Difference between revisions of "Lead"

From Sciencemadness Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
(13 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown)
Line 19: Line 19:
 
|alt names=
 
|alt names=
 
|allotropes=
 
|allotropes=
|appearance=
+
|appearance=Metallic gray
 
<!-- Periodic table -->
 
<!-- Periodic table -->
 
|above=[[Tin|Sn]]
 
|above=[[Tin|Sn]]
|below=[[Flerovium|Fl]]
+
|below=Fl
|left=[[thallium]]
+
|left=[[Thallium]]
|right=[[bismuth]]
+
|right=[[Bismuth]]
 
|number=82
 
|number=82
|atomic mass=207.2
+
|atomic mass=207.2(1)
 
|atomic mass 2=
 
|atomic mass 2=
 
|atomic mass ref=
 
|atomic mass ref=
Line 36: Line 36:
 
|group=14
 
|group=14
 
|group ref=
 
|group ref=
|group comment=
+
|group comment=(carbon group)
 
|period=6
 
|period=6
 
|period ref=
 
|period ref=
Line 46: Line 46:
 
|electron configuration ref=
 
|electron configuration ref=
 
|electron configuration comment=
 
|electron configuration comment=
|electrons per shell=
+
|electrons per shell=2, 8, 18, 32, 18, 4
 
|electrons per shell ref=
 
|electrons per shell ref=
 
|electrons per shell comment=
 
|electrons per shell comment=
 
<!-- Physical properties -->
 
<!-- Physical properties -->
 
|physical properties comment=
 
|physical properties comment=
|color=
+
|color=Metallic gray
|phase=solid
+
|phase=Solid
 
|phase ref=
 
|phase ref=
 
|phase comment=
 
|phase comment=
|melting point K=
+
|melting point K=600.61
 
|melting point C=327.46
 
|melting point C=327.46
|melting point F=
+
|melting point F=621.43
 
|melting point ref=
 
|melting point ref=
 
|melting point comment=
 
|melting point comment=
|boiling point K=
+
|boiling point K=2022
 
|boiling point C=1749
 
|boiling point C=1749
|boiling point F=
+
|boiling point F=3180
 
|boiling point ref=
 
|boiling point ref=
 
|boiling point comment=
 
|boiling point comment=
Line 113: Line 113:
 
|heat vaporization ref=
 
|heat vaporization ref=
 
|heat vaporization comment=
 
|heat vaporization comment=
|heat capacity=26.650
+
|heat capacity=26.65
 
|heat capacity ref=
 
|heat capacity ref=
 
|heat capacity comment=
 
|heat capacity comment=
Line 137: Line 137:
 
<!-- Atomic properties -->
 
<!-- Atomic properties -->
 
|atomic properties comment=
 
|atomic properties comment=
|oxidation states=4, 3, 2, 1
+
|oxidation states='''4''', 3, '''2''', 1
 
|oxidation states ref=
 
|oxidation states ref=
 
|oxidation states comment=(2 and 4 are most common)
 
|oxidation states comment=(2 and 4 are most common)
|electronegativity=1.87
+
|electronegativity=1.87 (+2)
 
|electronegativity ref=
 
|electronegativity ref=
 
|electronegativity comment=
 
|electronegativity comment=
Line 155: Line 155:
 
|ionization energy ref=
 
|ionization energy ref=
 
|ionization energy comment=
 
|ionization energy comment=
|atomic radius=
+
|atomic radius=175
 
|atomic radius ref=
 
|atomic radius ref=
 
|atomic radius comment=
 
|atomic radius comment=
Line 161: Line 161:
 
|atomic radius calculated ref=
 
|atomic radius calculated ref=
 
|atomic radius calculated comment=
 
|atomic radius calculated comment=
|covalent radius=
+
|covalent radius=146±5
 
|covalent radius ref=
 
|covalent radius ref=
 
|covalent radius comment=
 
|covalent radius comment=
|Van der Waals radius=
+
|Van der Waals radius=202
 
|Van der Waals radius ref=
 
|Van der Waals radius ref=
 
|Van der Waals radius comment=
 
|Van der Waals radius comment=
Line 171: Line 171:
 
