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watson.fawkes
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[*] posted on 14-2-2009 at 18:17
@Vlad


First you say this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
I know the procedure and have performed it dozens of times; it is repeatable. I am unwilling to publish it [...]
Then you say this:
Quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
The photos come from an alchemist on an alchemy forum. The procedure is probably incomplete, and at first glance seems not to produce anything special. However it is my belief the alchemist left his secret 'solvent' out that reduces (according to the philosophy) metals to their prime matter/state. As I see it chemically, without the solvent, you don't get to the state where the transmutation happens.
But for the curious the recipe is below. [... <i>recipe elided</i> ...] The clue is where he said "digest completely solution should be lime green". This normally doesn't happen.
If you're talking about two different experiments, then I'm still waiting for the one you've performed and reproduced, because it's clear that the recipe you posted isn't it.

If you're still talking about the same thing, perhaps you could "clarify" the lies.
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[*] posted on 14-2-2009 at 23:51


Sedit, I think as long as vlad keeps wearing a KICK ME sign on his back, people are not going to be able to resist stopping by and putting the boot in.

This thread is an attractive nuisance.

Like rubbernecking at the scene of a five car flaming crash on the interstate.

Your perfectly good thread will be there when this thread is a distant bad memory.

You see, we discuss science all the time on this forum but we get very few opportunities to discuss utter bullshit such as this, with someone who hasn't the common sense to know when he is unbelievably wrong.




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Vlad
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[*] posted on 15-2-2009 at 03:09


Quote:
Originally posted by Blind Angel
Now you might say, yes but i may have fused together two nuclei. Copper is a Z=29 and gold is a Z=79, the 50 Protons in that might come from something in my solution, well you do have Nitrogen (Z=7), Oxygen (Z=8), Hydrogen (Z=1), Chloride (Z=17) and Sodium (Z=11) and, let's push it farther, Silicium (Z=14) and Boron (Z=5) from the borosilicate glass of the test tube. The is not a single one with a Z=50m so it'd require multiple fusion, which is very unlikely. I don't know though how to calculate the energy needed for a fusion, I know that you need to take in account the repulsive force of the electromagnetic force, and the strong force dissociation and re association. It's over my capacity, but I'm guessing that if even stars have a hard time doing this, it'd be very improbable to do in a test tube using standard household equipment.


I think it's fusion or zero point energy.
Another possibility is the way it's described in alchemical texts. They say metals are composed of mulitple parts, and these decompose and recombine.
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[*] posted on 15-2-2009 at 03:15


I just saw this too looking for somethin else in Hudson's lecture. Seems relevant to energy needed to change atomic structure.
Quote:

Anyway, if you'll move it down where we can read together, we're going to read some portions of this that are really important to understand. Move it on down a little further where I can point at it. Okay. Let's read this here, beginning right here. "It is now known that the atomic nucleus is a more or less spherical object, whose diameter is about a few fermis, a unit of measure equal to one quadrillionth of a meter, or simply 10-15 meter." Now that's tiny, okay? "Electrons orbit the nucleus at a distance of about 100,000 fermis. (For comparison, the radius of the moon's orbit is only about 30 times greater than the diameter of the earth.)" So we think the moon's a long ways out there, but relative to the earth, it's very close. You take an atom, the electrons are way the heck and gone away from the nucleus. "Packed in this fermi-size nucleus is nearly all of the mass of an atom and all it's positive electric charge. The mass of the nucleus comes mainly from nucleons. Protons carry the positive charge. The structure of the nucleus arises from two types of interactions: strong and electromagnetic. As a result of the strong interaction, or nuclear force, protons bind to neutrons and to each other. The nuclear force binds nucleons very tightly [but acts over a very short range]". Okay, now, this is old hat for you people who took physics, but this is very important, to most of you. "To separate two neutrons that are one fermi apart, for instance, requires an energy of about one million electron volts". Now this is the standard thinking that you were taught in school. Now, "On the other hand, only about 10 electron volts is needed to disassociate two nucleons that are 10 fermis apart". So, the strong force only works over very short distances, okay? And once those nuclei start coming the least little bit apart, now the glue no longer adheres.
"As a result of the electromagnetic interaction, or Coulomb force," now this is the repulsive force, the "protons repel other protons, although the Coulomb force is weaker than the nuclear force, it acts over a much longer range". So "If two protons are one fermi apart, the Coulomb force is about 100 times weaker than the nuclear force. Yet at a distance of 10 fermis the coulomb force is about 10 times stronger than the nuclear force."

