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Author: Subject: Mixes Fast enough for shape charges
Brightthermite
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[*] posted on 10-12-2020 at 20:16
Mixes Fast enough for shape charges


Ive been doing some test with small shape charges, under 10 grams using ETN. I have a light bulb I would like to try as a cone but i really dont have the means to produce enough ETN for the charge.

Can anyone point me in the right direction with something potentially AN or AP based? I have some chlorates as well.

Thanks!
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 10-12-2020 at 20:22


Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite  
Ive been doing some test with small shape charges, under 10 grams using ETN. I have a light bulb I would like to try as a cone but i really dont have the means to produce enough ETN for the charge.

Can anyone point me in the right direction with something potentially AN or AP based? I have some chlorates as well.

Thanks!


What is your limitation with regard to ETN production?
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Brightthermite
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[*] posted on 11-12-2020 at 11:59


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite  
Ive been doing some test with small shape charges, under 10 grams using ETN. I have a light bulb I would like to try as a cone but i really dont have the means to produce enough ETN for the charge.

Can anyone point me in the right direction with something potentially AN or AP based? I have some chlorates as well.

Thanks!


What is your limitation with regard to ETN production?


At this moment time and acid.
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itsallgoodjames
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[*] posted on 11-12-2020 at 12:04


Anything related to AP seems like a bad idea, especially in larger amounts. If you have access to the affor-mentioned ammonium nitrate, it shouldn't be too hard to make a bit of HNO3



Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...

Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
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Brightthermite
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[*] posted on 11-12-2020 at 12:16


Quote: Originally posted by itsallgoodjames  
Anything related to AP seems like a bad idea, especially in larger amounts. If you have access to the affor-mentioned ammonium nitrate, it shouldn't be too hard to make a bit of HNO3


Should have been more specific, I mean ammonium perchlorate by AP.
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[*] posted on 11-12-2020 at 12:55


Sounds like you have all you need for TACP?
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[*] posted on 11-12-2020 at 20:35


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Sounds like you have all you need for TACP?


Out of ammonium hydroxide, any tips to prepare some?
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[*] posted on 11-12-2020 at 23:11


Urea or any ammonia salt with sodium hydroxide will release ammonia, then bubble that through dH2O. Nurdrage has a good video on it https://youtu.be/0-jJ5QF-EVE
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 12-12-2020 at 13:09


ETN is good for detonator filling. But for a lot applications is too much strong, unnecessarily expensive. Shaped charges works pretty good with VoD 6 - 7 Km /s. Respectively is it enough for amateur examination. Even 5 Km is enough sometimes. If you have diethylene glycol you can try this patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5665935A/en



Safety explosive Alfred Nobel 1867. Safety ecologic detonator Dr. Liptakov 2015, inventor of CHP
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Brightthermite
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[*] posted on 12-12-2020 at 17:26


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
ETN is good for detonator filling. But for a lot applications is too much strong, unnecessarily expensive. Shaped charges works pretty good with VoD 6 - 7 Km /s. Respectively is it enough for amateur examination. Even 5 Km is enough sometimes. If you have diethylene glycol you can try this patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5665935A/en


I read through the patent and believe I will try the following:
Diethylene Glycol 74%Water 11%Calcium Nitrate 12%Guar Gum 2%Glacial Acetic Acid 1%______________________________________

Is there any you recommend or have experience with?
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[*] posted on 13-12-2020 at 12:00


Sodium perchlorate 75 Diethylene glycol 25 Water 10, by parts of weight. Works sure.



Safety explosive Alfred Nobel 1867. Safety ecologic detonator Dr. Liptakov 2015, inventor of CHP
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[*] posted on 13-12-2020 at 14:17


3NH4ClO4 + 3NaNO3 + 10CH3NO2
28.94% / 20.94% / 50.12%


NH4ClO4 + NaNO3 + C2H4(OH)2
44.41% / 32.13% / 23.46%

[Edited on 14-12-2020 by Nitrosio]
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[*] posted on 13-12-2020 at 14:27


Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite  


I read through the patent and believe I will try the following:
Diethylene Glycol 74%Water 11%Calcium Nitrate 12%Guar Gum 2%Glacial Acetic Acid 1%______________________________________

Is there any you recommend or have experience with?


Which chlorate/perchlorate do you intend to use? I see they say that ammonium chlorate can be used, which I think would be best avoided with this mix. Please report back with how this performs.
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[*] posted on 13-12-2020 at 14:57


Read the claims especially. Thither is base of the invent. In description are different mixtures, which not works. Only on protect and cover of main claims. The invent is NaClO4 + DEG + H2O.



Safety explosive Alfred Nobel 1867. Safety ecologic detonator Dr. Liptakov 2015, inventor of CHP
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[*] posted on 14-12-2020 at 11:17


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite  


I read through the patent and believe I will try the following:
Diethylene Glycol 74%Water 11%Calcium Nitrate 12%Guar Gum 2%Glacial Acetic Acid 1%______________________________________

Is there any you recommend or have experience with?


Which chlorate/perchlorate do you intend to use? I see they say that ammonium chlorate can be used, which I think would be best avoided with this mix. Please report back with how this performs.


I jumped the gun and chose this mix before actually coming home from school and realizing I have barley any of the required chemicals haha. I went with a 15 gram mix of 25 Ethylene glycol (no di, sourced from antifreeze), 75 KClO4, and 10 parts water. The mix never fully cured, it only set up to a paste, Im assuming because of the glycol used. Performance wasn't too good, there was no residue left over but the blast seemed no more powerful than my caps themselves. No damage to the witness plate at all.

My I ask why you say ammonium perchlorate should be avoided?