|crystal structure prefix=
 
|crystal structure prefix=
 
|crystal structure ref=
 
|crystal structure ref=
|crystal structure comment=
+
|crystal structure comment=Face-centered cubic (fcc)
 
|crystal structure 2=
 
|crystal structure 2=
 
|crystal structure 2 prefix=
 
|crystal structure 2 prefix=
Line 182: Line 182:
 
|speed of sound rod at 20 ref=
 
|speed of sound rod at 20 ref=
 
|speed of sound rod at 20 comment=
 
|speed of sound rod at 20 comment=
|speed of sound rod at r.t.=
+
|speed of sound rod at r.t.=1190
 
|speed of sound rod at r.t. ref=
 
|speed of sound rod at r.t. ref=
|speed of sound rod at r.t. comment=
+
|speed of sound rod at r.t. comment=(annealed)
 
|thermal expansion=
 
|thermal expansion=
 
|thermal expansion ref=
 
|thermal expansion ref=
 
|thermal expansion comment=
 
|thermal expansion comment=
|thermal expansion at 25=
+
|thermal expansion at 25=28.9
 
|thermal expansion at 25 ref=
 
|thermal expansion at 25 ref=
 
|thermal expansion at 25 comment=
 
|thermal expansion at 25 comment=
|thermal conductivity=
+
|thermal conductivity=35.3
 
|thermal conductivity ref=
 
|thermal conductivity ref=
 
|thermal conductivity comment=
 
|thermal conductivity comment=
Line 207: Line 207:
 
|electrical resistivity at 0 ref=
 
|electrical resistivity at 0 ref=
 
|electrical resistivity at 0 comment=
 
|electrical resistivity at 0 comment=
|electrical resistivity at 20=
+
|electrical resistivity at 20=208×10<sup>-9</sup>
 
|electrical resistivity at 20 ref=
 
|electrical resistivity at 20 ref=
 
|electrical resistivity at 20 comment=
 
|electrical resistivity at 20 comment=
Line 216: Line 216:
 
|Curie point ref=
 
|Curie point ref=
 
|Curie point comment=
 
|Curie point comment=
|magnetic ordering=
+
|magnetic ordering=Diamagnetic
 
|magnetic ordering ref=
 
|magnetic ordering ref=
 
|magnetic ordering comment=
 
|magnetic ordering comment=
Line 222: Line 222:
 
|tensile strength ref=
 
|tensile strength ref=
 
|tensile strength comment=
 
|tensile strength comment=
|Young's modulus=
+
|Young's modulus=16
 
|Young's modulus ref=
 
|Young's modulus ref=
 
|Young's modulus comment=
 
|Young's modulus comment=
|Shear modulus=
+
|Shear modulus=5.6
 
|Shear modulus ref=
 
|Shear modulus ref=
 
|Shear modulus comment=
 
|Shear modulus comment=
|Bulk modulus=
+
|Bulk modulus=46
 
|Bulk modulus ref=
 
|Bulk modulus ref=
 
|Bulk modulus comment=
 
|Bulk modulus comment=
|Poisson ratio=
+
|Poisson ratio=0.44
 
|Poisson ratio ref=
 
|Poisson ratio ref=
 
|Poisson ratio comment=
 
|Poisson ratio comment=
|Mohs hardness=
+
|Mohs hardness=1.5
 
|Mohs hardness ref=
 
|Mohs hardness ref=
 
|Mohs hardness comment=
 
|Mohs hardness comment=
Line 243: Line 243:
 
|Vickers hardness ref=
 
|Vickers hardness ref=
 
|Vickers hardness comment=
 
|Vickers hardness comment=
|Brinell hardness=
+
|Brinell hardness=38–50
 
|Brinell hardness ref=
 
|Brinell hardness ref=
 
|Brinell hardness comment=
 
|Brinell hardness comment=
|CAS number=
+
|CAS number=7439-92-1
 
|CAS number ref=
 
|CAS number ref=
 
|CAS number comment=
 
|CAS number comment=
Line 256: Line 256:
 
