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Author: Subject: FBI Call: Need to Vent
DrP
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[*] posted on 24-10-2018 at 02:14


Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  
Quote:

I do not feel like I live in a free country anymore


Well it was about time because the USA was never a free country.

You live in a police state. Think about that.

[Edited on 24-10-2018 by learningChem]


Surely it is better to have stuff like this checked by the authorities? They spot you have the means to make explosives - they call, check and realise that you are not making explosive but just a chemistry enthusiast and move on. It is good to know these things are being checked so that people that actually ARE thinking of making explosives for terrorists have less chance of being successful due to the checks put in place.

Maybe I am being naieve or a bit gullible - but surely police checks on such things have to be a good thing. You should embrace their visits and wotrk with them and educate them as to what and why you do your things - even offer help and advice to them if they need info regarding other 'busts' or investigations they are planning.... if you act all rebellious and cynical with them they will be more likely to suspect that your intentions aren't right.

If your intentions AREN'T right - then go FBI! They need to catch people who are wanting to make stuff for ill purposes..... lol although, as you can walk into a store and buy an automatic rifle in some states with no ID or background checks I would think a few grams of explosive made by some kid in his garage would be irrelevant. lol.





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Herr Haber
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[*] posted on 24-10-2018 at 03:51


Quote: Originally posted by Texium (zts16)  
Really sorry about the misunderstanding.


It happens, water through the condenser. English is not my first language and I know I'm sometimes misunderstood ;)

Hardware store in EU are definitely different.
I havent seen H2SO4 in a store for a long long time. You can probably get the 20 or 37% electrolyte in motor shops though.
NaOH prills ? Gone from all the major retailers. Dont ask them if they have Toluene. Everybody seems to think it's forbidden (it's not). Pool supplies is a very sad section.
For OTC chemicals like TCCA Amazon is a better option.

You can still find what you need from specialized shop (art supplies shops have so much more than just pigments!).

But yeah, until a few years ago you could find your DIY TATP kit on the same shelf (or maybe the one below).
I have a particularly strong bias against this EM because of this.

But that's not all that bad. You'd have cringed at what I saw in Spain 30 years ago.
Ammonia and Nitric acid sitting on the same shelf, labels barely readable through the growing mass of cristals.
But that was 30 years ago when you could still get potassium chlorate as a medicine for the throat :)
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macckone
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[*] posted on 24-10-2018 at 04:39


Mr. Rogers:
The same violation in a business is treated much more severely in an apartment complex.
Often these laws have a range of punishment and can be treated as misdemeanor or felony.
As for storage, ACS grade is considered to have glass necessary for purity. Also a plastic coated bottle is treated differently. Items are often shipped in improper packaging because no one checks.
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learningChem
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[*] posted on 30-10-2018 at 10:22


Quote:
Surely it is better to have stuff like this checked by the authorities?


No it isn't

Quote:
people that actually ARE thinking of making explosives for terrorists


You mean thought criminals? Maybe you'd want your masters to read every thought every person has? They are working on it.

Quote:

Maybe I am being naieve or a bit gullible


more than a bit
Quote:
but surely police checks on such things have to be a good thing.

But they aren't.

Quote:
You should embrace their visits


Why should you embrace the violation of your fundamental rights?


Quote:
although, as you can walk into a store and buy an automatic rifle in some states with no ID or background checks I would think a few grams of explosive made by some kid in his garage would be irrelevant. lol.


Right. So that's one counterargument for your "embrace the police state" position. There are a lot more.



[Edited on 30-10-2018 by learningChem]
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[*] posted on 30-10-2018 at 10:38


Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
But yeah, until a few years ago you could find your DIY TATP kit on the same shelf (or maybe the one below).
I have a particularly strong bias against this EM because of this.
What?! No wonder H2O2 is so fricking hard to find these days. Those who made these kits are fricking definitely agent provocateurs that made governments ban/restrict H2O2!!!:mad:



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[*] posted on 30-10-2018 at 12:04


I suspect it was family trying to shake some sense into you.
You have posted attempting a bunch of crap synths that imply that you are looking beyond the line.
Just my thoughts, always look in the mirror first.
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[*] posted on 30-10-2018 at 18:28


@learningChem: Maybe sometime try to actually construct a refutation instead of a string of dismissive one-liners and misused Orwellian phrases.



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VSEPR_VOID
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[*] posted on 30-10-2018 at 19:14


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
although, as you can walk into a store and buy an automatic rifle in some states with no ID or background checks I would think a few grams of explosive made by some kid in his garage would be irrelevant. lol.



I dont know here you heard that. Automatic weapons (that means firing multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger) require federal permits and background checks. There is no way you can just buy some. They are class III fire arms (machine guns). There are no states where you can just buy a firearm without any sort of paperwork, unless in some states if it is a gift.




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Herr Haber
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[*] posted on 31-10-2018 at 04:00


@Fusso: it was a figure of speech.
Putting all reagents on the same shelf seemed to be... criminal.
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DrP
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[*] posted on 31-10-2018 at 04:17


Quote: Originally posted by VSEPR_VOID  
Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
although, as you can walk into a store and buy an automatic rifle in some states with no ID or background checks I would think a few grams of explosive made by some kid in his garage would be irrelevant. lol.



I dont know here you heard that. Automatic weapons (that means firing multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger) require federal permits and background checks. There is no way you can just buy some. They are class III fire arms (machine guns). There are no states where you can just buy a firearm without any sort of paperwork, unless in some states if it is a gift.


Sorry - my mistake - I mean firearms in general - I thought you could just buy a hand gun, a revolver or something, in a shop with out ID in some places.


My original point though was that it was a good idea for the authorities to check on things due to the reality that some people do want to make explosives to do harm to others in society... if you have nothing to hide then help them out as best as you can - offer to help on other cases so they can tell the difference between someone like you, who is legally experimenting with stuff and someone who just wants to blow shit up and eventually make a bomb to use in a terrorist situation. If you ain't doing that then help them out... if you ARE doing that then I hope they catch you before you kill anyone. ;-)


Regards,

P.





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[*] posted on 31-10-2018 at 05:25


Those who support crimializing thought crimes, preventive detention, "nothing to hide" theory, cops infringing human rights & privacy, and/or police/nanny state govs are libtards and shouldn't exist. Period.



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[*] posted on 31-10-2018 at 05:55


Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  
Quote:
Surely it is better to have stuff like this checked by the authorities?


No it isn't

Quote:
people that actually ARE thinking of making explosives for terrorists


You mean thought criminals? Maybe you'd want your masters to read every thought every person has? They are working on it.

Quote:

Maybe I am being naieve or a bit gullible


more than a bit
Quote:
but surely police checks on such things have to be a good thing.

But they aren't.

Quote:
You should embrace their visits


Why should you embrace the violation of your fundamental rights?


Quote:
although, as you can walk into a store and buy an automatic rifle in some states with no ID or background checks I would think a few grams of explosive made by some kid in his garage would be irrelevant. lol.


Right. So that's one counterargument for your "embrace the police state" position. There are a lot more.



[Edited on 30-10-2018 by learningChem]




I'm not talking about thought crime... what is your problem? People actually DO make explosives to kill others with. This is illegal for good reason. Investigations and laws banning dangerous substances are there to try to prevent this sort of thing from happening. How else are they going to catch these people that are planning to bomb others? I say help them out - after all we all want people that are going to place a bomb somewhere in society caught no? If you help them then they might start to differentiate between hobbyists and people with ill intent... if you start getting all defensive and defiant then it makes you look a lot more guilty than you are.

How is it a 'fundamental right' to be able to make explosives at home anyway? You DO want these people caught and locked up. You DON'T want to get locked up yourself because of the ignorance of the authorities.... thus my suggestion of helping/educating them. The ignorance of the police is a different issue if they want to lock you up for being a hobbyist then imo that is wrong.... if they want to investigate you because of genuine concerns then why not?

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Those who support crimializing thought crimes, preventive detention, "nothing to hide" theory, cops infringing human rights & privacy, and/or police/nanny state govs are libtards and shouldn't exist. Period.



Police checks on people suspected of making explosives is not a nanny state. People DO make bombs for ill intent. How are they to catch such people if they don't investigate?






[Edited on 31-10-2018 by DrP]




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[*] posted on 31-10-2018 at 10:51


Please simmer down mates-----these kind of threads can get ugly fast, as most of us have fairly polarized beliefs in right/wrong and what the authorities SHOULD be able/not able to do.

Arkoma

*EDIT* VESPR was just venting about his experience, and now this thread is getting political. That never ever ever turns out well here. Thank You

[Edited on 10-31-2018 by arkoma]




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[*] posted on 31-10-2018 at 21:36


I will add to arkoma's comment that interaction with the police is very regional-specific and is highly dependent on the culture and particular police policies and practices.

