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Author: Subject: The terrorists have won
franklyn
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The terrorists have won

This excerpt from the current issue of New Scientist magazine illustrates that
we have in fact transcended into psychosis.
http://www.newscientisttech.com/article/dn12458

I'm perfectly aware that telltale behaviors characterize individuals harboring
contraband and automated scanning may well improve detection. Determining
a persons conduct in the future from observation is akin to the results you
might get from a polygraph exam to determine the same thing.

Envision the dialog of the individual reviewing the " candidates " identified by
this automated proceedure - Hmm , looks like a duck and that walk looks awfully
duckish to me.
Reminds me of the reason given by a " meth head " who shot someone for no
apparent reason in a bar. " He kept looking at me funny "

In the imperial japanese empire prior to it's capitulation at the end of the second
world war , there existed a law enforcement organisation which was referred to
as the thought police. They would arrest people on the pretext that they were
thinking bad thoughts. Their function was primarily political repression and censure
rather than any legitimate law enforcement function.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

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YT2095
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the article is News yes, but as for "The terrorists have won" I thought that was a Given anyway.

sorry if I sound jaded and bitter, it`s because I AM!

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
Phosphor-ing
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You have good reason to be. The citizen police decided your friend must have been a bombmaker
International Hazard

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Mood: Patience growing thin !

Fortune Teller

There's one who lives across the street from me. Maybe the government should hire her
for terrorist detection ! Taken on its face, she's about as reliable as Uncle Sam. At least
she'll tell me that I'll live to 135, Elvis is still alive, politicians can be trusted and I'll have a
good laugh ! As for government workers, I can rely on them to be wrong 99% of the time.

Power comes from the barrel of a gun !
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This shit fucking pisses me off enough to do something sinister about it.

Is that a radical thought or is that now criminal?
The_Davster
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Thoughtcrime doubleplus ungood?

Eclectic
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Not even a "Minority Report"
Sergei_Eisenstein
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Question: will people allow this to happen or will they - again - conform?

Projects like this are very dangerous, not just because they harass your person today, but because the interpretation of social definitions can suddenly change. Most people would agree that special care should be taken for the mentally ill amongst us; but realize that "mentally ill" means different things to different people. The Russian CP sent many mentally ill patients to Siberia. The "terrorists" of today may not be the same as those of tomorrow.

damnant quod non intelligunt
YT2095
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this is how you make frog soup!

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
donlaszlow
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Hysteria is comes from fear,because some people don't know enough.... but stupidity should not be a motive to take away freedom
franklyn
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A clear and present danger

http://www.ajc.com/news/soldier-jailed-for-angry-272371.html

Here's a brain burning Hannibal Lector luncheon for you
How many sylables does it take to be arrested as a terrorist ?
Doesn't ganzta rap also constitute a credible threat ?

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MagicJigPipe
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The link to the article in the first post no longer works. Any chance you could find the article?

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
franklyn
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 Quote: Originally posted by MagicJigPipe The link to the article in the first post no longer works. Any chance you could find the article?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12458-can-a-government...

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JohnWW
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With regard to:
 Quote: Originally posted by franklyn (cut) In the imperial Japanese empire prior to it's capitulation at the end of the second world war , there existed a law enforcement organisation which was referred to as the thought police. They would arrest people on the pretext that they were thinking bad thoughts. Their function was primarily political repression and censure rather than any legitimate law enforcement function. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

and http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12458-can-a-government... :
I thought that it was George Orwell who invented the "Thought Police", in his "1984", published in 1948. They were intended to be an allusion to $ecret police forces, particularly the CIA, N$A, and the British MI5 and MI6 and GCHQ (copied in Au$tralia, New Zealand, Canada, and elsewhere), which by 1984 he predicted would have developed, at taxpayers' expen$e, the means of reading people's thoughts, in order to weed out dissidents and ensure the compliance of the people with Fa\$cist dogma in the future police state. However, if as you say, the Japanese invented them during the wartime Fascist régime there, prior to 1945, it could be that Orwell borrowed the idea from the Japanese.

[Edited on 2-2-10 by JohnWW]
hissingnoise
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I could be wrong but I thought that the idea of 'Thought Police' originated with the the 'fine men' of the Inquisition?
Early Catholicism, eh?

dann2
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Listen Chaps,

The 'Thought Police' originated in yon garden (can't remember the name) when that pair were argueing over the apple tree.

Dann2
franklyn
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@ JohnWW

The Japanese Special Higher Police ( Tokko ) ,
or Japanese Thought Police/Secret Police,
also known as the Kempai Tai.

Tortured captured allied soldiers as well as
civilians in occupied countries. Many of the
officer staff were convicted for commission
of attrocities by war crime tribunals and
later executed.

Jurisprudence

A classic "James Cagney" movie " Blood on the Sun " was
http://www.tcm.com/thismonth/article.jsp?cid=88572&mainA...

World War II US War Department indoctrination film
Part4 Know Your Enemy , ( see the second half of this )

________

@ hissingnoise

Practice established during the Pax Romana well before Christ.

.

[Edited on 3-2-2010 by franklyn]
un0me2
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Kind of violates the principles of law expounded by what was known then, and is still commonly regarded, as the greatest Bench of Common Law Jurists in history. It was stated in The Australian Communist Party & Ors v The Cth & Ors (1951) 83 CLR 1, 259 (Fullagar J), that:

It may be thought that herein lies an exception to an elementary rule of constitutional law which has been expressed metaphorically by saying that a stream cannot rise higher than its source. It was stated in Shrimpton v. The Commonwealth (1945) 69 CLR, per Dixon J, at pp 629, 630 in these terms:- "Finality, in the sense of complete freedom from legal control, is a quality which cannot be given under our Constitution to a discretion, if . . . it is capable of being exercised for purposes, or given an operation, which would or might go outside the power from which the law or regulation conferring the discretion derives its force." Cf. Dawson v. The Commonwealth (1946) 73 CLR, per Dixon J, at pp 181, 182 . The "discretion" may, of course, be the discretion of the legislature itself, exercised by the very fact of the enactment of a law. Or it may be the discretion of the Governor-General or a Minister, intended to be legally effective by the operation of an enacted law upon it. The validity of a law or of an administrative act done under a law cannot be made to depend on the opinion of the law-maker, or the person who is to do the act, that the law or the consequence of the act is within the constitutional power upon which the law in question itself depends for its validity. A power to make laws with respect to lighthouses does not authorize the making of a law with respect to anything which is, in the opinion of the law-maker, a lighthouse. A power to make a proclamation carrying legal consequences with respect to a lighthouse is one thing: a power to make a similar proclamation with respect to anything which in the opinion of the Governor-General is a lighthouse is another thing. Whether the rule exemplified by Lloyd v. Wallach (1915) 20 CLR 299 constitutes a real or only an apparent exception to the general rule is a matter which need not be considered here. It is enough to say that, on the one hand, it is established beyond all doubt, while, on the other hand, it has never yet been invoked except in connection with that secondary aspect of the defence power which has so far been regarded as depending upon a basic fact of emergency and ceasing when conditions created by the emergency have passed (R. v. Foster; Ex parte Rural Bank of New South Wales; Wagner v. Gall; Collins v. Hunter (1949) 79 CLR 43 ).

As the current laws are based, as the Communist Party Dissolution Act 1950 (Cth), which was deemed invalid, on the capacity for domestic terrorists to act contrary to the good of the Commonwealth of Australia, which was at war (well, involved in a UN led police-action - sound familiar?) at that time with Communism itself, (not just in terms of what was happening in Berlin/Korea, but apparently with the whole conceptual underpinning of Marxist philosophy) every bit as much as we are currently at war with something equally ephemeral (jihadist muslim extremism), I strongly doubt such laws would stand up to serious challenge. As to the position under American Jurisprudence, by a similarly esteemed Jurist, in United States v. Rabinowitz, 339 U.S. 56 (1950), 70 (Frankenfurter J - Dissenting Opinion):

It is a fair summary of history to say that the safeguards of liberty have frequently been forged in controversies involving not very nice people. And so, while we are concerned here with a shabby defrauder, we must deal with his case in the context of what are really the great themes expressed by the Fourth Amendment.

A disregard of the historic materials underlying the Amendment does not answer them. 1. It is true also of journeys in the law that the place you reach depends on the direction you are taking. And so, where one comes out on a case depends on where one goes in. It makes all the difference in the world whether one approaches the Fourth Amendment as the Court approached it in Boyd v. United States, 116 U.S. 616 , in Weeks v. United States, 232 U.S. 383 , in Silverthorne Lumber Co. v. United States, 251 U.S. 385 , in Gouled v. United States, 255 U.S. 298 , or one approaches it as a provision dealing with a formality. It makes all the difference in the world whether one recognizes the central fact about the Fourth Amendment, namely, that it was a safeguard against recurrence of abuses so deeply felt by the Colonies as to be one of the potent causes of the Revolution, or one thinks of it as merely a requirement for a piece of paper.