|discovered by=
 
|discovered by=
 
|discovery date ref=
 
|discovery date ref=
|discovery date=
+
|discovery date=in the Middle East (7000 BCE)
 
|first isolation by=
 
|first isolation by=
 
|first isolation date ref=
 
|first isolation date ref=
Line 270: Line 270:
 
|isotopes comment=
 
|isotopes comment=
 
|engvar=
 
|engvar=
  }}[[File:IMG 1265-0.JPG|thumb|220x220px|Weathered lead pieces with various lead oxides on the outer surface.[[File:IMG 1264.JPG|thumb|220x220px|The same lead pieces pictured earlier, re-melted to show fresh surfaces.]]]]
+
  }}
'''Lead''' is a chemical element with symbol Pb and atomic number 82. It is a very heavy and dense metal, and is well-known for its toxicity.
+
[[File:Weathered lead pieces.jpg|thumb|220x220px|Weathered lead pieces with various lead oxides on the outer surface.]]
 +
[[File:Remelted weathered lead pieces.jpg|thumb|220x220px|The same lead pieces pictured earlier, re-melted to show fresh surfaces.]]
 +
'''Lead''' is a chemical element with symbol '''Pb''' and atomic number 82. It is a very heavy and dense metal with a variety of uses, and is well-known for its toxicity.
  
 
==Properties==
 
==Properties==
Line 277: Line 279:
 
Lead is resistant to certain acids such as [[sulfuric acid]] but will react with hot [[nitric acid]] to form [[lead(II) nitrate]], one of very few water-soluble lead compounds. Hot [[hydrochloric acid]] can also be used to convert lead into the poorly soluble [[lead(II) chloride]]. It will react very quickly with [[peracetic acid]] to form soluble [[lead(II) acetate]] and insoluble basic lead acetates. Lead will react with [[chlorine]] gas at elevated temperatures to produce the oily yellow liquid [[lead(IV) chloride]].
 
Lead is resistant to certain acids such as [[sulfuric acid]] but will react with hot [[nitric acid]] to form [[lead(II) nitrate]], one of very few water-soluble lead compounds. Hot [[hydrochloric acid]] can also be used to convert lead into the poorly soluble [[lead(II) chloride]]. It will react very quickly with [[peracetic acid]] to form soluble [[lead(II) acetate]] and insoluble basic lead acetates. Lead will react with [[chlorine]] gas at elevated temperatures to produce the oily yellow liquid [[lead(IV) chloride]].
  
Freshly cut lead will oxidize in air. Lead compounds span a wide range of colors, and the pigments [[lead carbonate|white lead]], [[Lead(II,IV) oxide|red lead]], and [[Lead Chromate|chrome yellow]] are all derived from it. Solutions can be tested for lead by adding a few drops of [[potassium iodide]] solution, which forms a bright yellow precipitate of [[lead(II) iodide]]. [[Sodium sulfide]] can also be used, precipitating black [[lead sulfide]].
+
Freshly cut lead will oxidize in air. Lead compounds span a wide range of colors, and the pigments [[lead carbonate|white lead]], [[Lead(II,IV) oxide|red lead]], and [[Lead(II) chromate|chrome yellow]] are all derived from it. Solutions can be tested for lead by adding a few drops of [[potassium iodide]] solution, which forms a bright yellow precipitate of [[lead(II) iodide]]. [[Sodium sulfide]] can also be used, precipitating black [[lead sulfide]].
  
 
===Physical===
 
===Physical===
Lead is a soft, malleable, and dense post-transition metal. Metallic lead has a bluish-silver color after being freshly cut, but it soon tarnishes to a dull grayish color when exposed to air. Lead has one of the lowest thermal and electrical conductivity of all metals. It is usually quickly identified from its high density and rather low melting point at 327 degrees Celsius.  
+
Lead is a soft, malleable, and dense post-transition metal. Metallic lead has a bluish-silver color after being freshly cut, but it soon tarnishes to a dull grayish color when exposed to air. Lead has one of the lowest thermal and electrical conductivity of all metals. It is usually quickly identified by its high density and rather low melting point at 327 degrees Celsius.  
  
