Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  
Author: Subject: Sourcing Ethyl Acetate?
hq02v
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 12-11-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 11:17
Sourcing Ethyl Acetate?


Hello, I am looking for advice on sourcing Ethyl Acetate.

It seems Lowe's/HomeDepot no longer stock 1gal cans of "M.E.K substitute"(Ethyl Acetate)
And local hardware stores, if any only have a quart or two left from "M.E.K substitute" from before it was discontinued.

Also the Non-Acetone nail polish removers now often do not contain Ethyl Acetate like before, and if I manage to find a MSDS for a brand that contains Ethyl Acetate(60℅+) the retailer requires a Nail Salon registration or cosmetic student I.D to purchase.

Does anyone have any suggestions? The prices per liter via ebay/Amazon and etc are ridiculous for something that use to be available by the gallon at Lowe's/HomdDepot
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fusso
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1902
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 14:43


Quote: Originally posted by hq02v  
Also the Non-Acetone nail polish removers now often do not contain Ethyl Acetate like before, and if I manage to find a MSDS for a brand that contains Ethyl Acetate(60℅+) the retailer requires a Nail Salon registration or cosmetic student I.D to purchase.
I always find bans/restrictions concerning common solvents like this ridiculous. I just wanna sneer those lawmakers and these idiotic laws:P

PS me not american, can't help sry




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Mr. Rogers
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 184
Registered: 30-10-2017
Location: Ammonia Avenue
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 15:42


Ethyl acetate isn't banned or restricted. They change the formulations of OTC products from time to time as safety standards change.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2334
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 17:44


Where are you located? Sometimes there are good sources, but they are highly localized. There is at least one place in NC that I think still sells it, but might not help in other states. Someone near OK was talking about a place there that sells damaged freight that might have had some.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AvBaeyer
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 570
Registered: 25-2-2014
Location: CA
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 21:05


Easily found on ebay or amazon. I get mine from Sierra Chemicals via ebay. It is of very high quality.

AvB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Funkerman23
National Hazard
****




Posts: 411
Registered: 4-1-2012
Location: Dixie
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 22:27


Since when is Ethyl acetate on the watched list? Did I miss something? I'll do a check at my local stor tomorow and see whats available. Ever since I started my Undergrad, I feel like I fell off the face of the earth , here.



" the Modern Chemist is inundated with literature"-Unknown
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Mr. Rogers
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 184
Registered: 30-10-2017
Location: Ammonia Avenue
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-11-2018 at 23:09


Quote: Originally posted by Funkerman23  
Since when is Ethyl acetate on the watched list?


It's not. A brand of M.E.K. substitute changed their formula. That's all.

View user's profile View All Posts By User
hq02v
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 12-11-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 07:55


Quote: Originally posted by AvBaeyer  
Easily found on ebay or amazon. I get mine from Sierra Chemicals via ebay. It is of very high quality.

AvB

Yes, I am aware of SierraChemicals on eBay and they're reputable quality but $40 for 1L is atrocious when it was available 3.7L for ~$20.


View user's profile View All Posts By User
Mr. Rogers
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 184
Registered: 30-10-2017
Location: Ammonia Avenue
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 08:11


Quote: Originally posted by hq02v  
Quote: Originally posted by AvBaeyer  
Easily found on ebay or amazon. I get mine from Sierra Chemicals via ebay. It is of very high quality.

AvB

Yes, I am aware of SierraChemicals on eBay and they're reputable quality but $40 for 1L is atrocious when it was available 3.7L for ~$20.




What you're getting from the hardware store is the same thing you're getting from a chem supplier?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
hq02v
Harmless
*




Posts: 3
Registered: 12-11-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 08:45


Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers  
Quote: Originally posted by hq02v  
Quote: Originally posted by AvBaeyer  
Easily found on ebay or amazon. I get mine from Sierra Chemicals via ebay. It is of very high quality.

AvB

Yes, I am aware of SierraChemicals on eBay and they're reputable quality but $40 for 1L is atrocious when it was available 3.7L for ~$20.




What you're getting from the hardware store is the same thing you're getting from a chem supplier?


Absolutely not, but tech grade vs lab grade is not a difference to justify a ~770% mark-up in price.

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Melgar
Anti-Spam Agent
*****




Posts: 2004
Registered: 23-2-2010
Location: Connecticut
Member Is Offline

Mood: Estrified

[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 10:05


Just a public service announcement: You really should use the "Location" field in your profile. If you're in the US, put your state, at least. In other countries, put your province, region, or country. Whichever is responsible for your local laws. Otherwise, if you show up and ask where to buy something OTC, we have no idea what stores you have access to or what the local laws/restrictions are. I don't know why some people seem to think that posting their state or country is doxxing themselves. You have an entire state/country's worth of other people to hide among.

Incidentally, when you buy highly-flammable solvents online, most of the price you're paying is for hazmat shipping. You can also improve tech-grade solvents by a grade or two just by distilling from silica gel or something similar.




The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.

