Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1    3
Author: Subject: Mad Science at the max, where do you draw the line?
BromicAcid
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2991
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Anxious

biggrin.gif posted on 13-6-2004 at 15:57
Mad Science at the max, where do you draw the line?


Sorry if there is another older thread on this but searching for this topic proved to be difficult.

I was thinking today, "You know what, potassium bifluoride is pretty cheap, maybe I could set up a fluorine generator, use electrolysis, yeah, that's the ticket! Then I could use the fluorine directly, or.... I could react it with xenon to make xenon difluoride and react that with bromate to make perbromates!"

Then I stopped in my tracks, "Do I really want to work with fluorine, it's so toxic, and reactive, and what am I going to keep it in, I'm going to need special alloys and such and new safety equipment and..." So that was the end of that line of thought..... for now.

Regardless, what would all of you consider too crazy to attempt. It used to be that I thought molten NaOH was incredibly dangerous, but now I don my gloves and kick up the burner and I don't give it hardly a second thought, I'm always mindful of the dangers but, things keep going further and further. The distillation of a mixture of KClO4 with H2SO4 under reduced pressure is looking feasable....

Anyone here been tempted to make ethyl perchlorate ;) I know many of you have, and there are innumerable other dangerous ventures that many of us have considered. So what wouldn't you do, what would scare you to attempt? Some of it might get you laughed at or make the readers go "Yeah, I wouldn't do that either..." but it's all in good fun! ;)




Shamelessly plugging my attempts at writing fiction: http://www.robvincent.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
The_Davster
A pnictogen
*******




Posts: 2859
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 13-6-2004 at 16:27


Well, back in my early pyro days I decided to make nitroglycerin. But after I had added the glycerin to the mixed acids I chickened out. I was really freaking out even though I had made TATP before without incident and it is more sensitive than nitro. I was probally fearing it becuase of all the media attention it gets as "incredibly unstable". So I had read on megas site to destroy nitro with a solution of sodium hydroxide and ethanol. But stupidly I neglected to realize that you mix the sodium hydroxide/ethanol mix with the nitro After it has been extracted. So guess what I do... Yup concentrated basic solution poured right into the mixed acids. And of course this shoots acid all over and luckily I was able to jump away without any hitting me. Then due to the heat produced the nitration goes runaway and copius ammounts of NO2 are emmited. It did not detonate luckily.

Keep in mind this was many years ago and I havent slipped or chickened out like that since.

[Edited on 14-6-2004 by rogue chemist]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Darkfire
National Hazard
****




Posts: 292
Registered: 3-1-2003
Location: California
Member Is Offline

Mood: Wondering

[*] posted on 13-6-2004 at 16:39


Hahaha ive sliped like that, i decided to destroy some mn2o7 i made, befor ei flushed it down the drain, i simply ran it under the sink and predictibly, the thing blast boiling h2so4 and kmno4 all over me and the sink...

~H




\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
JustMe
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 111
Registered: 7-8-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 13-6-2004 at 17:35


Ha, ha indeed. Thirty years ago (when it was a lot easier to obtain chemicals and glassware and I was much younger and fool hardy and intensely interested in chemistry as a hobby), I mixed up some salt, potassium dichromate and sulfuric acid in a retort and distilled off Chromyl Chloride (neat dark red liquid resembling Bromine).

The foolish part was putting a little of the liquid in a petri dish (behind a small concrete wall) and allowing a couple of mL of anhydrous alcohol to drip out of a pipette onto it.

Incredible whoooooosh and very high flames. The dumb part? (as if I hadn't already done it) Was pouring water over the wall to put out the flame. You see, Cr02Cl2 reacts explosively with water.... duh! Good thing I had the wall there!

Those were the days. (Even made H2Te... nasty, evil smelling substance... amazing I'm still alive) But even if I could have gotten fluorine, I wouldn't have. More power to you.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Darkfire
National Hazard
****




Posts: 292
Registered: 3-1-2003
Location: California
Member Is Offline

Mood: Wondering

[*] posted on 13-6-2004 at 18:41


Hahaha things like that are like memorys worth having though, little bloopers that we can look back on, with all 10 fingures.



