Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  ..  57    59
Author: Subject: Latest chemical order?
Herr Haber
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1038
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 2-3-2022 at 07:48


2x 500ml Butyric acid repackaged from HDPE to 1L glass bottle.

The place stinks, I feel like going out for a walk...




The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Fery
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 702
Registered: 27-8-2019
Location: Czechoslovakia
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 2-3-2022 at 21:27


Trash away the old plastic bottles. I repackaged butyric acid from plastic to glass few years ago and put the bottle outside of house as I was curious how long it will last to lose the stinky smell... it lasted for few months for butyric acid and more than 1 year for valeric acid. Plastic is good for transport (glass is fragile) but for storage you did well with repackaging into glass. Storage of phenylacetic acid the same - very bad stinky scent in whole house when it was in original plastic container... problem disappeared when stored in glass.



If there is a heaven, it seems not to be materially based. Does chemistry exist there and if yes, how does it look like? Are there good souls well supplied with laboratory equipment, glass, chemicals and information?
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 7725
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 21-4-2022 at 01:00


I purchased material for making a good quantity of bromine very cheaply:
- 1 lb of KBrO3, see here: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/125184055068
- very cheap 48...49% HBr from here: https://www.laboratoriumdiscounter.nl/nl/waterstofbromide.ht...

Especially the latter is a really good price. I received my order with the HBr from laboratoriumdiscounter, and it is a high quality product. It is nearly colorless, which is quite unique for HBr. Usually, the stuff is yellow, piss-colored, but this only has a very weak yellow color.
I intend to carefully mix the KBrO3 and HBr, making Br2, without any other stuff in it (especially no chlorine, which may lead to BrCl-impurity). The Br2 then can easily be distilled off.

Making Br2 is very simple with this. I'll mix appr. 250 grams of KBrO3 with the liter of HBr, which will produce Br2 and leaves a slight excess of HBr in solution. The Br2 can be distilled off into a little concentrated H2SO4, which makes it dry. The Br2 then again is distilled off from the H2SO4, leaving pure and dry Br2. In this way, I will have appr. 700 grams of pure bromine, which is around 230 ml of bromine.

The liquid from which Br2 initially is distilled will have KBr (and a little HBr and probably also some remains of Br2, bound as Br3(-)). This liquid can be boiled down to drive off the last remains of HBr and Br2 and leave 170 to 180 grams of KBr behind, which also is useful.




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
ManyInterests
National Hazard
****




Posts: 405
Registered: 19-5-2019
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-4-2022 at 05:49


I've ordered potassium chloride (because I can't get any from sodium free salt lately), Resorcinol, and 28% ammonium hydroxide. While I do want to make my own ammonium hydroxide, I want some ready before I make my first synthesis.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 7725
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

thumbdown.gif posted on 13-5-2022 at 13:40


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
I purchased material for making a good quantity of bromine very cheaply:
- 1 lb of KBrO3, see here: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/125184055068
- very cheap 48...49% HBr from here: https://www.laboratoriumdiscounter.nl/nl/waterstofbromide.ht...

Warning: Do not buy the KBrO3 from that first seller. It is fake. It is not KBrO3. I think it simply is expensive KBr. It dissolves very easily in water and when a drop of aqueous HClO4 is added, you get a white precipitate (must be KClO4), and when a strong oxidizer is added to the acidified solution, then Br2 is produced. I asked either a refund, or a shipment of real KBrO3. The seller seems to be chinese. The object location is in Bulgaria, but probably the material is shipped from some warehouse, which is done more and more by chinese sellers.

The HBr from the second link is good stuff, that company definitely is trustworthy.

I get the impression that buying things from eBay has become more troublesome the last two years or so. I already buy from eBay from 2005 or so, many chemicals, and many electronics parts, but my last three purchases all were fake or crap (one crap electronic device, an ozonizer, which was totally bogus, crappy Cu(OH)2, which was anything but Cu(OH)2, and now this failure with KBrO3). All items were from chinese sellers, but in the past, I also purchased many things from chinese sellers and always had good, or at least decent experiences. But things have changed . . .