Now, you begin to understand what's happening here? These foreign nuclei no longer are glued together like they are supposed to be glued together. They actually want to come apart on their own. The force that's inside that nucleus that is pushing apart is very weak compared to the force that's holding them together, but when they become deformed all the rules break down.

And so we're taught in school that the nucleus takes a million electron-volts to push it apart, but in fact, this phenomena is not, doesn't hold true when you're talking about deformed nuclei. Okay? Now here it is in Scientific American, okay, it's very serious. Now that's the basis of what we're dealing with. Let's go to the next paper.


Edit: This is what I was looking for:
Quote:
Okay there is a man by the name of Max Planck. You all remember Max Planck? About the turn of the century, 1906, he came with a little thing called little "h" that you have to put in all your wave computations because if you don't it isn't accurate. That's Planck's frequency. When Max Planck died he still couldn't tell us why you have to use Planck's constant. He just knew that that was the number it took to balance the equation, if you didn't use it, it didn't work. But he came up with this phenomena called the quanta. Well what caused him to come up with this is he encountered this phenomena I've got pictured up here. As you come across the electro-magnetic spectrum from the tower waves, radio waves, microwaves, when you approach the ultra-violet, you find that this energy right here, and he actually has this backwards according with how it's depicted today, as you come from these long wavelengths going to short wavelengths in this direction, that literally this is called black body radiation. This is the energy that emits from a perfectly absorbing black body. Okay and it builds and collapses and then the solar energy light spectrum is over on the left side and it collapses, and the two don't come together, and he was really disturbed of why don't these two peaks just run together like this. Why do they come up and just collapse? And what he was encountering is the electro-magnetic zero point. This is what I'm telling you. And I'm telling you the same thing he was telling you except I'm telling it to you with a different perspective.

It was just to the... if you go on a electro-magnetic charge, you go from 100 electron-volts to 10 electron-volts to 1 electron-volts, and then you can't go any further than that. Because in the real world there's 2.3 children in the average household in America. Show me the .3 child, I'd like to see him. There is no .3 child. On a macro scale there's 2.3 but on an individual family no family has .3. They have 2 or they have 3, but there's no .3. In the real world there's one positive electron and there's one negative electron, but there's nothing less than one. And so as you come 100, 10, 1, you can't go to .5 or .1 or .001 electro-volts because there's no such thing in the real world. Now you can put anything on a chart, but in the real world at 1 it all ends. There's plus one and there's minus one. And what I want to know is where's the zero point, and it's between plus one and minus one. That's really easy to figure out. And so if you come down here from 100 to 10 to 1, then you have to turn around and go back plus 1, or minus 1, actually it's minus 1, minus 10, minus 100 and it goes back. Now if you pick up the electro-magnetic spectrum and you look at it you'll find absorption spectroscopy and emission spectroscopy all on the same chart. But they're not exactly the same, they're slightly offset because it's a logarithmic chart and where this turns around and goes back is where the electro-magnetic zero point is and it just happens to be dead center where these two won't reconcile. Next slide. And in fact what happens is as this turns around you get something that looks about like this. You get a singularity. It's where it literally turns around and starts to come back and at the point where it perfectly turns there's actually a singularity. Because in reality it literally turns and runs off in another dimension and then comes out of that dimension and continues on. The two miss each other by Planck's frequency, they don't touch. That's the width of the frequency. And that's what it looks like, that's literally coming up and turning and running down into another dimension and coming out of that dimension and continuing on. It's where another dimension intersects. It's where time intersects the electro-magnetic spectrum and it intersects at the electro-magnetic zero point.

