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evil_lurker
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biggrin.gif posted on 21-12-2007 at 05:07
Wine recommendations?


Ok so I'm looking to aquire some 4L jugs to store my bulk solvents in.

Those metal hardwares store cans do nothing but piss me off... the closures usually require a set of pliars to remove, and they tend to rust with all the humidity.

Jugs can be bought off the net all day long, but once shipping is factored in its just about cheaper to get them from the liquor store pre-filled, and then add the phenolic PTFE lined caps. :P

So what kind of wine should I get as a bonus? :D

Also, what type of closure size should I get? I'm assuming that they are the standard 38-400.




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MagicJigPipe
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[*] posted on 21-12-2007 at 09:23


I know they used to sell apple juice in these big 1gal glass jugs at the grocery store. It's doubtful that they still do but it's worth a try.

As far as wine goes, what kind do you like? Go buy that kind. Simple.

Sometimes I use Grolsch bottles (beer) to store things in. They lock airtight and they're 16oz (~.5L) each. I haven't tried yet but I bet if you put teflon sheet under the cap it could store bromine. They're great, a lot cheaper than new reagent bottles and sufficient for storage of many reagents.




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DerAlte
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[*] posted on 21-12-2007 at 23:34


Well, as wine goes jug wine is almost universally dreadful, but those jugs are certainly handy! Especially the reds are bad, barring Gallo's Hearty Burgundy, which sure as hell isn't burgundy but ain't bad. I'd say try the whires, so called riesllings etc. Or so called Chablis. It's years since I stooped that low, however, and California is rightly proud of its finer wines and maybe they don't allow these generic designations any more.

It is increasingly difficult to get glass containers as freebies ( well, almost) any more . Everyone seems to be going to nasty plastic rubbish. I use wine bottles myself. Since I drink higher on the hog than jug, the stopper is a problem for corrosive liquids. Good wines still use corks (I use the corks, too). Screw tops, even with a barrier of polyethylene under the cap, tend to corrode. If you have teflon sheet and can cut it accurately ( which I find difficult) then Jugs should do well enough. But I cannot guarantee the drinking part...

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Der Alte

[Edited on 21-12-2007 by DerAlte]
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evil_lurker
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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 01:04


Well your right about the jug wine being dreadful... I got a gallon of Carlo Rossi "Blush" table wine for $11.99.

I managed to chug about two 16oz cups of it, and it wasn't exactly the best I have ever had... a bit dry, watery, with a hint of sweetnes... typical table fare.

There has to go to be a better way to get glass jugs.

Anybody got a Macaroni Grill around? Its been a couple years since I been there, but they serve table wines out of jugs, might be a great source.

Unfortunately the nearest one is 120mi from me in any direction.




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not_important
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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 04:13


Might try distilling the wine with a simple still, it's not uncommon that a mediocre wine can be turned into a passable brandy.
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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 08:50


I don't know where you live, but in much of the world (most US states, for example) there is a sizable population of home winemakers, and retail stores to cater to them. I, for example, am making some dandelion wine using gallon jugs I bought from an establishment about 30 min from my home. Depending on the seller, you can also find useful chemicals, metabisulfite, for example.
Then again, I'm pretty sure my supermarket sells the apple juice in glass jugs too.
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evil_lurker
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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 09:48


I live in BFE country, its a semi dry county and plenty of bible thumpers to boot.

There ain't shit out here that is useful other than Ace hardware.

I guess I really need to head to memphis to pick up some reagents.




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chemrox
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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 10:42


call an environmental lab and tell them you're collecting water samples to test for hydrocarbons make sure they send you Liter bottles... very nice brown glass with teflon lined caps we just got a couple of boxes in ... cost? $0.00



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MagicJigPipe
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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 14:53


Interesting. I'm still surprised no one has said anything about the Grolsch bottles. I love them. I had 98% sulfuric acid stored in one and it tipped over exposing the bottom of the (HDPE? rubber?) cap to the acid for a few days and I noticed no corrosion.

Thanks for the idea Evil_Lurker, I'm about to call Macoroni Grill and ask about the glass jugs, there's one a few miles away.

Where do you live that Memphis would be a viable choice? I used to travel to Memphis for things like gun shows (not anymore, apparently now they care about interstate transportation of guns without FFL or some bullshit). It's only 2 hours from Little Rock so it's not too inconvienient. I might be willing to go there for chemicals if I found a decent supplier. However, nowadays Memphis isn't much better for stuff like that than Little Rock.




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evil_lurker
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[*] posted on 27-12-2007 at 12:26


Jackpot!

Went to an environmental lab today and scored an assload of reagent bottles.