Edit(woelen): I was offered a refund by the seller, or a reshipping of another parcel. I chose a refund. After accepting the offer of a refund, I received it just a few hours later. So, at least the seller recognized the error and did his best to keep me happy.


[Edited on 14-5-22 by woelen]




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Texium
Administrator
********




Posts: 3808
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Online

Mood: Triturated

[*] posted on 13-5-2022 at 16:19


That's a bummer. I guess you could always go the oxidizer+sulfuric acid+KBr method if you're stuck with that stuff. I like to do that with hydrogen peroxide as the oxidizer since it's cheap (for me) and clean, though I know it's harder to get in Europe, so probably not a viable option for you.



Come check out the Official Sciencemadness Wiki
They're not really active right now, but here's my YouTube channel and my blog.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
SWIM
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 970
Registered: 3-9-2017
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-5-2022 at 17:51


It's really strange all the bogus Ebay products.
Don't know if other countries are different but here in the US a bad Ebay products can be returned within a certain time period with the seller forced to pay the shipping for return. (Or at least could a couple of years ago. I quit selling there because they kept changing their rules to my disadvantage)

This even happens with good products if the buyer insists they are bad. Sometimes the generous policy is used to screw the seller, but I found this to be very rare in my hundreds of ebay sales. Most people are honest, even if they're buying stuff I'm pretty sure is being used for illegal purposes. If anything the shady buyers were more honest.
Anyway, with this policy selling bogus products only pays off if the seller doesn't complain to Ebay before the time window for complaining is up. I find it surprising that this happens enough to pay off for the crooked seller.
Maybe the seller you bought from got screwed by his source? Testing your wares is problematic unless you're buying bulk (or very conscientious).
I myself wound up with egg on my face a few times when I sold second hand chemicals that must have been improperly stored and had deteriorated.
(Some protease inhibitors and a couple of items that can't tolerate California summers unless in a refrigerator at least.)

I tested what I could; but if it's a closed container you hate to open it for testing if opening it may lead to degradation or contamination.
I finally disposed of a number of valuable but 'iffy' used chems as I just couldn't stand the possibility that I might screw up somebody's reaction that they put a lot of effort and expense into because I was unknowingly peddling junk.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Keras
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 531
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-5-2022 at 00:42


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  

All items were from chinese sellers, but in the past, I also purchased many things from chinese sellers and always had good, or at least decent experiences. But things have changed . . .


IMHO, you just had a stroke of luck. I shun Chinese products like hell. And it’s getting worse with the Covid.

Laboratorium Discounter is great, though. They’re a bit—how to put it mildly—messy in their organisation: their lead times are usually way too optimistic, especially for compounds they don’t stock like phosphorus pentoxide, and I once ordered calcium hypochlorite and got sodium nitrate instead! :p—but they’re otherwise very fair priced and reliable.

As for making bromine, I’m surprised you don’t use a simpler method. I just tried KI + sodium percarbonate. For some reason, it didn't work. It must probably be carried out in an acidic solution. I’ll redo the experiment later. However, I substituted sodium percarbonate for Oxone, and it instantly oxidised I⁻ into solid I₂, so I think you can obtain Br₂ very neatly by dropping an Oxone solution into a KBr solution.

[Edited on 14-5-2022 by Keras]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Texium
Administrator
********




Posts: 3808
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Online

Mood: Triturated

[*] posted on 14-5-2022 at 07:40


Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
so I think you can obtain Br₂ very neatly by dropping an Oxone solution into a KBr solution.
I would expect so. It would be very similar to the sulfuric acid + hydrogen peroxide method.



Come check out the Official Sciencemadness Wiki
They're not really active right now, but here's my YouTube channel and my blog.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 7725
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 14-5-2022 at 10:06


I know other methods of making Br2, but with cheaply available HBr and cheaply available KBrO3 things get really easy. Of course, I can use other oxidizers, but first I'll see whether I get another shipment from that chinese seller (or get a refund).



