the regulator either. It's a never ending train of couplers. :mad: I highly recommend talking with the guys at the shop where you get your gas and telling them exactly what you plan to do. My local shop was extremely helpful in getting me all the right fittings.


Thanks MrHomeScientist!

I will be sure to ask them about my options. I have wanted to see how well air/moisture free techniques can be done at home with strong bases like organometallics.

[Edited on 8-8-2018 by Loptr]




"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top