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Author: Subject: I need help finding the very bane of roaches existence...
TheNerdyFarmer
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 04:11
I need help finding the very bane of roaches existence...


Hey guys. Been a long time since I’ve been here. A lot has been happening in the development that is my life.
However... I am back in search of help and you guys expertise on a most important matter...

I recently moved into a house only to find that there are wood roaches in it. Naturally this I find this somewhat disturbing. My roommate have been trying all sorts of stuff to try to kill and or repel them. Despite these valiant efforts, the roach’s existence has yet to cease.

Therefore I think it is time I begin using my imagination and taking it upon myself to eradicate these little bastards.

So where you guys come in is the expertise part. I have a fair knowledge of chemicals and how they work with each other... but other than your standard borate or boric acid bug killers, I’m at a loss as to what I should use. It just has to be safe for us humans. Which is quite the task I know.

And so my fellow home chemists and mad scientists I need you to be as creative as possible on this one. If a synthesis is required, then no problem. I will do anything haha. These little bastards must all die and/or go very far away. There are some amazing minds here, so I look forward to see what you ladies and gentleman come up with.

By the way, I will also be doing my own research and posting it here, I think this could be a very useful discussion for more than just myself.

And so with that, run loose, any efforts towards this dilemma will be greatly appreciated. I can’t wait to see what I hear when a home chemists unlocks their inner exterminator!
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artemov
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 04:27


A very very thin layer of boric acid powder where they frequent?
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 07:17


If you have some halo-benzene and chloral (hydrate) you could make DDT.

Link

[Edited on 9-12-2020 by Tsjerk]
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itsallgoodjames
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 07:59


Nitrogen triiodide. Explode the little buggers :D

In all seriousness, boric acid or DDT would probably work. I'm interested to see what other people will suggest, this thread could get quite interesting.




Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...

Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
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WGTR
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 08:23


What do wood roaches like to eat? What type of environment do they like living in? Is there a certain humidity level that they like, or a certain temperature? Try doing the opposite of all that.

I got rid of scorpions just by keeping the house clean and keeping it below 70 degrees. Yeah, I don’t like a cold house, but scorpions don’t either...




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mayko
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 08:27


I've had good results with diatomaceous earth. I also use a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol and a lighter if I can sneak up on them; you can douse a surface with burning alcohol pretty easily and then blow it out. It doesn't necessarily kill them, but it singes their legs and wings such that they're immobilized and you can deal with them.... mechanically. The one really bad roach problem I had was ultimately dealt with only by aggressively attacking their habitats, which meant taking the panels off appliances and cleaning the kitchen top to bottom every week. Those were german roaches though.

I've also tried the flamethrower approach on mosquito swarms in the woods (you need a blowtorch to keep it going though, a lighter flame is too fragile). I've noticed that if you see a mosquito on you, you can bring a lighter flame down on it from above and it usually won't notice. I think that trying to swat them seems to create a bow wave that pushes them out of the way, but the draft of the flame seems to suck them in if anything. Again, usually doesn't kill them, but those li'l wings are gone in an instant.








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Fyndium
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 09:15


Quote: Originally posted by itsallgoodjames  
Nitrogen triiodide. Explode the little buggers :D


I was thinking of chlorine trifluoride. Whatever it doesn't explode or burn on contact, will poison it. Place it on a clean quartz plate and wait.. :cool:
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itsallgoodjames
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 10:24


Quote: Originally posted by Fyndium  
Quote: Originally posted by itsallgoodjames  
Nitrogen triiodide. Explode the little buggers :D


I was thinking of chlorine trifluoride. Whatever it doesn't explode or burn on contact, will poison it. Place it on a clean quartz plate and wait.. :cool:


From the Wikipedia page:

Quote:

The compound reacts with water-based suppressors, and oxidizes even in the absence of atmospheric oxygen, rendering traditional atmosphere-displacement suppressors such as CO2 and halon ineffective. It ignites glass on contact.


It's hypergolic with glass, and I presume the quartz dish in question




Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...

Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
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Fyndium
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 10:45


According to the same page:

"Pure ClF3 is stable to 180 °C in quartz vessels".

I've heard, though, also, that it burns glass and is only storable in passive metal containers.
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teodor
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 10:56


Quote: Originally posted by Fyndium  
According to the same page:

"Pure ClF3 is stable to 180 °C in quartz vessels".

I've heard, though, also, that it burns glass and is only storable in passive metal containers.


Do you mean this for battle with cockroaches?
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itsallgoodjames
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 10:58


Ah, I was under the impression that quartz generally had simelar chemical resistance to glass. Though I imagine a roach/fluorine fire would burn a lot hotter than 180°.



Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...

Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
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ChemichaelRXN
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 10:58


You will have to experiment. You’d probably need like ten of these around the house in cabinets and in the walls. Basically I was thinking of a covered rectangle sticky pad with an opening on either end and a low wattage LED and maybe food in the centre.

I was thinking about a lightly heated rectangle sticky pad that possibly releases a light amount of CO2 to mimic the body to kill bed bugs too.

Again, you’d need to experiment, but there could be your new product to passively kill those invasive critters.