 
==Availability==
 
==Availability==
Lead is available for sale as bars or ingots, in various purities. Oftentimes it is alloyed with antimony for hardness. Dissolving this alloyed lead in nitric acid will remove the antimony, as it precipitates as white [[antimony(III) oxide]] while the lead goes into solution. Certain wheels weights are made of lead or lead alloy (those of purer lead are very soft). Car batteries contain lead and lead oxide. Many items made in the earlier 20th century are a good source of lead, either pure or as alloy: old water pipes are a good bulk source; some car battery cable contacts were made of lead; very old hard drives tend to have counterweights made of lead; solders contain lead-tin alloy; scuba diving weight belts. The standard firearm bullets and shotgun pellets are also made of lead. Finally, lead fishing weights are widely available in outdoor or department stores.
+
Lead is available for sale as bars or ingots, in various purities. Oftentimes it is alloyed with [[antimony]] for hardness. Dissolving this alloyed lead in [[nitric acid]] will remove the antimony, as it precipitates as white [[antimony(III) oxide]] while the lead goes into solution. Certain wheels weights are made of lead or lead-antimony alloy (those of purer lead are very soft).
 +
 
 +
Lead-acid batteries, such as those used in cars, contain lead and lead oxide. Extracting the lead from these batteries is not easy, and it's quite a dangerous method. You will need to remove any leftover electrolyte, then rip apart the outer plastic coating, which is very tough, then rip apart the lead plates from their cells. During this process, the plates may short, which can be dangerous is flammable gasses are generated from the battery. After removing the lead plates, heat them with a blowtorch in a metal can to melt away the lead from them, then recast the lead to remove any impurities.<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGhNfJfSK0</ref><ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FR4sEmY-54</ref>
 +
 
 +
Many items made in the earlier 20th century are a good source of lead, either pure or as alloy: old water pipes are a good bulk source; some car battery cable contacts were made of lead; very old hard drives tend to have counterweights made of lead; solders contain lead-tin alloy; scuba diving weight belts. The standard firearm bullets and shotgun pellets are also made of lead. Finally, lead fishing weights are widely available in outdoor or department stores. Round lead seals, used for sealing various electronic terminals, are also a good source of lead. You can occasionally find them on the ground, most often in the dirt around railway  and phone control cabinets or electrical transformer stations.
  
 
==Preparation==
 
==Preparation==
Lead can be prepared by reducing one of its oxides with [[lead sulfide]] or from ions via electrowinning.
+
Lead can be prepared by reducing one of its oxides with [[lead sulfide]] or from soluble lead ions via electrowinning.
  
 
==Projects==
 
==Projects==
*Lead acetate
+
*[[Lead(II) acetate]] synthesis
 
*Lead dioxide synthesis
 
*Lead dioxide synthesis
*Lead tetroxide synthesis
+
*[[Lead(II,IV) oxide|Lead tetroxide]] synthesis
 +
*Make [[sodium nitrite]]
 
*Lead electrodes
 
*Lead electrodes
 
*Lead battery
 
*Lead battery
Line 304: Line 311:
 
===Storage===
 
===Storage===
 
Since it does not form volatile compounds under standard conditions, it's not necessary to be stored in special containers. To prevent it from oxidizing, lead may be stored in a closed bottle under inert atmosphere, [[carbon dioxide]] is best. It's recommended to avoid storing it underwater or in any other liquids, as it will slowly oxidize, since there is some oxygen dissolved in liquid, and some lead oxide may flake off and contaminate the liquid.
 
Since it does not form volatile compounds under standard conditions, it's not necessary to be stored in special containers. To prevent it from oxidizing, lead may be stored in a closed bottle under inert atmosphere, [[carbon dioxide]] is best. It's recommended to avoid storing it underwater or in any other liquids, as it will slowly oxidize, since there is some oxygen dissolved in liquid, and some lead oxide may flake off and contaminate the liquid.
 +
 +
Lead alloys, like Pb-Sb resist oxidation and can remain relative lustrous for months up to one year, as long as they're kept in a place with low humidity and no corrosive vapors are present in the storage place.
  