\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BromicAcid
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2991
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Anxious

[*] posted on 13-6-2004 at 18:52


So Rogue Chemist chickened out from nitroglycerine, Darkfire got paranoid from Mn2O7, and JustMe had a mishap with CrO2Cl2 and wouldn't touch fluorine.

Surprisingly enough I kind of have a paranoia of making potassium. I've read stories of superoxides causing explosions unexpectedly and ripping off fingers. Also organic mercury compounds have always been intriguing because of their toxicity, although that is the main reason I don't think I'll ever make dimethyl mercury.

I've never really aborted while already conducting a reaction but I have got those sinking feeling moments where I think something is going to go wrong for sure. Like one time when I was doing electrolysis in nitrobenzene and the two electrodes touched and a huge spark jumped across and the electrodes fused together. I remembered that dinitrotoluene despite it's extremely poor oxygen balance can detonate and in a split second I was totally to paranoia. Also I worry about oxidizers at high temps, for example, I would not heat chlorates to decompose and form perchlorates. Also molten nitrates are freaky, got some on a glove once and it instantly burst into flame. I also worry that I'll heat them too high and a catalytic breakdown might ensue resulting in deflagration of the mixture.... jeeze, I sound like a worry wart..... :P

So where does everyone else draw the line, what won't you do in the name of mad science?




Shamelessly plugging my attempts at writing fiction: http://www.robvincent.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Cyrus
National Hazard
****




Posts: 397
Registered: 24-4-2004
Location: Ancient Persia
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 13-6-2004 at 19:51


I don't mind working with things that are corrosive, like conc. H2SO4, molten NaOH, etc- it's just skin (usually) that you can lose.

I would not worry a bit about peroxides from potassium and other "tame" stuff, like thermites, black powder, burning most liquids, etc. However, I draw the line at nitroglycerin and similar stuff. Haven't made any of that.
Yet...:P

I don't mind bad smells.
Unless they are brain damaging.

I like very hot/cold temperatures. As long as I am not the object at the high temperatures.

I like high/low pressures. ie water rockets- I can remember once when a rocket sprang a leak with a big pow sound. I just stood there, seeing that nothing would happen (I knew the rocket had a weak spot) while my friend went into air raid mode, covered his ears, and bounded about 10 yards away, before he realized that the rocket had not actually done much besides leak water.:D
But then again, he has had rockets
explode in his closed garage while he is in there, and then put (small) craters in his roof.

I try not to work too much with compounds that will lower my IQ a lot,
or kill me, or fill me with glass/metal shards. I wouldn't mind flourine, but I would have to be very sure that the apparatus was going to hold.

And I am PLANNING to do some stuff with molten nitrates.

EDIT: I like high volts, but not high watts.
I hate radioactive things. They give me the creeps. Is Barium Carbonate radioactive? I have some, how should I store it?

[Edited on 14-6-2004 by Cyrus]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
DDTea
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 940
Registered: 25-2-2003
Location: Freedomland
Member Is Offline

Mood: Degenerate

[*] posted on 13-6-2004 at 21:09


I'm scared of Dimethyl Sulfate. Yes, it's a common and mundane chemical... but it's a vicious carcinogen and a nasty nasty poison.

On that note, I'm scared of Mustards too--sulfur, nitrogen, sesqui, all of them. I just don't like carcinogens. However, I wouldn't mind attempting the Phosgene Oxime synthesis.

Poisons don't scare me so much--the trick is to just avoid exposure; and if you are exposed, the treatment is often straight forward. Furthermore, work only in tiny amounts--this is a given. I am terrified of carcinogens and mutagens though...I don't like the thought of getting some freaky deforming and uncurable disease later in life, or having children born without arms and missing half their face..

Highly Toxic Organophosphates are things I don't want to deal with. The actual poisoning is not what scares me, but the long-term physical and mental effects of them.

Explosives are a no-go for me. I hate the thought of losing fingers.