They are contaminated with DCM, waste water, and H2SO4.

How would should they be cleaned so that they will be suitable for use with 35% hydrogen peroxide?




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[*] posted on 27-12-2007 at 13:12


DCM can be baked out, and H2SO4 can be washed out as needed (H2O2 is stable in acid, so that's not much of a problem). But what was in the waste water?

Tim




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evil_lurker
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[*] posted on 27-12-2007 at 13:38


Heck if I know what was in the waste water... I think it was effluent discharge where they were checking for epa compliance.

The thing I'm worried about is trace metals which may promote decomposition.

I've cleaned them up with Alcanox and rinsed with RO/DI water but I'm not for sure if my DI cartridge is spent or not since my TDS meter bit the dust.

I thought about doing maybe adding 1ml of concentrated HCL and letting soak for 24 hours followed by draining and evaporation in the oven to remove any metal ions and alkaline residue.

But I may just get some large amber opaque HDPE H2O2 bottles for a few bucks at the pharmacy and repack my gallon of 35% in those.




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[*] posted on 1-1-2008 at 21:09


Looks like your need for reagent bottles has been satisfied, evil lurker. Nice going! I've been distilling Carlo Rossi Burgundy (riiiiight) to give a passable brandy for use in making a liquer. The wine comes in a 4L bottle with a metal screw top. I'd trust them to hold some of the less volatile solvents, but no more without some slight modifications to the cap. They are nice to have, but yes, it takes a while to amass a substantial quantity. I don't drink much these days, so the wine's quality ($8.99 a bottle) is not an issue. I've also seen these in 3L bottles.



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[*] posted on 2-1-2008 at 20:08


Last year I took it upon myself to make some mead in honor of my viking heritage. One turned out well, and the other like viking foot sweat, but that is beside the point. I have a roomate who likes wine so it was a bit easier to drink the required 8L. I noticed anything from carlos rossi tasted like shit. There was another brand though, they made a half drinkable sangria. It might have been just sweet enough to cover up any of the terrible flavors often associated with the jugged wines. It might have been gallo, not sure exactly. The labels were washed off as well.
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evil_lurker
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[*] posted on 2-1-2008 at 21:22


Hopefully I won't have to drink any more nasty wine to get my reagent bottles... I figure if I can get a shelf or so full of them that will take care of most of my bulk storage needs.

I have found that labels come off easiest using hot water and a steel scrubbie. Also, if there is a marker used on the cap or bottle, that a little bit of DMSO on a q-tip will get it right off, and amazingly leave th plastic on the cap intact.

Here is what they look like:





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[*] posted on 2-1-2008 at 21:22


Gallon glass jugs of heat pasteurized apple juice are commonly available in my area for around $5-7. Pour off about a cup for yourself to drink. Add some yeast (I'm partial to Lalvin K1V-1116). Pop on an airlock. Wait. When its all fermented out I siphon off the hard cider into bottles leaving the pulp, dead yeast, some alive yeast, and some hard cider in the jug. Then I add priming tabs to the bottles and cap them and set them aside. Then I pour almost all the fluid out of another gallon glass jug of apple juice back into the fermenter with the pulp, dead yeast, etc. Pop the airlock back on. It then ferments much faster than the first batch due to the thriving yeast present. Seems to taste much better when its finished too. Plus I get an empty 1 gallon bottle. And many bottles of hard cider. I have gone through this cycle about 3 times in the past before I decided to move up to making it in bigger amounts in a 7 gallon food grade plastic bucket fermenter. I really need to find a cheaper source of heat pasteurized apple cider. :(

Anyways... My point is that if you are going to buy glass gallon jugs of apple cider... Might as well make hard cider from some of it.




So many ideas... too few dealing with chemistry.
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[*] posted on 2-1-2008 at 23:03


@evil_lurker - mouth watering display! Especially the liter of glacial acetic. I used to wonder why they called it glacial long ago when I had some when I was 16 or so. Then one winter it got so damned cold in our nice little lab we had a nice bottle of pearly crystals. The unmarked bottles intrigue - 98% H2S04?

@prole - distillation is the best treatment for Carlo Rossi! The only time I found it marginally acceptable was when our jon boat trolling motor broke down on the far side of the Indian River in Florida on a shrimping trip back in the 70's (when there were shrimp!). My friend tried some and spat it out. We had no paddle; it was 4AM. We had gotten maybe a dozen shrimp each instead of the trashcan full we hoped for. We had to push the boat, by swimming and wading, back across the river. So I designated him driver and I dried off and finished about a pint or so of the Rossi. Never touched it after that! Few men have ever tasted Carlo Rossi and also Chateaux Lafite- Rothshild and d'Yquem. Hell, I used to usually drink much higher on the hog then than I do today, with a dollar that was worth something...