I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 123
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 13-11-2018 at 22:08


Go to a beauty supply store and get the non-acetone nail polish remover. It should contain coloring, ethyl acetate, and a little bit of methanol. Distill the ethyl acetate. Then to a water wash to remove the methano, then do a brine wash to remove any traces of water. If you need it really dry, dry it with anhydrous potassium carbonate or molecular sieves 4A. A gallon costs about $30.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
artemov
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 162
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 16-11-2018 at 03:30


I found a cheap source of ethyl acetate in nail polish remover ... the ingredients are ethyl acetate, aqua, alcohol, ..., glycerol, triethanolamine, ...

So if I do a simple distillation at 70-80 C, I would expect a distillate mixture of ethyl acetate, alcohol and water right?
Would I expect the ethyl acetate to separate out into a separate layer even before the water/brine wash?
Strangely I dun see any separation in the orginal nail polish mixture even though there's significant water.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
CouchHatter
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 134
Registered: 28-10-2017
Location: Oklahoma
Member Is Offline

Mood: enthused

[*] posted on 17-11-2018 at 13:17


Just got a quart of Klean Strip MEK substitute at Home Depot for $10. Could not see it listed on their website; zero indication they carry it after extensive searching. Sitting right there with the other solvents, though. I wouldn't write it off until you've visited a few branches of Lowe's and Home Depot. The Klean Strip website is semi-helpful .

Beauty websites don't show what's available In the store. My local supplier says on the door "NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC". I got a gallon of non-acetone polish remover for $20, but it has MEK and ethyl acetate whose difference in BP are 2.54 °C. Not very worthwhile:P

[Edited on 18-11-2018 by CouchHatter]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 123
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 18-11-2018 at 22:52


Quote: Originally posted by artemov  
I found a cheap source of ethyl acetate in nail polish remover ... the ingredients are ethyl acetate, aqua, alcohol, ..., glycerol, triethanolamine, ...

So if I do a simple distillation at 70-80 C, I would expect a distillate mixture of ethyl acetate, alcohol and water right?
Would I expect the ethyl acetate to separate out into a separate layer even before the water/brine wash?
Strangely I dun see any separation in the orginal nail polish mixture even though there's significant water.


The non-acetone nail polish remover at my local beauty supply store has only ethyl acetate, methanol, and coloring. Look at your label.

What I do is distill off the ethyl acetate, ethyl acetate and methanol will distill over. Then do 3 water washes. Then do a BRINE wash (this is saturated kosher salt (pure salt) water solution, it will absorb almost all the water out of the ethyl acetate. That's it, now you have pure ethyl acetate that you can dry further with molecular sieves 4A or anhydrous potassium carbonate or anhydrous epsom salt, then filter it off and store.

You don't see any separation in your original solution because ethyl acetate can dissolve up to 8% water.

[Edited on 19-11-2018 by beerwiz]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
artemov
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 162
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 21-11-2018 at 04:55


Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz  

The non-acetone nail polish remover at my local beauty supply store has only ethyl acetate, methanol, and coloring. Look at your label.

What I do is distill off the ethyl acetate, ethyl acetate and methanol will distill over. Then do 3 water washes. Then do a BRINE wash (this is saturated kosher salt (pure salt) water solution, it will absorb almost all the water out of the ethyl acetate. That's it, now you have pure ethyl acetate that you can dry further with molecular sieves 4A or anhydrous potassium carbonate or anhydrous epsom salt, then filter it off and store.

You don't see any separation in your original solution because ethyl acetate can dissolve up to 8% water.
[Edited on 19-11-2018 by beerwiz]


I took a picture of the ingredients label, but I dunno how to attach pic ... but the ingredients are indeed ethyl acetate, (water)aqua, alcohol, glycerine, triethanolamine, tocopheryl acetate, blue 1, red 33

Water is second most abundant here ... would the glycerine serves as some kind of "emulsfier" to prevent the ethyl acetate and water from separating?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 123
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 21-11-2018 at 21:00


Most of your water will be removed during the brine wash, then you can dry it to 100% with the sieves or the epsom salt or K carbonate.

I wouldn't worry about the glycerine, it's boiling point is 290C, it will just remain in the boiling flask.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ninhydric1
National Hazard
****




Posts: 345
Registered: 21-4-2017
Location: Western US
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bleached

[*] posted on 21-11-2018 at 21:09


Be careful, ethanol and ethyl acetate form an azeotrope that boils at 71.85 deg C, 69.2% EtOAc by weight. I highly recommend do a few water washings before you actually distill so you don't have to perform multiple distillations; just distill all of the ethyl acetate at once.



The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
artemov
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 162
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-11-2018 at 02:44


Quote: Originally posted by ninhydric1  
Be careful, ethanol and ethyl acetate form an azeotrope that boils at 71.85 deg C, 69.2% EtOAc by weight. I highly recommend do a few water washings before you actually distill so you don't have to perform multiple distillations; just distill all of the ethyl acetate at once.