Around here it seems the best approach seems to be welcoming and cooperative. I don't think that is always the case in the US.
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[*] posted on 1-11-2018 at 04:11


For people outside the US -

There are federal firearms regulations and states and localities can further regulate them. You can certainly buy an automatic weapon in a "store", but the TL;DR is they sell for very high prices (think E-Class Mercedes) and are very heavily regulated. There's a finite supply of weapons in this class that are available to purchase due to cut-off dates that grandfathered certain automatic weapons. That's an oversimplification of some very complex laws but I think that conveys the gist of the issue.

An AR-15 style rifle commonly available in the civilian market is not an automatic weapon or a machine gun.

The media has some big hangup with this and just can't get the terminology correct. Anything that doesn't have wood in it's construction and uses a magazine is "machine gun". Facts don't seem to apply to reporting on gun issues here.

[Edited on 1-11-2018 by Mr. Rogers]
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[*] posted on 9-11-2018 at 23:45


Quote:
Maybe sometime try to actually construct a refutation instead of a string of dismissive one-liners and misused Orwellian phrases.



My comments are flawless. I'm sorry if you are desperate to ignore the fact that you live in a orwellian police state.

Quote:
How is it a 'fundamental right' to be able to make explosives at home anyway?


It is an application of the fundamental rights to liberty and property. To do with your time and property as you wish. I hope I helped you understand how your most basic rights work. You're welcome.





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Herr Haber
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[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 05:10


What comes over first when distilling posts:

Ego or passive-agressiveness ?
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[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 05:56


Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
What comes over first when distilling posts:

Ego or passive-agressiveness ?

I think it is an azeotrope of the two. And one that can be hard to break. :P
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DrP
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[*] posted on 14-11-2018 at 08:12


Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  

Quote:
How is it a 'fundamental right' to be able to make explosives at home anyway?


It is an application of the fundamental rights to liberty and property. To do with your time and property as you wish. I hope I helped you understand how your most basic rights work. You're welcome.






I am pretty sure it isn't a fundamental right to be able to build a bomb at home. Unless you consider it a fundamental right to be allowed to break the law.




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[*] posted on 14-11-2018 at 08:15


Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  

Quote:
How is it a 'fundamental right' to be able to make explosives at home anyway?


It is an application of the fundamental rights to liberty and property. To do with your time and property as you wish. I hope I helped you understand how your most basic rights work. You're welcome.






I am pretty sure it isn't a fundamental right to be able to build a bomb at home. Unless you consider it a fundamental right to be allowed to break the law.
Ok– let's not do this again, please.

[Edited on 11-14-2018 by Texium (zts16)]




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DrP
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[*] posted on 14-11-2018 at 08:37


Quote: Originally posted by Texium (zts16)  
Ok– let's not do this again, please.




I agree - I wanted to make the point though. I don't really want to spend 1 whole page discussing it and defending it - it isn't legal to build bombs as far as I'm aware in the USA and I would therefore argue that no-one has any 'right' to under the law. The other discussion was more to do with the other guy using a different definition of the word 'right' to what I know and use.

If you think I am wrong Tex then delete this or move it to the other thread in detritus- I would be surprised though - Clearly you do not have the 'right' to build a bomb in your house in the USA and if you get caught doing so I would expect that the penalty is quite severe. I wouldn't know. I just didn't want to leave that statement unchallenged. Regardless of what people 'feel' should be a right or not - it isn't a right as far as I know. I stand to be corrected.


Edit by moderator : Fixed broken quote

[Edited on 11-14-2018 by gdflp]




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[*] posted on 14-11-2018 at 09:32


You cannot build a bomb, but depending on your locality and/or what licenses you have, you can make fireworks and explosives. I am pretty sure a bomb denotes an explosive device designed to cause harm to others. Also, how did this thread turn into a gigantic debate about rights and what you can or cannot do? Im relatively here and I dont want other new members to be pushed away by these kinds of arguments.
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[*] posted on 14-11-2018 at 17:49


It is perfectly legal to build a bomb on private property in most of the U.S. Of course, most of the U.S. lies outside of major metropolitan areas and their bothersome zoning codes, fire regulations, definitions of criminal mischief, and so forth.





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[*] posted on 15-11-2018 at 01:56


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
It is perfectly legal to build a bomb on private property in most of the U.S.


Cool - so you DO have the right to build a bomb then.... Presumably then there are no worries about having explosive precursors in your house when the police come then as they are perfectly legal - no problem.




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[*] posted on 15-11-2018 at 04:16


The ATF considers a bomb to be a "destructive device" no matter where in the US you are. This would require licensing to do legally - ie. a munitions manufacturer.

We should probably be more precise in the terminology here. A "bomb" is a munition dropped from an aircraft. A "pipe bomb", "mail bomb", etc. are Improvised Explosive Devices (IED).
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