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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 11:03


One of the problems with the eradication of roaches is that even if they are killed, let's say by poisoning, the body of the female will still release a viable egg sack. You need an option that either obliterates them immediately or captures them in way that if an egg sack is produced it is also captured and destroyed. I can't think of an option right now that overcomes this, but it is a design factor that you will need to consider. I will give it some more thought though. Which species are we talking here?
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itsallgoodjames
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 11:12


Well that makes the task harder. Will heavy metal salts transfer to the eggs? If so, than that could be an option.



Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...

Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 12:46


I second Tsjerk's wonderful DDT(analogue) synthesis as a measure.
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 13:12


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I second Tsjerk's wonderful DDT(analogue) synthesis as a measure.


This paper suggest even some method how to test DDT strength with roaches.
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 13:13


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I second Tsjerk's wonderful DDT(analogue) synthesis as a measure.


It depends on the species, the German cockroach for example has high resistance to most OCPs, OPPs and carbamates.
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teodor
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 13:18


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I second Tsjerk's wonderful DDT(analogue) synthesis as a measure.


It depends on the species, the German cockroach for example has high resistance to most OCPs, OPPs and carbamates.


If you check the paper I mentioned well-trained "resistant" rouches do it by some sort of metabolism named "dehydrochlorination". But now we propose them something for "dehydrobromination" and who knowns.

[Edited on 9-12-2020 by teodor]
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 14:44


Quote: Originally posted by teodor  
Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I second Tsjerk's wonderful DDT(analogue) synthesis as a measure.


It depends on the species, the German cockroach for example has high resistance to most OCPs, OPPs and carbamates.


If you check the paper I mentioned well-trained "resistant" rouches do it by some sort of metabolism named "dehydrochlorination". But now we propose them something for "dehydrobromination" and who knowns.

[Edited on 9-12-2020 by teodor]


That is a very good point and if the compound is as it effective on cockroaches as its observed effectiveness on flies and aphids then it would effectively work as a pre-emergent. Even if the females were able to deposit their egg sacks the emerging young would be killed on contact with the treated surface. Tsjerk's DDT(analogue) get's my vote. Please do keep us posted with your progress and success or otherwise @TheNerdyFarmer!
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[*] posted on 9-12-2020 at 17:00


Another avenue is to eliminate any possible crumb of a food source and ways of entering a building.
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 10-12-2020 at 12:38


Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
Another avenue is to eliminate any possible crumb of a food source and ways of entering a building.

But we are chemists, we can do it even more effective and funnier :)
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[*] posted on 10-12-2020 at 12:44


1) clean up any food, do not leave sitting dishes
2) remove water sources - literally plug all drains at night and add chlorine based cleaner to the toilet and drains
3) roach bait traps with insect growth regulators (they cannot breed if they eat it)
4) boric acid, many OTC traps contain boric acid mixed in an edible form
5) diatomaceous earth
6) pyrethrin or resmethrin based insecticide foggers
7) residual sprays like ortho home defense
8) you can temperature treat the house
a) cold climate involves turning off water and draining pipes and going on a 3 day trip with temperatures allowed to go well below freezing in the house
b) heat treat - multiple heaters with the goal of getting the house temperture about 120F.

Use as many of these as you can.

Other treatments:
ozone or formaldehyde mold remover will kill everything living in the house over several days but may discolor fabrics and change the texture. You need to completely vacate the premises for this to be safe. Remove all clothing, food, medicine, etc.
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[*] posted on 10-12-2020 at 17:50


Wood roaches do not actually live or breed indoors and need moist environment (ie: outdoors) but end up inside because they are attracted to light and by wandering. If they are indeed wood roaches, you may do better by just sealing cracks, replacing weather stripping, investing in heavier curtains or blinds, moving wood piles away from the house, and reducing exterior illumination at night.
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[*] posted on 10-12-2020 at 18:53


I would strongly recommend using some roach bait gel, putting it in hidden places all over the house, and then buy some different trap type baits that use a different poison. The link below is one good one that uses fipronil, but there are about 4 newer compounds that work well, including ivermectin, fipronil, and a few others, and using at least 2 or three of them works best. Traps and bait are better than just spraying, as they have the poison in a food source that roaches like, so the bugs come to them. I used them on a vacant house I was cleaning out to sell that was badly infested. You could also use boronic acid to complement those, but it does not work as well by itself, in my experience.

I found that the gel could be placed on note cards or small pieces of paper and those placed inside cabinets, on the floor/baseboard, on window sills, and in corners. Easier to clean up that way or move to other places. Sadly, most of the poisons used are pretty complex now, so hard to make yourself, but if someone was really interested, the literature is not that hard to find. Imidacloprid might be doable, Pyriproxyfen is also not as complex as some others.

https://www.domyown.com/maxforce-fc-select-roach-bait-gel-p-...

for others, just google "roach bait" or other similar ones.
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[*] posted on 10-12-2020 at 20:47
Combat Roach Trays


They're not expensive and every time I've
used them 100% effective. Nothing ever
worked better for me. The little bastards
eat poisoned bait and carry it back to their
nests.




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