What's the aim of doing water washings before distillation? I thought AcOEt, EtOH and water form a ternary azeotrope.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
SuperOxide
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 216
Registered: 24-7-2019
Location: United States of America - South West
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 11:06


Hope I don't get any flack for reviving an old thread, but I have a tin can of the Klean Strip MEK substitute which is supposedly pure ethyl acetate, but I always am a bit skeptical when it comes to the purity of chemicals from sources like this (eg: I had to process the toluene to get the methylthiophene out of it so it wouldn't show up later and possibly tar or yellow up the reactions).

I get that for many of the use cases of ethyl acetate, whatever is in there is unlikely to impact the chemistry (especially since it's probably just going to be used as a solvent). But removing any other substituents just removes any variables in case something goes wrong. Also... I like to make the reagents/solvents I use as pure as I can, both for the purposes of having pure-ish chemicals and it's just a good exercise to learn.

Now even though the MSDS states that it's 100% Acetic acid, ethyl ester {Ethyl acetate}, from what I gather, sometimes they contain a bit of MeOH and/or EtOH. And if that's the case, I would like to remove it and make it as pure as I can.

So from the suggestions in this thread, it seems the best way to purify it is to:

  1. Washing with distilled water to get out any of the water soluble substituents. Separate out the water layer.
  2. Brine wash to get any residual water out.
  3. Dry it further with some drying agent, probably magnesium sulfate (This may make the brine wash step unnecessary).
  4. Distill.

Does this seem like the proper process? Or does anyone have any other suggestions?

Also, is there a good way to determine the purity? I don't think the boiling point is the best because it can still distill over (from what I gather, the boiling point wouldn't change much). So perhaps TLC? Though that would be a bit overkill, but maybe if I get some TLC plates in the future, this would be a great way to practice running TLC analysis.

Thanks in advance..

[Edited on 23-5-2021 by SuperOxide]

[Edited on 23-5-2021 by SuperOxide]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
karlos³
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1266
Registered: 10-1-2011
Location: yes!
Member Is Offline

Mood: verrückt & wissenschaftlich

[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 12:13


No thats ok like this, but in case of EtOAc you will want to do the brine wash definitely before you dry it.
Ethyl acetate can suck up quite a bit of water and that makes the brine wash really neccessary for a good dry final product.

Actually I would almost never skip the brine wash in case of an aqueous extraction, it pulls so much water out of the solvent before and that makes it so useful.
With just drying agent you would require so much and if theres product in there, then the drying agent will suck some up too, etc...
Its only superfluous in cases of alkanes or aromatics, but for everything else it does wonders.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
SuperOxide
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 216
Registered: 24-7-2019
Location: United States of America - South West
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 12:47


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
No thats ok like this, but in case of EtOAc you will want to do the brine wash definitely before you dry it.
Ethyl acetate can suck up quite a bit of water and that makes the brine wash really neccessary for a good dry final product.

Actually I would almost never skip the brine wash in case of an aqueous extraction, it pulls so much water out of the solvent before and that makes it so useful.
With just drying agent you would require so much and if theres product in there, then the drying agent will suck some up too, etc...
Its only superfluous in cases of alkanes or aromatics, but for everything else it does wonders.

Ok, so the brine wash isn't as optional as I thought - Good to know. Thanks karlos³!




"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Amos
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1318
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Yes
Member Is Offline

Mood: No

[*] posted on 24-5-2021 at 05:05


Quote: Originally posted by CouchHatter  
Just got a quart of Klean Strip MEK substitute at Home Depot for $10. Could not see it listed on their website; zero indication they carry it after extensive searching. Sitting right there with the other solvents, though. I wouldn't write it off until you've visited a few branches of Lowe's and Home Depot.


This has been my experience too, there are even extra cans up top in the stocking shelves, so I don't think they'll run out any time soon. If anyone in the thread still can't find this product, the major US hardware stores are often stocking "Green" Denatured Alcohol, in which the only denaturant of the ethanol is a large proportion of ethyl acetate. While these two are difficult to separate by traditional means, repeated brine washing or some washing followed by distillation may work. The product straight out of the can is also a much more cost-effective starting material for preparing your own ethyl acetate via esterification with cheap glacial acetic acid. Hope some of this helps.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
karlos³
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1266
Registered: 10-1-2011
Location: yes!
Member Is Offline

Mood: verrückt & wissenschaftlich

[*] posted on 24-5-2021 at 05:12


But if you have ethanol denatured with ethyl acetate, you can simply add base and distill the ethanol off from the formed acetate salt?
Ethyl acetate is in general actually a pretty good source for pretty low water containing undenatured ethanol.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
SuperOxide
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 216
Registered: 24-7-2019
Location: United States of America - South West
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 24-5-2021 at 09:05


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
But if you have ethanol denatured with ethyl acetate, you can simply add base and distill the ethanol off from the formed acetate salt?
Wouldn't adding the base hydrolyse the ethyl acetate to form ethanol? (Got that idea from a Dougs Lab video)



"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  

  Go To Top