 
===Disposal===
 
===Disposal===
Line 311: Line 320:
 
<references/>
 
<references/>
 
===Relevant Sciencemadness threads===
 
===Relevant Sciencemadness threads===
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=24104 recovery of Pb metal]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=29674 Getting lead metal from fishing weights]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10534 Extracting lead from car batteries]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=63604 Lead metal from a lead-acid battery]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20175 RECOVERY OF LEAD FROM CAR BATTERY SCRAPS.]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2342 lead from batteries]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2277 Separation of tin and lead]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8245 Pyrophoric lead and tin]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=12635 Detecting lead in brass?]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8593 Removing lead stuck to Stainless Steel]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=62452 Success at Turning Lead into Gold]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=74200 Lead recovery from glass, theory and practic.]
 +
*[http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13620 Lead Safety Question]
  
 
[[Category:Elements]]
 
[[Category:Elements]]
Line 320: Line 342:
 
[[Category:Heavy metal toxicants]]
 
[[Category:Heavy metal toxicants]]
 
[[Category:Carcinogenic]]
 
[[Category:Carcinogenic]]
 +
[[Category:Neurotoxins]]

Revision as of 16:10, 13 April 2020

Lead,  82Pb
Lead Ingot.JPG
A freshly cast lead ingot
General properties
Name, symbol Lead, Pb
Alternative name Plumbum (Latin)
Appearance Metallic gray
Lead in the periodic table
Sn

Pb

Fl
ThalliumLeadBismuth
Atomic number 82
Standard atomic weight (Ar) 207.2(1)
Group, block (carbon group); p-block
Period period 6
Electron configuration [Xe] 4f14 5d10 6s2 6p2
per shell
2, 8, 18, 32, 18, 4
Physical properties
Metallic gray
Phase Solid
Melting point 600.61 K ​(327.46 °C, ​621.43 °F)
Boiling point 2022 K ​(1749 °C, ​3180 °F)
Density near r.t. 11.34 g/cm3
when liquid, at  10.66 g/cm3
Heat of fusion 4.77 kJ/mol
Heat of 179.5 kJ/mol
Molar heat capacity 26.65 J/(mol·K)
 pressure
Atomic properties
Oxidation states 4, 3, 2, 1 ​(2 and 4 are most common)
Electronegativity Pauling scale: 1.87 (+2)
energies 1st: 715.6 kJ/mol
2nd: 1450.5 kJ/mol
3rd: 3081.5 kJ/mol
Atomic radius empirical: 175 pm
Covalent radius 146±5 pm
Van der Waals radius 202 pm
Miscellanea
Crystal structure ​Face-centered cubic (fcc)
Speed of sound thin rod 1190 m/s (at ) (annealed)
Thermal expansion 28.9 µm/(m·K) (at 25 °C)
Thermal conductivity 35.3 W/(m·K)
Electrical resistivity 208×10-9 Ω·m (at 20 °C)
Magnetic ordering Diamagnetic
Young's modulus 16 GPa
Shear modulus 5.6 GPa
Bulk modulus 46 GPa
Poisson ratio 0.44
Mohs hardness 1.5
Brinell hardness 38–50 MPa
CAS Registry Number 7439-92-1
History
Discovery in the Middle East (7000 BCE)
· references
Weathered lead pieces with various lead oxides on the outer surface.
The same lead pieces pictured earlier, re-melted to show fresh surfaces.

Lead is a chemical element with symbol Pb and atomic number 82. It is a very heavy and dense metal with a variety of uses, and is well-known for its toxicity.

Properties

Chemical

Lead is resistant to certain acids such as sulfuric acid but will react with hot nitric acid to form lead(II) nitrate, one of very few water-soluble lead compounds. Hot hydrochloric acid can also be used to convert lead into the poorly soluble lead(II) chloride. It will react very quickly with peracetic acid to form soluble lead(II) acetate and insoluble basic lead acetates. Lead will react with chlorine gas at elevated temperatures to produce the oily yellow liquid lead(IV) chloride.