Basically, as long as it won't cause long-term permanent damage to me, I will go for it. Death doesn't count, as the threat of it just adds to the thrill :D
View user's profile View All Posts By User
IvX
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 112
Registered: 14-4-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 14-6-2004 at 06:43


I've made most 'unstable' explosives except ethyl perchlorate.Thought about making percholric acid but I only made it as far a getting the KCLO4 out of the bag :)

That about it unless you count the time I stuck a cigeret in a pile of AP(to this day I still have no idea how it got there).
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Theoretic
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 770
Registered: 17-6-2003
Location: London, the Land of Sun, Summer and Snow
Member Is Offline

Mood: eating the souls of dust mites

[*] posted on 14-6-2004 at 07:14


Hmmm, you don't need special alloys to handle fluorine. Monel metal, nickel or just plain copper will do. ;) If you want to make it by electrolysis, you would use graphite electrodes and Cu/Ni/monel apparatus... just my ideas. :)
I don't know anything so dangerous I can do that I wouldn't dare trying, so I don't have a problem. :D




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Oxydro
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 152
Registered: 24-5-2004
Location: NS, Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: distracted

[*] posted on 14-6-2004 at 13:06


Pretty much the only things I wouldn't do, are work with chemicals that might do brain damage, carcinogens, and mutagens, and stay for long periods around significant radioactivity. Plus I'd be damn careful making very large batches of anything explosive.

I don't think there are any really hard rules though, I'd do anything if it was fun enough and I thought I'd get away with it.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Darkfire
National Hazard
****




Posts: 292
Registered: 3-1-2003
Location: California
Member Is Offline

Mood: Wondering

[*] posted on 14-6-2004 at 13:28


Large amounts of explosives dont scare me, its the middle of small and big that scares me, i dont wanna lose a hand id rather go in one blast.



\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
hodges
National Hazard
****




Posts: 467
Registered: 17-12-2003
Location: Midwest
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2004 at 16:23


I don't work with poisons - especially the ones you can't even tell you've been exposed to until it is too late. Granted, things like NaOH and HNO3 are poisons, but if you spill a drop of these on you you'll have no trouble knowing it before it is too late. Something like copper sulfate may be somewhat poisionous, but if you get a small quantity in a cut or in your mouth accidentally its not going to kill you. I won't mess with lead salts (lead metal is okay) or mercury or cyanides (cyanide complexes like FeCN OK). I tend to fear organic chemicals, because I know little about them. Also many are volatile and I have a fear of the vapor catching on fire, say from a leak in a storage container.

I'm generally not afraid to make explosives, even very unstable ones like NI3 and Ag3N. I just assume it could and probably will explode at any time and accordingly take precautions and make very small (0.1g or less) amounts. Likewise thermites (1g or less - I would do more if I had a place to experiment outside).

I bought some sodium on E-Bay and have messed with it. I've also made my own sodium by electrolysis of NaOH. However, I find I have to be so careful when working with sodium that I don't really enjoy doing it very often. Calcium is fun though. I'll likely never mess with white phosphorous due to the toxicity and fire hazard of dropping tiny pieces.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
The_Davster
A pnictogen
*******




Posts: 2859
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 14-6-2004 at 18:19


I just realized my first post was kinda off topic:P so...
I dont mind working with explosives, I never make more of any then can be used in a few sensitivity tests and other types of testing. Surprisingly I never really got into making large charges like some do. I would probally do larger except I dont really have an area for suitable testing.
I absolutely will not work with carcinogens, mutagens, or extremely toxic compounds. Despite benzene being so very usefull it is just something that I have set a limit on and told myself I will not work with it unless it is in a professional/university lab, not my basement one. Any cyanide compound I simply will not work with under any circumstances.
Radioactive substances, I will work with any that only emmit alpha, never with any that emmit gamma or neutron and substances that emmit beta I would work with only if really necessary.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BromicAcid
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2991
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Anxious

[*] posted on 14-6-2004 at 18:38


Out of all the chems I have, my white phosphorus gives me the heebie-jeebies more then anything. My 5 kg of KClO4 is pretty intimidating as well.

So Theoretic, I remembered the name Monel metal as being one of the choice materials for working with F2 however I forgot the composition, it's mostly nickel? I might be able to fabricate something from nickel. I know you're supposed to run a steady stream of F2 though it to make an unreactive surface coating but other then that Ni would work on its own? Then react the F2 with Co and make CoF3 which I can later decompose with heat to form F2 at will.... (Theoretically of course, in case I get over my paranoia ;) )

Seems many people don't like poisons or especially mutagens. I don't blame you. I've never really shown much concern for them though in relation to the dangers they pose.
Quote:

Is Barium Carbonate radioactive? I have some, how should I store it?

I don't think it is to any extent worth noting. Mine is still in the paper bag it came in from the pottery supply although I would prefer a wide mouth HDPE jar. Just remember soluble barium salts are toxic and make you sick pretty quick.

Boiling sulfuric acid makes me nervous....




Shamelessly plugging my attempts at writing fiction: http://www.robvincent.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Saerynide
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 954
Registered: 17-11-2003
Location: The Void
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ionic

[*] posted on 15-6-2004 at 00:03


For me, I wont mess with extremely toxic stuff like cyanides, lead salts, or mercury. Carcinogens also scare me. I hate the thought of being destined to die 20 years down the road without even knowing it. Explosives scare me the most though. The thought of dealing with something that can blow up anytime in my face and take parts of me with it is just too horrible.
I don't like halogens either. Chlorine has left me forever scared of it, but I'll use it if I have to (just very hesitantly and nervously). Iodine isnt so bad, but Im still kinda edgy around it. Br and F are not things I even wanna touch.

PS: Boiling drain cleaner is VERY scary shit :o




"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to... satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Cyrus
National Hazard
****




Posts: 397
Registered: 24-4-2004
Location: Ancient Persia
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 15-6-2004 at 10:39


I have to say, carcinogens/mutagens/randomevilthingstoyourbodygens scare me too. Man am I careful while handling my CrO3! It's stored in a glass bottle in a plastic bag on a shelf with a special safety lip to keep it from falling off.

Insidious gasses like HCN are bothering, but I like chlorine, and am looking for some sodium bromide to make bromine.
And if "plain old" nickel will take fluorine, I might have to get some calcium fluoride from the pottery store. :D Not yet though...




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Theoretic
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 770
Registered: 17-6-2003
Location: London, the Land of Sun, Summer and Snow
Member Is Offline

Mood: eating the souls of dust mites

[*] posted on 16-6-2004 at 01:25


Monel metal is mostly nickel and copper, with some other stuff, for better mechanic properties.
Nickel gets an inert fluoride coating when in contact with fluorine pretty quickly, copper too. Apparently Monel is preferred because it forms a stronger layer, but let me just Google a bit... :P
Ah yes, steel will work also. :cool::cool::cool:
Inthis order from least to most resistant : (but all will work fine, even Cu vessels are used for electrolysis and subsequent handling) copper, steel, nickel, Monel metal.
Graphite electrodes (NOT carbon) are used.
If you want to make something with it, make OF2 by reacting with an alkali superoxide. Much better that the traditional method of reacting with alkali, yield twice as big for fluorine spent.
Fluorine is easily detectable by odour, at very low concentrations, namely 20 ppb, which is 50 times less than the maximum tolerable concentration for 8 hours every day. :D
Now I hope that disspelled your paranoia. ;)
Good luck, and send us some pics of the weird and wonderful yellow gas. :)

[Edited on 16-6-2004 by Theoretic]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
axehandle
Free Radical
*****




Posts: 1065
Registered: 30-12-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline

Mood: horny

[*] posted on 16-6-2004 at 03:55


For me, I draw the line at nerve agents, strong carcinogens or poisons, and highly radioactive materials. Large HE destructive devices goes here as well.

I also don't do anything that at the given time has the possibility of hurting anyone else apart from me.




