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Ral123
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[*] posted on 31-12-2011 at 03:12
ethyl nitrate


Hi guys. I was wondering what happened to the ethyl nitrate topic. When I google in the net I cant find anything. Wikipedia suggests some ridiculous synthesis with nitryl fluoride. Methyl nitrate is cool but for me its one of the most dangerous substances ever. At 15 °C with sulfuric/nitric60% it gets brutaly oxidised. Has someone tried it? And is it "blow your fingers off" dangerous?
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 31-12-2011 at 03:48


Ethyl nitrate doesn't have the power of nitro and so has has little going for it - its OB is relatively low, though because its viscosity is also low, its VoD is slightly higher than that of nitro.
Preparation is as that for nitro and it's somewhat safer to handle and is very cap-sensitive.


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Ral123
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[*] posted on 31-12-2011 at 03:59


so how would the preparation look like? At 5° i didnt get top insoluble lair. Will the washing be a nightmare like with methyl nitrate?
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 31-12-2011 at 04:06


Quote:
Methyl nitrate is cool but for me its one of the most dangerous substances ever.

If you have a death-wish you can distill methyl nitrate from its solution in 68% HNO<sub>3</sub>!
Nitroglycol, prepared with the same mixed acid as nitro, has 118% the power of nitro and a VoD of ~8200 metres per second.
And it's also less sensitive than nitro!


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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 31-12-2011 at 04:12


I'd forget the simple alcohols if I were you . . .


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Ral123
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[*] posted on 31-12-2011 at 04:14


for me egdn is No1 home stuff for blow things up, but how about overboosted molotov, how about rc fuel when i dont have nm. How about buensen burner(equivelent) with 3000° flame, how about hellfire nitronapalm or ultra reliable easy termobaric from heavily aluminised ethyl nitrate? Btw im also in spudguns :p
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 31-12-2011 at 04:22


Jeez! You sound like a kewl!


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franklyn
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[*] posted on 1-1-2012 at 10:19


so how 'bout

[url][/url]
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[*] posted on 1-1-2012 at 12:24


Simple alcohols tend to have high vapor pressures which make them harder to work with. Their energetic derivatives also typically suffer in "power" due to low density. Have a look at this data from some common simple alcohols which have been converted to the nitrate (from Wikipedia and WolframAlpha):

Methyl nitrate: 1.2g/cc
Ethyl nitrate: 1.14g/cc
Isopropyl nitrate: 1.03g/cc

As they get bigger, the oxygen balance gets worse and they get less dense. Their detonation velocities and brisance also subsequently decrease. It becomes clear that mono-alcohols simply cannot compete well with other modern energetics.

Poly-alcohols, or polyols, are far superior and just as readily available. Here are some simple ones in stock at walmart:

- Ethylene glycol (1,2-ethanediol) distilled from undiluted antifreeze

-Glycerol (1,2,3-propanetriol) as "glycerin" for dry skin

-Erythritol (2R,3S) 1,2,3,4- butanetetraol as a sugar substitute

Notice how each one of these compounds have one hydroxyl group per carbon? This is the same ratio as methanol; when nitrated, all of these compounds have higher densities than methyl nitrate, which is the highest-density simple alcohol nitrate!

Here are some comparisons from Wikipedia:

Methyl Nitrate: 1.2g/cc
EGDN: 1.49g/cc
TNG: 1.6g/cc
ETN: 1.6g/cc

Additionally, propylene glycol distilled from RV/marine antifreeze can be used, but at the severe expense of oxygen balance and a density of only 1.23. Diethylene glycol, triethylene glycol can also be nitrated to the dinitrate but suffer greatly in oxygen balance. I'm not so sure about dipropylene glycol, but it might be worth a try since it seems to be readily available in the cosmetic industry, but is also expected to suffer in both OB and density.

Other polyols like Mannitol, Sorbitol, Xylitol, and even Sucrose can be nitrated. Unfortunately, once compounds have more than about 5 hydroxyl groups, they become very difficult to fully nitrate. Most of the time they remain water-soluble as partial nitrates which are hygroscopic, sticky messes which are nearly impossible to separate. An exception to this is cellulose, which will simply remain as a partially-nitrated solid unless multiple nitrations using anhydrous acids are used.