Freshly cut lead will oxidize in air. Lead compounds span a wide range of colors, and the pigments white lead, red lead, and chrome yellow are all derived from it. Solutions can be tested for lead by adding a few drops of potassium iodide solution, which forms a bright yellow precipitate of lead(II) iodide. Sodium sulfide can also be used, precipitating black lead sulfide.

Physical

Lead is a soft, malleable, and dense post-transition metal. Metallic lead has a bluish-silver color after being freshly cut, but it soon tarnishes to a dull grayish color when exposed to air. Lead has one of the lowest thermal and electrical conductivity of all metals. It is usually quickly identified by its high density and rather low melting point at 327 degrees Celsius.

Availability

Lead is available for sale as bars or ingots, in various purities. Oftentimes it is alloyed with antimony for hardness. Dissolving this alloyed lead in nitric acid will remove the antimony, as it precipitates as white antimony(III) oxide while the lead goes into solution. Certain wheels weights are made of lead or lead-antimony alloy (those of purer lead are very soft).

Lead-acid batteries, such as those used in cars, contain lead and lead oxide. Extracting the lead from these batteries is not easy, and it's quite a dangerous method. You will need to remove any leftover electrolyte, then rip apart the outer plastic coating, which is very tough, then rip apart the lead plates from their cells. During this process, the plates may short, which can be dangerous is flammable gasses are generated from the battery. After removing the lead plates, heat them with a blowtorch in a metal can to melt away the lead from them, then recast the lead to remove any impurities.[1][2]

Many items made in the earlier 20th century are a good source of lead, either pure or as alloy: old water pipes are a good bulk source; some car battery cable contacts were made of lead; very old hard drives tend to have counterweights made of lead; solders contain lead-tin alloy; scuba diving weight belts. The standard firearm bullets and shotgun pellets are also made of lead. Finally, lead fishing weights are widely available in outdoor or department stores. Round lead seals, used for sealing various electronic terminals, are also a good source of lead. You can occasionally find them on the ground, most often in the dirt around railway and phone control cabinets or electrical transformer stations.

Preparation

Lead can be prepared by reducing one of its oxides with lead sulfide or from soluble lead ions via electrowinning.

Projects

Handling

Safety

While lead is resistant to chemical attacks, it will rapidly oxidize into compounds that are extremely toxic to living beings. Lead poisoning is one of the most studied form of heavy metal poisoning in medicine and the nasty effects are well understood. It is not absolutely necessary to wear gloves while handling pieces of the metal, as long as hands are washed thoroughly after handling it. Lead in the metallic form is not absorbed through the skin at all. Soluble lead compounds, however, require more protection, and organolead compounds are the most dangerous as they are far more bioavailable and easily absorbed than any other source of lead. Because of its low melting point, lead is sometimes a popular use in home casting, although this has become less popular due to its toxicity. Contrary to popular belief, lead does not fume much when it is melted. At the temperatures that lead melts at, its vapor pressure is highly insignificant. Because of this, it is not necessary to wear a respirator while melting lead, though it is very necessary when working with lead dust, as this can be inhaled and absorbed through the lungs. It is not recommended to heat lead much higher than its melting point, as this may cause it to fume.

Most lead compounds are poorly soluble in water, but lead(II) acetate and lead(II) nitrate are quite soluble and therefore are very toxic.

Storage

Since it does not form volatile compounds under standard conditions, it's not necessary to be stored in special containers. To prevent it from oxidizing, lead may be stored in a closed bottle under inert atmosphere, carbon dioxide is best. It's recommended to avoid storing it underwater or in any other liquids, as it will slowly oxidize, since there is some oxygen dissolved in liquid, and some lead oxide may flake off and contaminate the liquid.

Lead alloys, like Pb-Sb resist oxidation and can remain relative lustrous for months up to one year, as long as they're kept in a place with low humidity and no corrosive vapors are present in the storage place.

Disposal

Lead scraps can be taken to metal recycling facilities. Scraps of metal can also be collected and re-cast into fresh pieces. Lead compounds should be converted to insoluble forms, before being taken to a hazardous waste facility.

References

  1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGhNfJfSK0
  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FR4sEmY-54

Relevant Sciencemadness threads