2. This is the Fourth Amendment:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

These words are not just a literary composition. They are not to be read as they might be read by a man who knows English but has no knowledge of the history that gave rise to the words. The clue to the meaning and [339 U.S. 56, 70] scope of the Fourth Amendment is John Adams' characterization of Otis' argument against search by the police that "American independence was then and there born." 10 Adams, Works 247. One cannot wrench "unreasonable searches" from the text and context and historic content of the Fourth Amendment. It was the answer of the Revolutionary statesmen to the evils of searches without warrants and searches with warrants unrestricted in scope. Both were deemed "unreasonable." Words must be read with the gloss of the experience of those who framed them.

Notice that Mr D. Hicks did not challenge such laws, I suspect it was suggested to him that he had the not-very hard choice of returning to Australia and serving a short sentence in an Australian jail without challenging the laws, or being returned to Afghanistan, where his incarceration would have been much shorter, but which as a member of the Taliban, under the new regime, would doubtless end with an early morning wakeup call from 12 armed men, equipped with a blindfold, some cord and perhaps a cigarette... That is what happens in Afghanistan, quite legally too.

[Edited on 3-2-2010 by un0me2]
VestriDeus
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The terrorists are called terrorists because they work to spread terror amongst their enemies; their goal is not necessarily to kill people, but to instill fear amongst people. And they have done exactly that. It doesnt matter whether or not they kill people, or if one attempt or not fails, but each time they do something (especially after 9/11), everyone goes into a state of fear and panic, and a lot of other measures are brought forward that both create more fear and inconvenience.

After every terrorist attempt, whether sucessful or not, security measures are ramped up, and makes everyone afraid to say, fly on planes, and inconveniences those who arent. In causing these changes, the terrorists have essentially already created fear, and without killing anyone. They've won without having to even hurt anyone, simply because the whole system is backed up, and moral damage, psychological damage, and economic damage is caused at a great magnitude. Killing people only increases the magnitude of that damage; regardless, they have caused damage nevertheless.
unome
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I was probably put out more by the "Swine Flu", in my recent travels around my Continent than by the "Anti-Terror" inspections... I am far more likely to be killed by a drink driver than a suicidal raghead, so I do what I want, when I want without regard for the impotent fools.

If only they had the brains of the Viet Cong and used the Journalists to win the war for them, instead they behead the people who seek to glorify them and give them their moment in the spotlight... How very, very ironic
franklyn
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Better to leave your Patek Philippe at home and wear flip flops.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/17/geoffrey-mcgann-arr...

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elementcollector1
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The terrorists won a looooong time ago, franky. They won right after 9/11/2001, when we were so terrified of them we'd agree to just about anything to "get rid of" or "stop" them.

Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Ge
jock88
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Flip flops have large heels that can be hollowed out.
You can stuff at least 100 grams of coke* in there.

Picture of the watch below.

*acola variety that is!

hissingnoise
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It could go something like this; "I am a 'performance artist' and this suicide-vest is an integral part of my 'art'" . . .

franklyn
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I opened this thread with the observation
" we have in fact transcended into psychosis "
this episode is yet another clinical example.

www.willitsnews.com/ci_22038994/rancho-palos-verdes-artists-...

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/11/16/oakland-airport-...

The account as stated in their own words by the police is characteristic of
individuals that are not in touch with reality.

" security officers found him wearing an unusual watch they said
could be used to make a timing device for a bomb
"

" airport security found him wearing a watch that
looked like a timing device for an explosive
"

" A bomb squad arrived within five minutes and determined
there were
no explosive materials in the watch "

" A bomb squad was called to the checkpoint and determined
there was
no explosive device connected to the watch "

" McGann was taken to Santa Rita Jail in Dublin where he was charged with
possessing materials to make an explosive device
"

" While no actual explosives were found, McGann was carrying
potentially dangerous materials
and appeared to have made alterations to his boots,
which were unusually large and stuffed with layers of insoles
"

" While no actual explosives were found, authorities said he was definitely
carrying potentially dangerous materials
and appeared to have made alterations to his boots "

" and he was very evasive on what he was doing "

If you have done nothing illegal , if in the course of being questioned what you
say is deemed to be deceitful you are then charged with the Felony of lying to
a federal officer. Given that , why would you even open your mouth ?
Here is the answer for that ( it's called the 5th amendment of the bill of rights )