@asilentbob - whatever you do, don't distill any hard cider! It's absolutely lethal. My late brother and I tried it in the late fifties. Cider contains congeners you will never hear of hardly, except on this forum. We also distilled fermented malt (passable white lighning) but grapes gave the best result with the least negative contaminants.

Sorry, all this should be in whimsy...

Der Alte
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[*] posted on 2-1-2008 at 23:27


Where would I find an environmental lab? Also, how would I go about finding one?



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[*] posted on 3-1-2008 at 00:28


You might want to do some looking around at army surplus, believe it or not. I found one selling 1L brown glass bottles with teflon-lined caps. They are also airtight. i know since I had left 15% H2O2 in one for several months without opening it and there was a nice hiss of oxygen escaping when I finally unscrewed the cap. All for the whopping price of $2.50 each...not exactly free but quality product. They appear to be identical to the bottles holding hydrochloric acid in the above picture.

My uncle crushes his own grapes to make wine, stores the skins over the winter to ferment, then distills them to make some wicked grappa. He usually adds fruit to it to make it more pleasant. Nobody in my family drinks much hard liquor anyway. I'm not sure about the proof, but it will take a flame as is.




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[*] posted on 3-1-2008 at 08:20


@DerAlte- Sorry the bottle is of nothing but plain old H2O... purpose is to use as a reference... measure out 946g, and you got 1 quart, then you can repack other bottles



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[*] posted on 3-1-2008 at 15:56


Quote:
Originally posted by DerAlte
@asilentbob - whatever you do, don't distill any hard cider! It's absolutely lethal. My late brother and I tried it in the late fifties. Cider contains congeners you will never hear of hardly, except on this forum. We also distilled fermented malt (passable white lighning) but grapes gave the best result with the least negative contaminants.

Sorry, all this should be in whimsy...

Der Alte



This isn't the reason your brother is late is it(I hope not)? What are the more notable congeners?




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[*] posted on 3-1-2008 at 19:17


Given it's apple, I'm sure acetaldehyde is big among them.

Tim




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DerAlte
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[*] posted on 3-1-2008 at 20:57


chloric1 said, quote

Quote:
This isn't the reason your brother is late is it(I hope not)? What are the more notable congeners?


The cider isn't but he died of liver failure. Go figure.

Re congeners,

@12AX7 - Right, Tim, that's #1 in all alcoholic beverages (and maybe acetic acid in poor ones). Acetaldehyde is particularly strong in sherry due to its manufacturing method. Furfural is another common congener.

As for cider, the answer is many!

The following is a quote from a web source - seaching will find many others:-

....A reliable HPLC method is described for determining aromatic and furanic congeners in cider brandies obtained from different kinds of cider (two technologies) and aged in American oak barrels. Except for 4-hydroxybenzaldehyde, the aging factor significantly influenced the concentration of benzoic acids, cinnamic acids, benzaldehydes, cinnamaldehydes, and furanoids, promoting an increase of these substances during aging; however, the technology factor only influenced the furfural content, a higher level of this furanic compound being detected when cider obtained from apple juice concentrate is employed for the making of spirits. The application of cluster and factor analyses allowed the classification of the distillates on the basis of the raw material and aging time....

Still want to distill your cider/Carlo Rossi?

Regards,

Der Alte
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DerAlte
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[*] posted on 3-1-2008 at 20:57


chloric1 said, quote

Quote:
This isn't the reason your brother is late is it(I hope not)? What are the more notable congeners?


The cider isn't but he died of liver failure. Go figure.

Re congeners,

@12AX7 - Right, Tim, that's #1 in all alcoholic beverages (and maybe acetic acid in poor ones). Acetaldehyde is particularly strong in sherry due to its manufacturing method. Furfural is another common congener.

As for cider, the answer is many!

The following is a quote from a web source - seaching will find many others:-

....A reliable HPLC method is described for determining aromatic and furanic congeners in cider brandies obtained from different kinds of cider (two technologies) and aged in American oak barrels. Except for 4-hydroxybenzaldehyde, the aging factor significantly influenced the concentration of benzoic acids, cinnamic acids, benzaldehydes, cinnamaldehydes, and furanoids, promoting an increase of these substances during aging; however, the technology factor only influenced the furfural content, a higher level of this furanic compound being detected when cider obtained from apple juice concentrate is employed for the making of spirits. The application of cluster and factor analyses allowed the classification of the distillates on the basis of the raw material and aging time....

Still want to distill your cider/Carlo Rossi?

Regards,

Der Alte
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