The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Keras
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 531
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-5-2022 at 22:36


Quote: Originally posted by Texium  
Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
so I think you can obtain Br₂ very neatly by dropping an Oxone solution into a KBr solution.
I would expect so. It would be very similar to the sulfuric acid + hydrogen peroxide method.

Well, Oxone is basically a Caro’s acid salt, so yes, that’s the same.
Oxone is cheap too. I don’t remember how much I paid for it but it was quite low.

What I don’t understand is why sodium percarbonate didn’t work. I added a very few crystals of TsOH to the mix, and sure the brown colour appeared immediately, but then after a swirl or two the mixture became clear again. I’ll retry using citric acid to neutralise the sodium carbonate.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Keras
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 531
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 15-5-2022 at 00:29


Okay, so I redid the experiment with sodium percarbonate using citric acid. Dissolved a few milligrams of KI into 2 mL or so of water, added a few milligrams of citric acid. When everything had dissolved, added small portions of sodium percarbonate → solution became yellow then brown then with added KI a lot of I₂ crystals formed. So this procedure works with iodine, and probably with bromine too, provided you operate in acidic solution (strong acid not needed).


[Edited on 15-5-2022 by Keras]

IMG_1052.png - 2.1MB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Tsjerk
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2748
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mood

[*] posted on 15-5-2022 at 06:30


Doesn't citric acid react with iodine/bromine?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Keras
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 531
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 15-5-2022 at 07:14


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Doesn't citric acid react with iodine/bromine?


Apparently not? I didn't assay the crystals, though, but they seem to be perfect iodine at first sight.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Boffis
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1703
Registered: 1-5-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 15-5-2022 at 07:55


Quote: Originally posted by Keras  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Doesn't citric acid react with iodine/bromine?


Apparently not? I didn't assay the crystals, though, but they seem to be perfect iodine at first sight.


Oh yes it does, the product is pentabromoacetone which is produced almost quantitatively and is used as a means of analysis for citric acid. I have some papers somewhere on the reaction if you are interested.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Keras
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 531
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 15-5-2022 at 08:08


Quote: Originally posted by Boffis  

Oh yes it does, the product is pentabromoacetone which is produced almost quantitatively and is used as a means of analysis for citric acid. I have some papers somewhere on the reaction if you are interested.


Yes, please :)
This document (p.3, first §) suggests otherwise, though.

[Edited on 15-5-2022 by Keras]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 7725
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 13-6-2022 at 11:11


I purchased 1 liter of 30% NaClO3 (pure, no NaCl in the mix, just water). This is within the EU-rules and sale of such solutions is allowed. I intend to try making concentrated solution of NaClO4 with this. I have a PbO2 electrode and do not want to spend that on making NaClO3 from NaCl (this corrodes the anode more than I like) and with this NaClO3-offer I just can buy this liquid, stick in the electrode and make NaClO4. The solution of NaClO4 then can be mixed with conc. HCl to make quite pure HClO4 (at least good enough for experiments in making salts of transition metal complexes). It's good to see that there are suppliers who are willing to sell stuff like NaClO3 to private individuals in such a way that it is inside the EU-regulations and on the other hand is easy to purify and to use in experiments.



The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Herr Haber
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1038
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 13-6-2022 at 11:54


Quote: Originally posted by Keras  


Laboratorium Discounter is great, though. They’re a bit—how to put it mildly—messy in their organisation: their lead times are usually way too optimistic, especially for compounds they don’t stock like phosphorus pentoxide, and I once ordered calcium hypochlorite and got sodium nitrate instead! :p—but they’re otherwise very fair priced and reliable.



I placed an order on the first of June having that in mind and called them to say hello today as the order was supposed to be dispatched in 3-4 days.
Apparently it's going out tomorrow so I can confirm what you said in a very polite way. They are a bit messy :)
Joke aside, they seem to have several warehouses. The chemicals were not the problem but the glassware they had at another place.

I'm surprised I had to go out of my country to find pre-made ampoules but I cant wait for them to arrive. There are so many things I'd like to weight and seal in ampoules for display or for pre-weighting compounds / reagents. This totally outweighted the cost of the ampoules.




The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  ..  57    59

  Go To Top