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Author: Subject: storing the acids and so
Jor
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storing the acids and so

Ok, I have bought the following:
1L Baker Analyzed Sulphuric acid 95-97%
1L Sulphuric acid 95-97%
2,5L hydrochloric 32% Baker Analyzed
1L acetone
1L nitric 65%
1L methanol
5L ethanol 91,4% denatured with methanol

Now I need to properly store these. I was thinking of teh following:
Sulphuric acid in normal temperatures 15-30 degrees ( you can't refrigerate it right? because it will break?)

In the refrigerater:
Hydrochloric acid (in garbage bag with some bicarbonate inside)
Acetone
Nitric acid (in garbage bag with some bicarbonate inside)
Methanol (freezer)

Ethanol (normal temperatures)

My main concern is teh nitric. Can it be stored in the same refrigerator as the acetone?
syntelman
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None of those chemicals need to be stored in a refridgirator or freezer, and having concentrated hydrochloric acid in the fridge will most likely only have a rather drastic detrimental effect on it's life length. Just store them in a well ventilated area at RT.
Jor
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Well, I want to store HCl in the fridge just to avaoid all the fumes, but I think 32% is not that bad.
However sometimes in the Netherlands temperatures reach >35 degrees C so that wont be that awesome for nitric (decomposition) and working with that warm methanol/hydrochloric acid is not really fun I think, because I dont want a pulmonary oedema from the HCl fumes and methanol vapors are said to be chronically toxic.
But Im not sure, therefore I'm asking to you guys. My place is not really well ventilated, And therefore I will do many experiments outside, but storing is another problem.
Phosphor-ing
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Like syntelman said, storing HCl in the fridge will only serve to shorten the life of the fridge. The HCl vapors will permeate anyway. If your worried about temperature then store them in a cooler like the ones you store beer in. Just put a little bicarbonate in the cooler too.

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chemrox
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Put them in what was once called a "pie cooler" well ventilated cabinet.

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woelen

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No need to worry about decomposing nitric acid. I have nitric acid 65%, stored in summer time, under a roof, where temps easily can reach 40 C. I already store the acid at that place for a few years, and I did not notice any decomposition at all. The fuming of conc. HNO3 (below azeotrope concentration) is not that strong.

Conc. HCl is another matter. In summertime, the bottle really is pressurized, like a bottle of coca cola. If I open it, a big plume of acrid fumes get out of the bottle. The only real good place of storage is in a very well ventilated room, which is kept dry also. Condensaton, humidity and conc. HCl form a bad combination, which is very harmful to everything nearby.

You could use a little fridge for storing it, but then you definitiely need to put it in a well-closed bag, and you need to put NaHCO3 in that bag as well. But as others already said, in due time, you will have nasty effects on the interior of your fridge. So, use an old second-hand one. Such things are not expensive at all.

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chloric1
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Oh yes 31%HCl can really fume alot in the summer especially right before a storm. Get some juicy humid air at 30 or 31°C and it looks like something from the movies.

In the theater of life its nice to know where the exit doors are located.
YT2095
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I dont know how your Sulphuric is stored, but if its in plastic transfer it to Glass.

I had some 98% I kept it stored in the original plastic bottle it came in, 4 months later (I dont use it often) there was a distinct Brown tinge to it!

I moved it into a Surfisil glass bottle, and its still perfectly fine 3 months later.

(yeah, that KNO3.com have a Lot to answer for in more ways than one!)

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MagicJigPipe
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Listen to this. A long time ago when I was just starting out with my interests in chemistry (yes, I was stupid, just listen) I decided to concentrate (boil) some battery acid. I boiled it down to around 95% (nearly 320C). At the time I didn't realize how hot H2SO4's boiling point is (and yes, IT WAS BOILING) so I decided to wait about 20 mins before I transfered it from the beaker. Well, I decided (since I didn't have a suitable glass container at the time) that the HDPE container that it came in would be the best thing to pour it into. I started to do so. Then, almost immediatly it started to buldge. I said, "Oh shit!" and tried to rush it over to the outside. Just as I picked it up it sprung a leak and started gushing out so I panicked and dropped it! Needless to say when it hit the ground it exploded and splashed HOT concentrated sulfuric acid EVERYWHERE. All over my pants, all over the floor of my garage, everywhere but on my skin (god, I was lucky). Afterwards my pants looked like they had taken point blank fire from an MP5K and everything made of wood was spot charred and the concrete was permanently stained. That's how I learned to respect sulfuric acid the hard way.

Another thing I learned is NEVER to store even cold concentrated H2SO4 in PETE. I will go right through in a week or so.

[Edited on 9-1-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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98% Sulfuric Acid can be stored in HDPE Bottles.
The 4L bottles of ACS grade I get come in HDPE.
In general I prefer to get in 2.5L glass bottles of acids.
MagicJigPipe
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I noticed that whenever I buy some Muriatic acid the container turns brown after a few months. I wonder why that happens and if it's the same thing that's happening to you 98% H2SO4.

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
chemkid
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I have always stored conc. sulfuric and 35% HCl just in my basement and never had a problem. I have opened the bottle to some fumes, but I just open a window. I don't seem to have leak problems with my bottles. Maybe i should wrap the HCl with Al foil to see if i am perhaps getting some leakage.

Chemkid

Jor
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I'm wondering if HCl fumes are really dangerous. Ofcourse they are very irritating, but do they really form a serious threat to my health?
For example can they, like NO2, cause a pulmonary edema?
Im not really concerned of gassen as I will do anything small scale and when I produce some nitrogen dioxide (wich is probably together with chlorine the most dangerous gas I will ever even make) for example I will just go inside and watch the reaction through a window. However that's not quite possible with the HCl as you can't open the bottle and go inside. Who's gonna get some HCl out then

[Edited on 10-1-2008 by Jor]
woelen

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HCl vapor at sufficiently high concentration is dangerous, but that concentration never will be reached when you store HCl in a certain room.

HCl vapor is toxic, not because of toxic properties of H(+) or Cl(-), but because of its corrosiveness, and so it only is toxic at high concentration.
E.g. NO2 is toxic, even below irritation levels. This makes it dangerous, even when you hardly notice it. NO2 is more insidious.

In general I do not worry about my health during experiments, in which a small amount of HCl vapor is released. I simply walk away from a room with too much HCl vapor in it and return to it after a few minutes. I do worry more about the materials in the room. Especially metal things and electronic equipment are very sensitive to HCl vapor.

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Jor
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Ok, not to worry too much then when I'm outside
kilowatt
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 Quote: Nitric acid (in garbage bag with some bicarbonate inside)

That's a very bad idea. Nitric acid will slowly react with most plastics, and diffuse through the less dense grades regardless. I wouldn't store any oxidizer, like nitric acid, in the same fridge as acetone (a very good fuel) either. I keep fuming nitric acid in a glass bottle with a teflon stopper and can't really recommend much else even for dilute acids. All the strong mineral acids will attack polycarbonate too for future reference.

[Edited on 10-1-2008 by kilowatt]

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Jor
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 Quote: Originally posted by YT2095 I dont know how your Sulphuric is stored, but if its in plastic transfer it to Glass. I had some 98% I kept it stored in the original plastic bottle it came in, 4 months later (I dont use it often) there was a distinct Brown tinge to it! I moved it into a Surfisil glass bottle, and its still perfectly fine 3 months later. (yeah, that KNO3.com have a Lot to answer for in more ways than one!)

I just recieved all the stuff.
My sulphuric acid came in a plastic bottle (ideally because that cannot break) today. However it is ordered from Fisher scientific so I really wonder if this bottle will slowly get eaten away. Should I move it to a gass bottle? I still have a empty bottle of Nitric Acid (glass) from JTBaker. I could wash it and put the sulphuric in there. However I cannot imagine Fisher paking its sulphuric wrong.
So what should I do?
SecretSquirrel
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I would leave it in original container, because if it is sold in plastic bottle, it means it can also be stored that way safely.
woelen

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I agree with SecretSquirrel. Fisher is a real chemical supply house and from such a company I expect that they will package the materials in a proper way.

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YT2095
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Fisher is a Totally different league to kno3.com!

one is Reputable, the other is .... well lets just say "NOT reputable", so much so they all got their stupid asses busted for doing Illegal shit!

and IMO, it serves them right, how Dare they sell me good acid in a crap bottle!

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The_Davster
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I have 2.5L(well about half that now..) in a plastic bottle from fischer that I purchased 5 years ago. It has stored just fine, and the acid is as clear as the day I received it.
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A little off topic,
Its also not just the packing. Its also the labels.
Here in Canada, the labels have to be in both English and French, plus have the WHIMIS info as well.

For acids, Heavy walled HDPE bottles hold up very well, not the cheap ones that places like kn03.com used.
Aqua_Fortis_100%
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IMHO , If one have no big amounts acids (except of course HF)and other general chemicals to store and have a good and undisturbed place , why bother in letting in plastic containers and guess if corrodes or no, if glass is a proved excellent material even back to fun alchemy age ?

My 98% sulfuric comes in original glass stoppered bottle and I will not remove that of the bottle.. Also because the bottle is very pretty..

Some OTC as weak (10%) muriatic acid comes in a plastic container (I dont know what is , because it's not press on label or bottom of the bottle, but I suspect that is HDPE) and I also just let in original container..

PETE is excellent material for all sorts of things , except basic compounds and oxidizing/cincentrated acids..
I usually store battery acid I get from old batteries (after I filter that to remove Pb compounds) and I have a perfectly unmodified PETE 2.5L full of it for over two years..

A bit curious, but I store also residual nitrating acids from early experiments in PETE for several months and also the bottle seems to be perfectly the same.. But I soon will remove that to avoid hazardous situations..

[Edited on 12-1-2008 by Aqua_Fortis_100%]

[Edited on 12-1-2008 by Aqua_Fortis_100%]

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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition » storing the acids and so Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum