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Author: Subject: Phenylacetic acid from styrene, sulfur and ammonia
S.C. Wack
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[*] posted on 4-6-2021 at 20:11


Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  
Things like bleach,pool acid,acetic acid,fertilisers,ammonia,caustic,styrene,thinners,btx,acetone/mek/yclohexanone,
esters,alcohols
Can NEVER become listed as it would literally stop consumerism/industry/cleanliness and lifestyle.they might be able to get rid of selling styrene to ppl otc and ban polystyrene single use utensils but polystyrene is here to stay which means styrene will always be one step away if desired.as long as ppl use paint, thinners/alcohols/btx Chems will be around,as long as cars are around btx/hexanes will be around, as long as ppl have swimming pools chlorine and HCL will be around,as long as packaging and surfboards are around styrene will be,as long as sugar and yeast and laws that allow alcohol to not be a schedule 1 narcotic exist alcohols will be around U see where I'm going with this.they CAN'T ban these things.


And what if you're wrong, are you going to give us your address so all the amateur chemists can come beat you with a baseball bat?

You can't even spell HCl, Dr. Chemistium. Just kidding, surely that user name is already taken... toluene, acetone, and MEK are already listed, along with HCl and sulfuric acid...in Cali, cyclohexanone and sodium acetate requires your address, ID, and license plate. No one thought they'd take away cold pills and FREAKING ELEMENTS but they did.

We'll just depolymerize plastic, right on! I'll get on that right after making olivetol from rare lichens and extracting perfumes from soap. We'll all just get business licenses and storefronts, yeah!

Naturally, ordering 5 liters of styrene to a residence in Cheyenne is totally unsuspicious and LE would never have interest in looking at you...it's only $280,000 worth of meth...




"You're going to be all right, kid...Everything's under control." Yossarian, to Snowden
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Fyndium
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[*] posted on 4-6-2021 at 20:58


Well, I ordered 10 liters of styrene to a residence, multiple times, many years ago. And at that time I did not even were aware that also it could be churned into something.

Also, from an European perspective, we never even had cold pills here, except for possibly one single country.

And also, at least in many countries, establishing a business is merely filling a single form, there even was a campaign when it was 100% free to do so and they even gave you money to start-up to encourage new entrepreneurs due to economic crisis and unemployment.
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[*] posted on 5-6-2021 at 14:48


Styrene can be obtained from polystyrene pyrolysis. 1 kg polystyrene gives about 500ml styrene. Best source polystyrene is compact disc container or other TRANSPARENT polystyrene or EPS( It can be smelted with torch or heat gun in steel container).TV, printer monitor cases org printer cartridge from HIPS can be used. HIPS under pyrolysis gives many ethylbenzene and cumene which difficult separate from styrene. Do not use polystyrene marked as PS-FR(17)! It giver hydrogen bromide and bromoorganic compound if pyrolysed. But mix this plastic with lime and ignite at high temperature(700-900C) without air access calcium bromide can obtained(about 3% from plastic weight)

Pyrolysis plant it furnace at waste firewood from steel barrel with a carved bottom, standing on bricks. Pyrolysis reactor is 10L bucket from paint with hole in the cap where screwed threaded pipe on 2 nuts. To the pyrolysis reactor 1 inch coiled pipe length 1.2 meters that goes into a steel container in a bucket of water

Hydrochloric acid 20% can be obtained from PVC pyrolsyis. It crude but suitable for our purposes.

Sodium hydroxide solution can be obtained from salt electrolysis or reaction lime with 10 % soda solution

Sulfhur can be obtained from pyrite or gypsum which reduced at calcium sulfide and oxidized at air in water presence and to yellow solution calcium polysulfide and thiosulpate hydrochloric acid adeded


[Edited on 5-6-2021 by Hexabromobenzene]
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 5-6-2021 at 15:16


Wow ok, but you really didn't do that, you just bought the reagents as usual, no?
You haven't really depolymerised styrene and PVC and so on, at least thats what I hope.

If you really did(I think you're listing listing it for completeness sake), then it would be pretty impressive :o
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[*] posted on 5-6-2021 at 15:30


I did these things. if you have experience it's safe just like working with hydrogen sulfide. Of course it can not do at home and need to use personal protective equipment

Pyrolysis PVC does not leads to dioxins. But burning pvc cable for cooper recycling Yes. But this is common in Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union. However, the case of poisoning was not fixed. Some cases lungs cancer fixed Workers which burned cable many years, but it can be related with smoking

[Edited on 5-6-2021 by Hexabromobenzene]
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[*] posted on 5-6-2021 at 15:49


Quote: Originally posted by Fyndium  

Most clever idea would be to think it all the way through and weld at least two valves into the vessel, so that once it is ready, it can be readily flushed with gas to extract any generated H2S. Opening it manually would be extremely dangerous.

.

After reaction reactor does not have pressure if colled. And excess ammonium fixed hydrogen sulfide
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draculic acid69
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[*] posted on 6-6-2021 at 21:47


Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  


And what if you're wrong, are you going to give us your address so all the amateur chemists can come beat you with a baseball bat?

You can't even spell HCl, Dr. Chemistium. Just kidding, surely that user name is already taken... toluene, acetone, and MEK are already listed, along with HCl and sulfuric acid...in Cali, cyclohexanone and sodium acetate requires your address, ID, and license plate. No one thought they'd take away cold pills and FREAKING ELEMENTS but they did.

We'll just depolymerize plastic, right on! I'll get on that right after making olivetol from rare lichens and extracting perfumes from soap. We'll all just get business licenses and storefronts, yeah!