My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35

\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Star
Harmless
*




Posts: 14
Registered: 8-1-2004
Location: Crozet Islands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Closing Edge

[*] posted on 16-6-2004 at 07:44


For me there are no limits.

The only limit i can think of is apparatus aquisition and stuf,which comes down to Ching Ching.And there are always enough ways to get to the Ching Ching.Why ever would madscience be --=Mad=--science.The people in the labs would be more mad than you guys,since they WILL work with carcinogens and poisens and the like,and you all will not.

Wanna draw lines? Get a pensil and start writing.

But, man i Do have respect for all those people writing in this thread about the experiments and synthesis's described below...

'WOW'

~Notoriously AWEsome~




Crazy litlle mad angry edgy precious malicious amateurs,...hihihi
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
axehandle
Free Radical
*****




Posts: 1065
Registered: 30-12-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline

Mood: horny

[*] posted on 16-6-2004 at 08:06


Quote:

For me there are no limits.

I don't believe you. Would you, say, create a nuclear device and detonate it in your house if you could?




My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35

\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Saerynide
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 954
Registered: 17-11-2003
Location: The Void
Member Is Offline

Mood: Ionic

[*] posted on 16-6-2004 at 08:44


You seem extremely cocky... Before you start calling us whimps, consider the fact that, maybe some of us understand the value of one's life. Moreover, maybe some of us cannot afford to risk those around us? :mad:



"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to... satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Star
Harmless
*




Posts: 14
Registered: 8-1-2004
Location: Crozet Islands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Closing Edge

[*] posted on 16-6-2004 at 10:28


Wow Ms. Saernyde,Please lets keep it 'friendly'[hehe] .Cocky , i think ,is somewhat animate...I am not some kind of beast running around ,showing of my ass...

I ,seriously, didnt ment to call you all whimps.I admire the experiments and the synthesis that you all ,including you Ms.saernide and Mr. axehandle , described and carried out.I only can dream of the chemicals and the aparatus that yall have and therefore you may be having a point when you would say ' you wouldnt understand the dangers' .
But I dont think, you or anbody else could better understand the risks than me per se,because this varies from person to person.

I think i have seen enough~ to understand,at least seen more than some others,the dangers of this kind of a thing.

I just wanted to point out that you dont have to be a madman to be a madscientist.

There all kinds of furnuture and apparatus that can protect you .If i would be able to protect myself to a certain degree, no danger could stop me from synthesizing any compound, and no ,not even a nuclear RARA~ ,because the risk simply would be reduced to a minimal.
And off course not~ ,i would in no way detonate the nuc' anywhere ,anytime!

The nuclear RARA simply wouldnt be much of a fun , to be honest.Should I,because i can make somekind of conventional explosive,build a huge bomb with it and detonate it in front of my house???

Interesting though, would be to use somekind of nuclear energy to induce electricity, smallsize!
Radiation is to be shielded off,off course.

And ,almost forgot,Watch Out for the car that is doing a 100 miles,it could kill you.This doesn't mean you stop walking along highways to get to your house,or does it?And if you werent ,this wouldnt mean you would walk a midst the road.Just watch out for the car that is going fast and even more for the car that is going faster.

Sorry for the miss-spelling...


[Edited on 16-6-2004 by Star]




Crazy litlle mad angry edgy precious malicious amateurs,...hihihi
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
axehandle
Free Radical
*****




Posts: 1065
Registered: 30-12-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline

Mood: horny

[*] posted on 16-6-2004 at 10:41


Wow, Mr Mis-spell... grow up. We were (although I can only speak for myself) merely opposing your statement that you had NO limits (which is logically impossible).

Edit: Besides, Saerynide is a Ms, not a Mr.


[Edited on 2004-6-16 by axehandle]




My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35

\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Star
Harmless
*




Posts: 14
Registered: 8-1-2004
Location: Crozet Islands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Closing Edge

[*] posted on 16-6-2004 at 10:46


I havent.



Crazy litlle mad angry edgy precious malicious amateurs,...hihihi
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
 Pages:  1    3

  Go To Top