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Author: Subject: Cyanide Insect Bait
bio2
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[*] posted on 12-8-2007 at 13:09
Cyanide Insect Bait


Sodium Cyanide 2.5g, Sugar (iced tea mix) 30g was mixed
with 100g water giving a thin syrup.

This was spread thin in protected plastic bait stations but
the ants and roaches don't seem to be wanting to eat it.

Ants are observed to "feel" or maybe taste the syrup but leave
and don't bring back their comrades.

I'm thinking maybe the about 2.5% NaCN bait is too strong but can't find any information on cyanide insect baits searching Google. Maybe a 1% or less solution would be better but this is
nothing more than a wild quess on my part.

Apparently these cyanide baits were phased out years ago although HCN prepared as a fumigant is still used for bark
beetles in fruit trees.

Anyone know of a formula or have any ideas on how to do this?

This is all I could find after a couple hours searching google.

........In 1947, sodium cyanide was first issued by the government as a poison to control indoor pests, such as ants, bacteria, and other insects and rodents..............

[Edited on by bio2]
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kazaa81
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[*] posted on 12-8-2007 at 15:37


why do you want to kill ants?
there are way better solutions, like boric acid.
I wouldn't like to spread cyanides around...
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bio2
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[*] posted on 12-8-2007 at 16:00


It's mainly roaches I'm after and I have already a boric acid bait that I made and experimented with.

The tiny little ants around here have invaded the porch
making minihills every few inches.

BTW I'm not going to be "spreading cyanides around" in any unsafe manner.

Also boric acid is only marginally effective compared to "real" poisons.
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guy
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[*] posted on 12-8-2007 at 21:08


Why don't you just buy an ant bait?
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DeAdFX
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[*] posted on 12-8-2007 at 22:12


Well if your really gung ho about frying those sons of a bitches then you could try pentachlorophenol among others...

Prehaps try using pure sugar + a small amount of base or ph buffer ( to avoid loss of cyanide to HCN) + a little bit of guar/xanthan gum to make a paste or bait pellets. I believe those ICE tea mixes contain citric acid. Prehaps the citric acid isn't attractive to the ants? If all else fails you still have physical means (boot/foot/shoe/newspaper).
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bio2
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[*] posted on 13-8-2007 at 10:07


The citric acid being unpalatable occurred to me however I diluted the solution by half and now the ants are eating
it and their comrades are having no problem stepping over the dead bodies. They don't all die very quickly so they are able to spread the word to the troops.

The roaches however don't seem to go for the sugary solution so I need to grind up some roaches to spice it up.

What attracts roaches well? The Hints from Heloise (anyone remember her?) is where the dead roaches as attractant idea came from. Apparently they like to dine on their stinking dismembered fellows.
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ciscosdad
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[*] posted on 11-9-2007 at 15:35
Ant Bait


We have an ongoing ant problem that I thought was Argentine Ants (from the dense collection of anthills they made and the appearance of all being the same nest).
However, they turned out to be Coastal Brown Ants (also known as Big Headed Ants).
The Argentine Ants are attracted to sugar, but are unaffected by Borax based baits.The local authorities recommend a rather expensive commercial bait for them.
The Coastal Brown are attracted by oil based baits and borax is effective. I have seen a recipe that is basically honey, smooth peanut butter plus Boric acid that I will be trying this Spring (soon!). I will be aiming for a boron concentration of around 5-10% as a start.

I recommend you identify your problem ants. Your local authorities will have some sort of identification service. Proceed from there.
Not sure Cyanaide is a good idea. Heavy metals used to be used (Thallium), but good luck getting any of that! Lead salts may work, but I'm not sure if they are lethal enough for insects. Go with Boron based if you can.
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DerAlte
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[*] posted on 11-9-2007 at 17:47


One used to be able to get lead arsenate baits maybe you still can. Interesting compound, possible source for arsenic or even lead...

It had the merit that roaches are scavengers - they eat dead roaches and it gets recycled and soon dispatches hordes of the critters...

Regards, Der Alte
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ciscosdad
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[*] posted on 11-9-2007 at 18:18
Roaches


When I was a child my parents had a (brief) cockroach plague in the kitchen . They sorted it out in a few days with common borax. No bait, just powder all over the floor and table initially, then a regular supply under the frig and other out of the way spots. My mothers unenthusiastic houskeeping was the initial trigger, but there never was a repeat of the plague, even though her houskeeping never improved.:(
Of course you may just be looking for an excuse to use the cyanide?:D
I have no idea what to use to attract the little buggers. My objective has always been to eliminate them.
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[*] posted on 11-9-2007 at 19:32


Argentine ants can be controlled with borate type poisons. The Morgan Hill Times, Friday, December 27, 2002 had a formula using 4 teaspoons boric acid powder, 3 cups of water and 1 cup of granulated sugar.

Here http://www.ps.uci.edu/~tomba/ants/ they say 1/4 l (250 ml) of hot tap water, 8 teaspoons of sugar, 1 teaspoon of boric acid.

Borax can be used in place of boric acid. Liquid baits should be covered in a way that allows the ants access but prevents pets from drinking it.

You want a fairly slowly acting poison so that the workers carry it back to the nest, killing the queen and larva.
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ciscosdad
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[*] posted on 12-9-2007 at 15:08
Borax for Argentine Ants


@ Not_important
According to our local Agricultural Dept entymologist, the Argentine Ants can detect the presence of Borax/Boracic Acid at sublethal levels and refuse the bait.
Do you think there may be a local population with better taste buds? (I'm not being facetious here). I wonder if they can taste cyanide in the same way? I guess it all gets down to thresholds.

Apologies to Bio2, we have hijacked his thread somewhat.
I think you are correct about the cyanide baits having too much cyanide. Obviously the bait needs to be lethal, preferably after some nominal delay so the customers can return to the nest and hopefully to feed or be eaten by their nest mates. Try a few baits with variable concentrations of cyanide. Apparently they don't like the 2.5%, so do a few to determine the actual acceptance threshold (say 0.5%,1%,1.5% and 2%).
How long is the cyanide likely to remain active in the body of the (hopefully) dead ant? Long enough to affect the ones that eat the body? Persistence is the big advantage of the Boron based baits (and the heavy metal based ones as well).
Let us know the results. Anything that can zap the little pests is worth exploring.:)
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