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Author: Subject: FBI Call: Need to Vent
JJay
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"Persons who manufacture explosives for their personal, non-business use (e.g., making fireworks to set off on your own property or mixing binary explosive components to remove a stump in your own yard) are not required to have a manufacturer’s license. However, no person may ship, transport, cause to be transported, or receive explosive materials unless such person holds a license or permit."

https://www.atf.gov/explosives

Herr Haber
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Could you guys be kind enought to yourselves and your hobby by using the apropriate words as Jackson pointed out ?

At the beginning there was no mention of a bomb.
Making a bomb and making explosives are two different things.

I'll always be against the first one because building a bomb means you intent to hurt someone or their property.
Explosives on the other hand have many other more interesting uses.
Mr. Rogers
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 Quote: Originally posted by JJay "Persons who manufacture explosives for their personal, non-business use (e.g., making fireworks to set off on your own property or mixing binary explosive components to remove a stump in your own yard) are not required to have a manufacturer’s license. However, no person may ship, transport, cause to be transported, or receive explosive materials unless such person holds a license or permit." https://www.atf.gov/explosives

Fireworks aren't bombs and neither does something explosive need to be a bomb.
JJay
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The problem is not whether such and such explosive device is a bomb or not. It's a bomb.

Mr. Rogers
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 Quote: Originally posted by JJay The problem is not whether such and such explosive device is a bomb or not. It's a bomb.

Not according to the law.
JJay
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Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers
 Quote: Originally posted by JJay "Persons who manufacture explosives for their personal, non-business use (e.g., making fireworks to set off on your own property or mixing binary explosive components to remove a stump in your own yard) are not required to have a manufacturer’s license. However, no person may ship, transport, cause to be transported, or receive explosive materials unless such person holds a license or permit." https://www.atf.gov/explosives

Fireworks aren't bombs and neither does something explosive need to be a bomb.

Simply wrong. Fireworks are bombs.

JJay
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Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers
 Quote: Originally posted by JJay The problem is not whether such and such explosive device is a bomb or not. It's a bomb.

Not according to the law.

You are going to have to cite a law to make statements like that.

macckone
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There are also regulations around storage of explosives. This is where the ATF usually gets people. Improper storage is a serious felony. Explosives may not be stored or manufactured in a residence in the majority of cases. There are set backs from roads and inhabited buildings that apply as well. You don't need a license to manufacture provided the explosives will be used immediately on-site. Many of the safety regulations still apply. And as mr Rogers pointed out a destructive device is not allowed. And that includes putting it in a glass or plastic container if such container would produce shrapnel. Yes. Simply storing explosives in an incorrect container is considered making an destructive device.
OldNubbins
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 Quote: Originally posted by JJay The problem is not whether such and such explosive device is a bomb or not. It's a bomb.

I agree. It is too broad of a term.

gay bomb, bath bomb, stink bomb, flour bomb, bug bomb, and the ubiquitous F-Bomb
JJay
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If you explain to the jury that you were just mining gravel in the back 40, someone is probably going to refuse to find you guilty. If you are duct taping ball bearings to a bomb, I don't think they are going to let that slide.

monolithic
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VSEPR_VOID, can you tell us where you bought the acetone and peroxide from, so we know to never order from them?

[Edited on 24-11-2018 by monolithic]
macckone
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a bomb is too broad a term.

a destructive device is anything that will produce potentially lethal shrapnel.
fireworks are not destructive devices as the paper won't produce shrapnel.
raw explosives aren't destructive devices without a means of ignition and something to create shrapnel.

but you can't transport or sell explosives without a license.
nor can you store explosives without following a load of regulations.
you can't manufacture explosives in a certain distance from a residence or roadway.

IF you are going to indulge in making explosives, do so responsibly and follow the rules.
VSEPR_VOID
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andy1988
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 Quote: Originally posted by macckone Note specifically that picric acid is considered an explosive in the US rather wet or not unless you can prove it is for other uses.

@#$! Here I am, planning my first use of the spectrophotometer I bought (Spectronic 20). Planning heavy metals testing samples out of curiosity... Jaffe reaction to measure creatine (creatinine?). Picric acid scarce on US ebay... so thought I would check here for better sources. What a chore. Anyways, thanks for the explanation everyone, I wasn't aware. EDIT: Wait, it says "Picric acid (manufactured as an explosive)." in that ATF document. I'd expect it in bulk solid form to be considered explosive. But a wet form in small bottle useful for things like the Jaffe reaction should maybe not be considered manufactured as an explosive? IDK. [Edited on 16-1-2019 by andy1988] VSEPR_VOID International Hazard Posts: 719 Registered: 1-9-2017 Member Is Offline Mood: Fullerenes The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Where is my McNuke? Within cells interlinked Within cells interlinked Within cells interlinked Velzee National Hazard Posts: 379 Registered: 19-8-2015 Location: New York Member Is Offline Mood: Taking it easy This is ridiculous. The FBI has been going after everyone, I guess. Gives me pure anxiety just whenever someone even just mentions the time they came to my apartment. Although, I was one reckless kid. Check out the ScienceMadness Wiki: http://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Main_Page "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." —Arthur Schopenhauer "¡Vivá Cristo Rey!" —Saint José Sánchez del Río Texium Administrator Posts: 3957 Registered: 11-1-2014 Location: Salt Lake City Member Is Online Mood: Triturated Quote: Originally posted by andy1988  Quote: Originally posted by macckone Note specifically that picric acid is considered an explosive in the US rather wet or not unless you can prove it is for other uses. @#$!

Here I am, planning my first use of the spectrophotometer I bought (Spectronic 20). Planning heavy metals testing samples out of curiosity... Jaffe reaction to measure creatine (creatinine?). Picric acid scarce on US ebay... so thought I would check here for better sources.

What a chore. Anyways, thanks for the explanation everyone, I wasn't aware.

EDIT: Wait, it says "Picric acid (manufactured as an explosive)." in that ATF document. I'd expect it in bulk solid form to be considered explosive. But a wet form in small bottle useful for things like the Jaffe reaction should maybe not be considered manufactured as an explosive? IDK.

[Edited on 16-1-2019 by andy1988]
I think that you can rest easy due to the fact that you have a spectrophotometer and can provide a detailed explanation of what you want to use it for. The law has to contain that flexibility for some reason. Your setup and explanation, along with the small amount and safe storage, should serve as proof beyond any doubt, if you should even run into trouble in the first place.

Come check out the Official Sciencemadness Wiki
They're not really active right now, but here's my YouTube channel and my blog.
Mr. Rogers
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A "bomb" is a munition that is dropped from an aircraft and carried to it's target by means of gravity. "Bomb" isn't any term that appears anywhere in US code to refer to fireworks.

"Little Boy" was a bomb, an LGM-30 is a missile, etc, and fireworks are fireworks.
Antiswat
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incorrect. a b*mb is an explosive device put together with the intent of destroying personnel of structure. it doesnt specify whether its a composition of single explosive chemical, low or high explosive - its all about the intent

if you deal with chemistry in the wet, live in paranoia and act on it. dont take chances, leave as little fingerprints as possible, stay off the radar. you cant convince them even if you have 200 different chemicals that you simply fancy collecting chemicals
even if they do show up at your door, even after all the demonization that always will follow with legal action or automatic weapons outside your door, they will still at minor notice show up again "just in case"
theyre not gonna put less focus on chemistry. its only going to get worse

~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
Sturge11
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Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers
 Quote: Originally posted by macckone I was once threatend with 10 years in jail over a glass bottle of acetone.

Can you elaborate on this? I've heard about the "acetone in a glass bottle" thing before but I don't understand what this is about.

I believe that the acetone is a glass bottle bit is one of the hang ups referred to above. Obviously if you have acetone in a glass bottle, no big deal right? Well according to the letter of the law if you are in possession of a chemical classified as flammable you have to store it in a very particular way, clearly labelled as flammable. Without the proper storage and label you are violating the law and are susceptible to being punished. What he is referring to is his relatively minute disregard to the detail of the storage law resulting in a threat to his well being by law enforcement. I hope that clears this up for you.
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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Non-chemistry » Legal and Societal Issues » FBI Call: Need to Vent Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues