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Author: Subject: Why was Anders Hoveland banned?
gardenvariety
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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 06:29


I haven't been on here long enough to have read many of his posts, but the few I have read didn't seem to be high in content. Up until his most recent posts about making how-to explosive manuals for racial separatists, which sounds like a good reason for a ban to me.
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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 07:00


Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  

BS.

Without daily vitamine supliments they look like herion addicts with funky skin color and bags under there eyes. Meat is basis of human health else we would not have evolved the teeth to chew it.

There are theorys that those with overbites are a reminent of a past form of human that was mainly a root eater but its just that a theory. Homosapians need protien they can only get from meat. All else is just PETA dogma

[Edited on 23-7-2010 by Sedit]

It's quite ironic that you accuse others of dogma, when you are the one arguing against reality. Vegetarians exist a few thousand years longer than PETA and everyone has his personal reasons. I'm vegetarian, I love food, I lack nothing, I eat too much and in consequence I'm overweight. I know other vegetarians and vegans with the same "problem" (if enjoying life can be considered a problem). So if the vegetarians you know look like heroin junkies, then the fact that they don't eat meat is not their problem. Maybe they don't know how to cook, have depressions or really are junkies.

Your argument about evolution is very weak, by the way. Just because the ability to eat meat once gave an evolutionary advantage (before agriculture, refrigeration and container ships) does not mean that eating meat is necessary.

PS: What I personally find totally ridiculous is people who eat pigs, cows and chickens but refuse to eat horse, dog or frog. I've tasted all three when I was still eating meat and IMHO horse is better than cow and frog much better than chicken. :)
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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 07:48


Im not attacking you personally in anyway at all but there is literature out that that I don't really feel like searching for showing that vegans do not get the requirements of proteins , vitamins, and fatty acids needed to prevent the body from over working itself.

I would eat horse although I always figured it would be rather tough due to there mussle structure and as for frog... something about slimey and tiny turns me off on that one. Perhaps a big giant frog that is skinned and nice and tender would be ok.

I don't feel the argument about evolution is weak at all. Omnivores evolved there teeth for this very use of eating meat and gathering the nutrition it contains. Even if they are reminisent of a time we NEEDED meat is it such a stretch to think that other parts of the body still contain this, in your views, a trait no longer needed. I feel if the teeth are still there then there is at lest one part of your body that still needs the nutriants they where evolved to intake.

What are the benifits in your eyes to not eating any meat? I can see many reasons for limiting meat intake of certine types but what is to be gained by eliminating it all together. As a vegan would you be willing to replace meat with insects, since that would be healthier then anything by far?

Random web image of vegans, weird ones at that who will not sleep with people that eat animals:P . Note the saddle bags under the eyes. This is typical of what I have seen from vegans, nothing personal just an observation of mine since I know many many vegans.


[Edited on 23-7-2010 by Sedit]





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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 08:04


That picture is very bad for one's sexual appetite.....

Have we not said all we need to on this subject? Isn't it time we moved on?





EDIT:
I used to have a girlfriend who used a very cute expression. She used to say she "would not eat anything with a face".


[Edited on 24-7-2010 by quicksilver]




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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 08:15


Yet to meet a vegan kid who didn't have awful teeth (brittle and cracked, generally). But veganism and vegetarianism are really two entirely different levels of difficulty in terms of managing to get fairly complete nutrition. Vegetarians (as usually defined) can still eat eggs, milk and butter - and eggs in particular have pretty much the same nutrients as meat. Putting together a vegan diet with enough zinc, B12, fat and so on ends up being a bit of a project - and likely not easy to stick with unless you're fairly disciplined.
Feasibility probably depends on your ancestry, too. I bet the average Tamil would do better on a vegetarian diet than an Inuit.
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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 13:26


They look like normal, aging, busy people. I'm only 23, eat meat, exercise... and I look worse than that.

I think the correlation goes the other way:

It's not veganism makes you scummy, it's more likely that scummy people will be vegan :P




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I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 14:41


My friend is from a vegan family and has lost about half his teeth. Could just be genetics though, since I come from a family that has near perfect teeth. I don't even need to brush them, but the bad breath can get real nasty.

As for evolution, hunting (and making tools for hunting) was probably a very important prerequisite for a large brain.

Do whatever makes you happy. I just hate when vegans preach to me. Nothing they say will make me magically realize "Oh my god, meat is disgusting!" I come from a family that loves meat and eats it for breakfast, lunch and dinner. We also love vegetables.

When I was in France I ate frog legs and they taste like chicken. Expensive and not very filling.
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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 18:11


That poor vegan, especially if he had been one from childhood, would have had severe and chronic deficiencies of calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, iron, sulfur, proteins, most trace elements (especially zinc, cobalt, copper, manganese, chromium, vanadium, molybdenum, iodine), and of all vitamins except vitamin C (ascorbic acid) and possibly E, so it is no wonder that he has such bad bones and teeth. He probably also has osteoporosis.

[Edited on 24-7-10 by JohnWW]
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Sedit
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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 18:29


Look, im not saying its impossible to be a vegan in these days in age. It is possible to stay healthy and not eat meat. Theres always sea weed and kelps of all kinds combined with a diet high in soy im sure you could accomplish the majority of your daily nutritional intake.

So surely its not impossible. It is however highly impractical. To put it into chemistry terms for all of us nerds its like attempting a total synthesis when we had a direct precursor on hand the whole time. Combining a vegan diet with the disipline many vegans have with a healthy amount of meat would be the ultimate picture of health without overworking the body.





Knowledge is useless to useless people...

"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story before."~Maynard James Keenan
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[*] posted on 23-7-2010 at 23:11


Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  

What are the benifits in your eyes to not eating any meat? I can see many reasons for limiting meat intake of certine types but what is to be gained by eliminating it all together. As a vegan would you be willing to replace meat with insects, since that would be healthier then anything by far?

Weird question. The same benefits you get from not eating frog. I think it's disgusting (and insects are creepy). I reduced my meat intake over the years and was very happy with it. I spare you the details, it's long and not interesting. I'm not vegan and probably not even strictly vegetarian since I eat a good piece of cheese even though it has a little piece of cow stomach inside. But that little piece of cow stomach is certainly not the reason for me being well(/over)-fed.
BTW: I'm the only person I know without dental fillings. :)

The picture you posted are not random vegans, these are members of some crazy animal rights organisation (http://www.mindinganimals.com/index.php?option=com_content&a...), i.e. politicians. IMHO they look better than most other politicians in the 40-50 years range.
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 07:47


Quote:
Weird question. The same benefits you get from not eating frog. I think it's disgusting (and insects are creepy).

Fair enough I guess.

As far as the randomness of the vegans in the photo. Yes it was random and they where some of the first clear images in goggle search when I typed it in. Just so happens they are complete loons and vegans. Its possiby and effect of what psychokinetic said
Quote:
It's not veganism makes you scummy, it's more likely that scummy people will be vegan

and I hope you dont take offense to this but it maybe that its easier for crazys to lean towards veganism.

Its simular to the drug users effect were in many cases the person would be fucked up even if they didn't take drugs but there personlity trait lead them down that path of being scummy and drugged up even though there are many drug users that are perfectly fine in there use yet it tends to attract the wrong kind of attention from the wrong kind of people.

People like those in the photos just seem to be attention whores and since veganism wasn't enough to get them noticed they had to resort of being crazy and vegan before they got there own web writeup about them. It even said in one part they don't have sex with meat eater because meat eaters are made up of parts of dead animals. Thats loony and illogical as it gets. Have they stopped to consider what makes up the plants they eat? We are all made up of dead animals no matter how you look at it.









Knowledge is useless to useless people...

"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story before."~Maynard James Keenan
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 11:32


Um, may I ask that a mod pull the veg(itari)an messages out of here and make a thread in whimsy?

Maybe it is easier for a crazy person to be vegan - if it means they care less about the self-serving bullshit criticism from others.

Anyone who thinks vegans are going to be deficient by default in anything does not know the facts. There are a very few nutrients that, to be sure of an adequate supply, certain of our foods are fortified with.

Protein - Most *vegans* I know eat too much protein. Never mind meat eaters and vegetarians. There is no valid excuse bar poverty to be not getting enough protein.

Calcium - a large percentage of the recommended calcium intake is due to loss of calcium from excessive animal protein consumption. It's not hard to get plenty.

The only vitamin worth worrying about is B12 - the rest we get plenty of - and it is present in large (well, large for a vitamin measured in micrograms, everything's relative) quantities in several products we eat.

I admit my girlfriend gets more zinc than I do.

I could go on, but essentially my point is - if you don't give a fuck about exploiting non-human animals, go ahead and do it. I won't attack you for it, not will I treat you differently because of it. Just understand that I think of you the way I think of the guy picking his nose on the bus. And don't pretend that its hard to be a healthy vegan. Years ago, it took a lot of effort, but now there are so many products aimed at us, that it really is no problem.



[Edited on 24-7-10 by Oxydro]




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Magpie
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 11:34


Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  

It even said in one part they don't have sex with meat eater because meat eaters are made up of parts of dead animals. Thats loony and illogical as it gets. Have they stopped to consider what makes up the plants they eat? We are all made up of dead animals no matter how you look at it.


This is the same type of silliness that we have been hearing for years about :

1. When imbibing water, it matters what you are drinking that has the water in it.

2. When eating sugar (sucrose, glucose, fructose) it matters what you are eating that contains this sugar.

I've always argued that H2O is H2O no matter where it comes from, and that this holds true for the named sugars also. Sucrose is broken down by the catalyst saliva into glucose and fructose in the mouth.

In regard to eating meat, I know a 64 year-old man that eats only wild meat that he obtains by hunting and fishing. He also gets walking and hiking exercise daily. He is at that age where periodic colonoscopy screening is recommended. His doctor said that he had the colon of a 25 year-old.

You can go further and say that we are all made up of stardust. (Carl Sagan)
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 11:53


Quote:
His doctor said that he had the colon of a 25 year-old.

Innuendo?

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psychokinetic
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 13:29


Oxydro: You've got to admit that food choices and eating lifestyles are FAR more interesting than Anders Hoveland.



“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 14:25


And (apropos enough, since this is a chemistry forum...) don't forget old Owsley Stanley, LSD cook extraordinaire, who apparently has eaten nothing but meat, eggs, milk and cheese since 1956 or 1959; believing apparently that vegetables are toxic. Here's a picture of him at the age of 64: http://www.owndoc.com/uploads/bear-s.jpg
Not too bad looking for someone his age.

Quote:
Anyone who thinks vegans are going to be deficient by default in anything does not know the facts.


My observations are mostly empirical. Vegan kids, six of the six I've known (all age < 8), every one had terrible basically pathological teeth. I don't have a specific theory regarding deficiency, but something seems amiss. I might add that vegans will, by default, be deficient in vitamin B12; that's easily remedied, to be sure, but it makes your blanket statement false.
For those interested in a bigger dataset, I would suggest digging up the NHANES data - they have information on diet and health for large numbers of Americans. On a previous occasion, I crunched the numbers for NHANES III and found a very strong positive association between frequency of cheese consumption and self-reported dental health...
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 16:38


Anyone who was raised on a vegan diet should seriously consider consulting an attorney and filing a civil suit against their parents for child abuse.

http://www.hugesettlements.com/Personal-Injury/3098.html
Quote:
The baby was diagnosed with severe malnutrition and rickets. Doctors considered it a terrible case of neglect. Nevertheless, the parents claimed that they thought the diet was the best for the girl.

Quote:
There have been studies that show that when women avoid animal food their babies are born small with a slow growth process and retarded. In these cases, the damage to the child begins in the womb and evolves as he/she is growing up.


I think that people who take part in the vegan lifestyle suffer from the same human behavioral weaknesses found in people who take part in religions. That is, the inability to think rationally or realistically, and the ability to take part in delusional fantasies in order to feel socially accepted.
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 17:49


Quote: Originally posted by anotheronebitesthedust  
I think that people who take part in the vegan lifestyle suffer from the same human behavioral weaknesses found in people who take part in religions. That is, the inability to think rationally or realistically, and the ability to take part in delusional fantasies in order to feel socially accepted.
Man, I didn't fight my way to the top of the foodchain to be a vegetarian, but what the hell does religion have to do with it? Why take a gratuitous swipe at those who believe in a higher being just for the hell of it?

[Edited on 25-7-2010 by entropy51]
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 19:17


Whoa man let's try to keep it civil eh! No reason to get all personal. :P
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[*] posted on 24-7-2010 at 20:32


I do have agreement with the idea of expecting mothers needing a blood meal so to speak. It happens all thoughout the animal and insect kingdom where even natural vegans will suddenly find the need for the protiens blood contains in order to support the added nutritional weight bearing a child requires. Take mosquitoes as an example where the males and females will feed on necture until its time to bear offspring at which point the become a pain in the ass if thats where it decides to bite you.

I know im going to here the argument that we are not mosquitoes but keep in mind this is a recurring pattern all thoughout nature.





Knowledge is useless to useless people...

"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story before."~Maynard James Keenan
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turd
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[*] posted on 25-7-2010 at 01:14


Quote: Originally posted by anotheronebitesthedust  
I think that people who take part in the vegan lifestyle suffer from the same human behavioral weaknesses found in people who take part in religions. That is, the inability to think rationally or realistically, and the ability to take part in delusional fantasies in order to feel socially accepted.

Lol. You are right with your opinion on religion. But sorry to tell you, your rationalizing of meat intake has religious traits. Diet is something highly irrational and has always been. Otherwise we would eat the meat of road casualities and stag beetles that cross our path. Yuck.

Maybe everyone should consider facts instead of anecdotal evidence. The American Dietic Association writes (emphasis added):
Quote:
CONCLUSIONS
Appropriately planned vegetarian diets have been shown to be
healthful, nutritionally adequate, and beneficial in the preven-
tion and treatment of certain diseases. Vegetarian diets are
appropriate for all stages of the life cycle.
There are many
reasons for the rising interest in vegetarianism. The number of
vegetarians in the United States and Canada is expected to
increase over the next decade. Dietetics professionals can as-
sist vegetarian clients by providing current, accurate informa-
tion about vegetarian nutrition, foods, and resources.

Source: http://www.lpda.pt/vegetarianismo/ada_dc_veg.pdf

Saying that all vegetarians are malnourished is like saying all meat eaters look like this:

I.e. Bullshit.
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[*] posted on 25-7-2010 at 03:06


Quote: Originally posted by turd  


PS: What I personally find totally ridiculous is people who eat pigs, cows and chickens but refuse to eat horse, dog or frog. I've tasted all three when I was still eating meat and IMHO horse is better than cow and frog much better than chicken. :)


frog is by far the best tasting of the three. But comes in small sizes so it is as inefficient as eating chicken wings.

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  

I would eat horse although I always figured it would be rather tough due to there mussle structure and as for frog... something about slimey and tiny turns me off on that one. Perhaps a big giant frog that is skinned and nice and tender would be ok.



The only cuts of horse I have eaten were tough, but that was because I bought the cheap cuts, I hear it can be quite tender.
Frog meat is not slimy at all.

Insects can be quite good if prepared properly, and make sure ants are dead, they can bite you in the back of the throat.

Quote: Originally posted by turd  
But sorry to tell you, your rationalizing of meat intake has religious traits. Diet is something highly irrational and has always been. Otherwise we would eat the meat of road casualities and stag beetles that cross our path. Yuck.


Eating human meat would cause diseases that were well documented in cannibalistic societies. Are stag beetles toxic? if not I would try them.

Yeah, I like eating pretty much everything. Except cauliflower. I cannot stand the taste.




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[*] posted on 25-7-2010 at 07:40


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qgZls0sx4&feature=relat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhs9dH8i2Po&feature=relat...

[Edited on 25-7-2010 by peach]




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[*] posted on 25-7-2010 at 08:23


Yes peach the video is shocking but thats just because humans have turned into a bunch of pansys that cant handle the realitys of nature anymore. A lion kills a zebra and everyone watches on the nature channel but a human kills a cow and its atrocious.

Anyone who thinks that it was a horrible sight to watch and no longer wishes to eat meat because of it they must also stop using soap, perfumes, many medications, toothpaste, cosmetics, anything with Glycerin in it, stop eating jello, cut out Myristic Acid from there life and Stearic Acid while were at it. Many of the vitamines they take to compensate for the lack there of gotta go as well, anything that contains bone meal(such as the fertilizers they put on there vegies because even the vegitables know they need a little meat in there diet). The list could go on for hours and while much could be synthetic it boils down to practicality of supplying such a large population with these materials from synthetic and vegitable sources.

We are not barberians I would have to say that very little if any of the animals are wasted. Just be lucky we no longer live in the day where you would have to be the fellow cutting the necks of these animals to get all of the products you all take for granted.





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"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story before."~Maynard James Keenan
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[*] posted on 25-7-2010 at 08:43


i want to ask one question only, why this post turns from banning of this users to discuss this problem, just wondering as i see new post every day in this thread.
:(
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