Naturally, ordering 5 liters of styrene to a residence in Cheyenne is totally unsuspicious and LE would never have interest in looking at you...it's only $280,000 worth of meth...


Toluene,acetone mek, HCL, h2so4 have all been on that list for 30yrs and anyone can still buy them without a dea clearance.every hardware store sells them. Pool acid,drain cleaner,that blue PVC glue(it's mek+cyclohexanone) are all there and there not going anywhere. And if U need to buy sodium acetate... do I need to say it. It's literally two ingredients. I'd also say ordering styrene to any residential included isn't going to get U put on a watchlist or raided by feds(only in America) or all those surfboard makers would be getting raided.
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[*] posted on 7-6-2021 at 01:07


It's true that by today's standards, $280,000 dollars worth of meth is an inconsequential amount, but it is concievable that LE would be interested in such an amount. The hundreds of tons that Mexican Cartels smuggle into the USA each year are hard to intercept, and when the Feds do make an arrest, they have trouble moving up the ladder towards the big shots.

But seriously, what ARE we going to do about the mountains of plastic that are clogging up the planet. The Chinese won't accept our plastic garbage nowadays. They once considered it a valuable resource, but not anymore. I don't know what other countries are doing about waste plastic, but in the USA, we are drowning in it. We haven't figured things out yet.

Perhaps developing a greener method of converting Styrene into Phenylacetic Acid could be considered patriotic.

We are also drowning in PET, a material that was considered very recyclable a few years ago. Could it be recycled into Hydroquinone? Some of the guys have uses for Hydroquinone.



[Edited on 7-6-2021 by zed]
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 7-6-2021 at 02:08


Quote: Originally posted by zed  

But seriously, what ARE we going to do about the mountains of plastic that are clogging up the planet.

Not just the planet, its already coming doww with the rain, its in the bloodstream of newborns, in breast milk, makes up a certain percentage in our excretions, its in the whole food chain, from the bottom up to the largest apex predator, its everywhere.
And its an endocrine disruptor.

But everyone's busy talking about the "evil" CO2.

Making phenylacetic acid, and, I believe some sort of dialkoxy substituted compounds via hydroquinone would be pretty good to get rid of a tiny fraction of all the plastic waste :)

[Edited on 7-6-2021 by karlos³]
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[*] posted on 7-6-2021 at 20:51


Quote: Originally posted by zed  

Perhaps developing a greener method of converting Styrene into Phenylacetic Acid could be considered patriotic.


[Edited on 7-6-2021 by zed]

What to do with high boiling polystyrene pyrolysis fraction(one half of polystyrene), sulfuroorganic wastes from syntesis(as phenylacetic acid mass)? It can be burned but not environmentally friendly
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[*] posted on 8-6-2021 at 00:36


Mmmm. People are fussy about it, but if plastic can't be recovered, repurposed, or recycled... High temperature incineration might be the way to go.

Most plastic is just polymerized hydrocarbons. Nothing that can't be burned to produce CO2, H2O, and energy.

How different is it from burning Deisel or Gasoline?

Chlorinated plastics present problems, but almost all of my personal plastic garbage is HDPE, Styrene, and PET.

If you feed it into a fire, in your high efficiency wood stove, it acts as excellent accelerant.

It's either recycling in some form, or incineration.... Or... landfills.

Sulfides can be oxidized to either sulfate or S, with H2O2.

As per: http://www.xiuzhengrd.com/ejournals/pdf/synthesis/doi/10.105...






[Edited on 8-6-2021 by zed]

[Edited on 8-6-2021 by zed]

[Edited on 8-6-2021 by zed]

[Edited on 8-6-2021 by zed]
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[*] posted on 8-6-2021 at 01:08


Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
WHAAA????????????????? CHEMICALS NOT IN STORES ARE AVAILABLE FROM THE INTERNET?
BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHO KNEW???????????????????????
THE MORE YOU BUY, THE CHEAPER IT IS???????????WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, that's how I feel. Sane people probably think I shouldn't wear my emotions on my sleeve.

And congratulations for telling LE and FW that their product is officially associated with meth manufacture. You're doing everyone a great service.

If one really wants to be Walter White, it would be best to figure out how to make things the right way instead of wasting time making tar. Or go back to pills and RP/I, clomethiazole, or MDA from bleach. If this method was all that, I'm sure Uncle Fester et al. would have let us know a long time ago.

[Edited on 2-6-2021 by S.C. Wack]


Hahaha, well said.
(An aside though how do you make MDA from bleach alone?)
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[*] posted on 8-6-2021 at 01:18


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Quote: Originally posted by zed  

But seriously, what ARE we going to do about the mountains of plastic that are clogging up the planet.

Not just the planet, its already coming doww with the rain, its in the bloodstream of newborns, in breast milk, makes up a certain percentage in our excretions, its in the whole food chain, from the bottom up to the largest apex predator, its everywhere.
And its an endocrine disruptor.

But everyone's busy talking about the "evil" CO2.

Making phenylacetic acid, and, I believe some sort of dialkoxy substituted compounds via hydroquinone would be pretty good to get rid of a tiny fraction of all the plastic waste :)

[Edited on 7-6-2021 by karlos³]


Instead of poohooing plastics constantly (really where’s the challenge? You are shooting fish in barrel) perhaps focus on the extraordinarily large amount of lives plastics have saved (studies put plastics on par with antibiotics from simple food contamination prevention alone ) and on how fucking incredible even simple polyethylene Is.
The amazement that would abound could one take a simple PE shopping bag back 150years.
Plastics are not fucked they are incredible what’s fucked is what stares back at you and I and all of us in the mirror.
Sry Omg super off topic.. ☹️
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