Of course, if you can get your hands on it, there's always pentaerythritol. Even modern militaries use this one.

Back on topic, you can clearly see that ethyl nitrate is not really worth the hassle unless perhaps you're just synthesizing it as a trophy compound. If you want something (which I imagine you do) that is easier to wash, less volatile, less sensitive, and with higher viscosity, go with a higher-weight polyol.

As a last note, please be careful. You can die of tachycardia after inhaling a low-molecular weight nitrate or from NO2 fumes from a runaway synthesis. Many of the simple alcohol nitrates are also very quick to penetrate skin, inducing the same conditions. You may also pass out into a vasodilator-induced coma long before you can get help to prevent your heart from racing out of control. It would be a frightening way to go...

-DTM


[Edited on 1-1-2012 by DougTheMapper]




Victor Grignard is a methylated spirit.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 1-1-2012 at 12:45


What I like about nitroglycol is its easy preparation coupled with its 'perfect oxygen-balance' ─ which gives it quite a bit more 'Ooomph' (to use a highly technical term) than the other simple esters!


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Ral123
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 02:24


As I sad before I totaly agree with egdn being the N1 explosive. If I just want to blow **** up...I can decompose NaNO3 and get nice anhydrous NO2. Mix on site with some fuel like NB and get like 7000+dv. I was just looking for something that would blow my understandings for "extremely flammable" And be safer then MN. Also I wonder why people make ng. No access to eg? Can ng be a plasticizer for rdx?
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 02:34


Quote:
I can decompose NaNO3 and get nice anhydrous NO2.

No shit? :D

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Ral123
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 02:37


whats wrong?
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 03:09


Don't mind me, Ral123 . . . I'm mad, me!
You know? A total pisser! :o


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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 03:56


Ral123, you really need to do some research into nitrations. Start with COPAE, by davis and search the forum. Why not start with some cellulose nitrate. It will make you reexamine"extremely flammable", whatever that means, and the synthesis and finished product are much less likely to kill your kewl ass. ( Still possible though, breathing NOx = choking death.)

@DTM
Thanks for that informative and well written post on alcohol nitration products.

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by Bot0nist]




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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 04:48


I dont do nc because wikipedia says it can selfignite and I have no idea how stable in time is. Well washed egdn wont realy supprise you. There are nitric esters for every job. To make craters, smash tanks, shoot bullets, make head aches :D , blow up your spudgun :D and im looking for a safe one for high tempreture molotov.
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 04:57


For molotov? It is a pure waste of energetic material, but if you wish so..

I heard that PGDN is very stable, but I won't risk detonation by shock when you throw the molotov.




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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 05:26


Ok, let me get this straight. Your scared of cellulose nitrate, but you wanna go around throwing flaming glass bottles of egdn or pgdn? WTF?



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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 05:34


Darwin award candidate?


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Ral123
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 05:36


It will be a small percentige, slight increase in temp. will let the rest of the fuel to burn cleanly and eficiently. The black smoke is kinda inefficient. I wish I had some of that boron exotic fuels. Btw NM is great for those lucky enough to have it. Large amount of MN/petrol 3/1 will be able to destroy small amount of flammable stuff super quick.
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 05:42


Sorry to be rude, but this is not an improvised weapons forum, its an amateur chemistry forum. Please stfu about homemade weapons or gtfo.



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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 05:43


What kind of things you want to destroy? I hope you are not a kind of terrorist :O



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Ral123
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 05:47


Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
Sorry to be rude, but this is not an improvised weapons forum, its an amateur chemistry forum. Please stfu about homemade weapons or gtfo.
you just made it one :P
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Bot0nist
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 05:51


No, you did with this post. I'm not worried though. Stupid fucking kewls either learn quick around here, or they are shown the door promptly.

Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  
I dont do nc because wikipedia says it can selfignite and I have no idea how stable in time is. Well washed egdn wont realy supprise you. There are nitric esters for every job. To make craters, smash tanks, shoot bullets, make head aches :D , blow up your spudgun :D and im looking for a safe one for high tempreture molotov.




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Ral123
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[*] posted on 2-1-2012 at 06:09


The topic is for deletion I guess
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