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Author: Subject: *&$#ing hazmat fees.. a rant.
evil_lurker
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[*] posted on 18-12-2007 at 14:44
*&$#ing hazmat fees.. a rant.


I just bought 4 gallons of reagents (some peroxide, acids, and concentrated ammonia.

Total price under $85 dollars.

Fucking shipping + hazmat fees = $114!

Just where the hell does UPS get off charging such outrageous fees just for handling chemicals?

I swear I should start shipping chemicals for a living...

Ok, I about got it out of my system...

End of rant.

[Edited on 18-12-2007 by evil_lurker]




Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.
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MadHatter
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[*] posted on 18-12-2007 at 15:06
HAZMAT fees


How much was the HAZMAT fee ? Last time I got charged that one it was $20. And I
agree. It's totally outrageous !




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BromicAcid
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[*] posted on 18-12-2007 at 16:25


Problem is that you are giving yourself multiple hazmat fees!

Are you familiar with the DOT Hazmat classes 1-9?

Things of a single hazard class can be shipped together (most of the time) however you have class 8BI, 5.1/8, 8AI for starters, it really depends on the concentration of the peroxide. They were of course in separate boxes right?

Save money and buy your reagents in orders where things can be shipped together in the same box.

Hazmat fees are expensive but justly so, it's a dangerous business with a lot of idiots out there that can't pack a box correctly or follow the law. That's why most places have to have a person trained to get permission to ship with a specific shipping company. You have to go through a qualification process.

I myself am thankful that small quantities of hazmat can still be shipped with private carriers rather than being the playing field of the corporations where I would have to rent out a whole truck.




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contrived
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[*] posted on 18-12-2007 at 16:33


@Bromic yes that's good strategy, however:

"Hazmat fees are expensive but justly so, it's a dangerous business with a lot of idiots out there that can't pack a box correctly or follow the law. "

Not so! This is just more overregulation and post 911 silliness. The actual big spills I know of were "highly trained.." DOD specialists screwing up. It's a combination of cynical opportunism, like the cost of fuel, and overreaching paranoia. In trying to make a totally safe world we're controlled into suffication.
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pantone159
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[*] posted on 18-12-2007 at 18:53


My opinion, basically, is that I am so happy to be able to obtain the reagents that I can, so I am not really concerned about what it cost for shipping.

And it makes sense to me that chems, in general, cost more to ship than, say, books. If a package of say, a gallon of conc acid were to break and spill in the UPS truck, it would be a lot bigger issue than if some books fell out of their package. So the cost ought to be > 0.

And I am a cheap bastard, for the most part.

Not that there is no limit to what is reasonable, and $114 is a lot, and if there didn't seem to be any different packing than usual, it wouldn't seem right.
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BromicAcid
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[*] posted on 18-12-2007 at 19:07


I happen to have inside information in the field (holding a hazmat endorsement on my license and working in the hazardous waste business). Granted a lot of things now are shipped properly but that is due to the regulations that are supposed to be followed. A few years back I ordered some sodium off eBay, it came in a cardboard box, no hazmat labels, and all the oil had leaked out of it leaving the sodium with just a coating. In terms of historical precedence, hazmat shipments must have an 'up' arrow, this is because once upon a time someone decided to ship a few liters of concentrated nitric acid via air and because it was packed upside down it managed to leak and resulted in a fire that downed the plane. I've had talks with some of the companies that deal with the disposal as well telling me some of the things that they've gotten in the mail, samples of soon to be bulk lots. Broken bottles of bromine dumped into zip-lock baggies shipped in standard cardboard boxes. I could go on for some time, what I am trying to say is that the system works, packing regulations are there for a reason, and they have been that way since shortly after the implementation of 49 CFR, the only thing that has changed since 911 really on the end of the driver is you need to be finger printed before you can get your H endorsement.

It's not the big spills that are the concern here, there is a general risk associated with the shipment of hazmat that you are paying for, an improperly packaged bottle of acetic anhydride that manages to fall and shatter is going to give any postman a bad day.




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undead_alchemist
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[*] posted on 20-12-2007 at 12:58


If you think $20 UPS hazmat fee is bad, its $33 here in Canada. but we can get away with shipping limited quantity amounts, with no hazmant fee and no markings other then saying Limited quantity, even when going to the USA. Only ones that UPS won't ship over the border are 6.1 (toxic) unless it is a Limited quantity or explosive. There are a few other things as well. but it could be worse.
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chloric1
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[*] posted on 20-12-2007 at 18:51


@bromic-To put in perspective for you my first chemical order in my life was in October/November 1991. I bought 2 500ml bottles of concentrated nitric acid along with several metallic salts(Copper chloride, cadmium chloride, zinc chloride, and others). I paid $5 UPS hazmat charges!

Hard to say that $20 is justfied. The fuel costs where $1.47 per gallon in the USA in 2001 and I think there was a $20 charge then to. So 300% was the increase in 15 years. That averages to 20% for every singe year! Of coarse alot of those years saw no increase. Heaven forbid you are required to get a poison pack!:mad::(




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BromicAcid
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[*] posted on 20-12-2007 at 19:28


Forget the poison pack, use an all-pack box, it superceeds most DOT exemptions, if it fits, it doesn't even need a placard!

Another thing to consider though is the excessive amount of insurance these carriers have to have to carry hazmat. In upwards of $10,000,000 in some categories. It kind of reminds me of the ever-increasing doctor bills. Regardless, I still see $20 as a bargain to get hazmat to me, to get a specially licensed driver in a specially registered vehicle to make a special trip to my home to drop off something just for me? That's just awesome that it can still be done.




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Drunkguy
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[*] posted on 21-12-2007 at 03:46


Everyone knows hazmat fees are far in excess of what is reasonable.
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chloric1
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[*] posted on 21-12-2007 at 14:46


Bromic-I know you work in the field but I emphasize $5 in 1991. That was not that long ago. Combine that with the recent hikes in postal rates and UPS rates. It makes ebay difficult to do business in. I know I am trying and OK but I could be doing better. I am not selling hazmat chems on ebay I am selling mainly glassware I buy wholesale. But still even without hazmat I got overpriced logistics to deal with. Won't be long until this whole economy makes the toilet flushing sound anyways.:(

[Edited on 12/21/2007 by chloric1]




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