[Edited on 14-12-2020 by Brightthermite]

[Edited on 14-12-2020 by Brightthermite]
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[*] posted on 14-12-2020 at 11:35


Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite  


My I ask why you say ammonium perchlorate should be avoided?

[Edited on 14-12-2020 by Brightthermite]


I said ammonium chlorate is to be avoided, not perchlorate.
It is unstable enough as it is without adding it to a mixture fuels and oxidisers. I was surprised to see it in the list of suggested chlorates for this composition. I doubt it would persist in such a mix without spontaneously decomposing explosively or otherwise.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 14-12-2020 at 12:41


Um ... it won't be easy. Use sulfuric acid and nitric acid and water for nitration ..... OK, thank you for the advice ...! ... Day 2: When I came home from school, I used formic acid obtained from an anthill for nitration. And hydrochloric acid. And some water, too. Nitration failed. Maybe I ground a too few ants into hydrochloric acid. There were also some needles from the anthill. I think the nitration not worked because I added a too much water there ....:cool:



Safety explosive Alfred Nobel 1867. Safety ecologic detonator Dr. Liptakov 2015, inventor of CHP
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[*] posted on 14-12-2020 at 15:05


NH4ClO4 + NaNO3 + C2H4(OH)2
44.41% / 32.13% / 23.46%

Replacing sodium nitrate with potassium nitrate, I tried this mix as well as ammonium perchlorate and ethylene glycol in 75/25. Both SOUNDED like they performed better than the KClO4 mix I tired. My witness place is too thick to show good results without a penetrator. Ill test the mixes again tomorrow with a thinner plate.
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[*] posted on 14-12-2020 at 18:42


NH4ClO4 + KNO3 + C2H6O2 = KCl + 2CO2 + 5H2O + N2
41.86% / 36.02% / 22.12%


5NH4ClO4 + 2C2H6O2 = 4CO2 + 16H2O + 2.5N2 + 2.5Cl2
82.55% / 17.45%
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[*] posted on 15-12-2020 at 12:37


NH4ClO4 + KNO3 + C2H6O2 = KCl + 2CO2 + 5H2O + N2
41.86% / 36.02% / 22.12%


5NH4ClO4 + 2C2H6O2 = 4CO2 + 16H2O + 2.5N2 + 2.5Cl2
82.55% / 17.45%

Both mixes were tested on a much thinner plate and the results are disappointing still. The AP/Glycol only mix did not seem to fully detonate and left lots of residue.

The following was with 10 gram charges the hole is 10 grams ETN. Cap used is 250mg of ETN with 700mg CHP.

I believe Im going to abandon these mixes until I have some Diethylene glycol and sodium perchlorate, even so in the patent it took one pound to punch a hole in 3/4 inch plate. Maybe some kind of PLX would do the trick.

IMG_0875.JPG - 1.9MBIMG_0874.JPG - 2.1MB
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[*] posted on 16-12-2020 at 03:01
TACP


Every success and also failure moves us forward. In energetic materials, this means that the long journey is basically the goal of the whole endeavor. I see you have enough NH4ClO4. Respectively TACP. Maybe it's time to try Liptex. This is essentially a plasticized TACP.
So more precisely TACP 80% ... NH4ClO4 8% .... Binder 8 - 12%. How to make a quality plastic binder is here. It's the most watched video on LL channel ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euVUa7C5rAM&t=221s
And if you want more powerful sharp Liptex, you can add any ETN ratio. For example ETN 30% ... NH4ClO4 5% ....TACP 53%...binder 12%.

And if you have the option of pressing, you can use 4% of this binder only. The composition is 96 TACP 4 binder. After compression with a pressure of 50 - 100 Kg / cm3, a very compact mass with a density of up to 1.9 g / cm3 is formed. This material can be worked with a knife. Cutting a small pieces. And even drill. By hand, without an electric drill of course. When working, it behaves like a softer plastic. The brisance of such a mass is comparable to TNT.







[Edited on 17-12-2020 by Laboratory of Liptakov]




Safety explosive Alfred Nobel 1867. Safety ecologic detonator Dr. Liptakov 2015, inventor of CHP
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[*] posted on 18-12-2020 at 15:54


Trying a mix of ETN and NC as another potential option for pourable explosives. Using double base smokeless powered, acetone and ETN I made a thick gel in a 3/1 NC/ETN.

Already some potential downsides-it took a lot of acetone to form a 5 gram slurry. It also increased the volume dramatically so this leads me to believe it is not at max density. The volume increase could be do to air being stirred into the mix, and since the mix is so thick not much air was allowed to escape even with lots of agitation.

Anyways ill report the results.
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[*] posted on 1-4-2021 at 16:52


Used NaClO4,DEG, and H20 and a bit of guar gum. I used a cardboard tube of a diameter of 1 inch and about 5 inches long. I tired two different charges and got a partial detonation both times. Any advice? My guess is the diameter is too small, wondering if anyone had any exact information to go off of.
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[*] posted on 2-4-2021 at 02:16


The initiating mightiness is very important. For this water gel. Require the casting 1g ETN. Or high pressed 1g ETN. Or 1.5 - 2g CHP high pressed.

[Edited on 2-4-2021 by Laboratory of Liptakov]




Safety explosive Alfred Nobel 1867. Safety ecologic detonator Dr. Liptakov 2015, inventor of CHP
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papaya
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[*] posted on 2-4-2021 at 17:21


Brighttermite, it's surprizing to me to see just as little damage on your test target from 10g of ETN (not having experience with etn, but knowing that it is powerful though) as on the photo. I've experimented a little bit with different cheddites (sodium chlorate based) and I can assure that 12g of the best mixtures I explored do equal or more damage on the same type of target! Just look at this one as an example https://tube.tchncs.de/videos/watch/1aef96d3-abdf-4f6a-8123-...
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