Where do you find that? You find it at the area where matter exists, you find it at the temperatures where you exist. To the right is the ionization spectrum, to the left is the ultra . . . . is the microwave, but it's in this spectrum, in the middle, where the zero point is. And that's what you'll find out is that God, or the electro-magnetic zero point is within you. That's where it is. It's within all life. It's what is life. It's what makes up life. It's what makes up matter. All physicists are looking for that singularity. They're trying to crunch waves tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter together until they literally. . . ., and they're going way out past deep gamma trying to crunch those waves together and get them where they stack on top of themselves. But the amazing thing is at the electro-magnetic zero point they literally turn and run off, and relative to you they stack on top of themselves. It's inherent in the system that this singularity occurs at the electro-magnetic zero point. And all physicists are looking for the creation way out in deep gamma and right back here at null, it's where it all came from. It's the primal soup. It's where particles are born out of that vacuum energy every day. Electrons disappear into it and reappear out of it continually. It is the creative force. It's where it all came from. And if you get yourself shrunk down where you could climb inside that dark slit right there, where literally matter, the wave, no matter how long it is, it's running away from you so it's stacking on top of itself relative to you, if you could get inside of there, you would be one with God.


[Edited on 15-2-2009 by Vlad]
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[*] posted on 15-2-2009 at 04:01


watson.fawkes

Quote:
If you're talking about two different experiments, then I'm still waiting for the one you've performed and reproduced, because it's clear that the recipe you posted isn't it.

If you're still talking about the same thing, perhaps you could "clarify" the lies.


The pictures of transmuted gold and the Red Gold I made many times are two different things yes. I don't know how to make the transmuted gold, all I have are the 'recipes' from the alchemist and the pictures. I can share those. I already did, but to my knowledge no one has reproduced this. Nobody seemed interested either.
I haven't tried reproducing it yet because honestly I'm not that experienced in chemistry (you noticed and know that already) and have no lab (main thing) and don't want to boil down sulfuric acid without a good hood in a lab. Besides I'm pretty convinced somethin is left out because I tried getting the the lime green solution by doing the copper and gold dissolution together as described and it didn't give the lime green solution. The 'solvent' is left out.
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[*] posted on 15-2-2009 at 06:42


Well i red the second part, there is one big error in there, first of all eV are not a measurement of charge they are a measurement of energy, and yes in nature there is partial charge. Quarks (if you don't know what they are you should maybe look them up) have partial charge ±1/3, ±2/3, ±1 (for lepton). Now has the other end of the spectrum, I'd personally wouldn't go there since the energy is too great, we have the atmosphere to protect us from that.

Also, if you post a complete protocol of what you did, I'll personally try it, and analyze it in an ICP or Atomic Absorption or the two, so you'll have exact value of what it is.
(It will depend though of my free time, but I'll try)




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Vlad
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 09:10


http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/PureNothing.htm

Pure Nothing
by Barry Carter and Don Nance

You can easily make your own "pure nothing" from gold, using a method
that I discovered in 1997. In December of 2005, Don Nance made some
white precipitate of gold using the Peroxide Method which I first described at:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/...h/goldto-m.htm

This method is simple enough that I first did it on my back porch
using chemicals I purchased at the hardware store and food co-op. The
first indicator that this process is converting the metal into the
ORMUS state is the green color of the gold chloride as you can see in
this picture that I took when I was developing this method in 1997:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/greengold.jpg

Unfortunately, I did not take any pictures of the white precipitate
that I made from gold; however, Don Nance did take pictures of white
gold precipitates from various methods that you can see at:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/...oldMethods.jpg

In the picture above, the white gold precipitate in the bottle on the
right was made using the Peroxide Method.

Don also wrote up a more comprehensive version of the Peroxide Method
back in June of 2002:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/wgpowder.htm

Using this method, Don made some white powder gold in December of
2005. Then he redissolved it in hydrochloric acid and sent it to Acme
Analytical Laboratories in Vancouver, BC for assay. He also included
samples of the Red Devil Lye and Smart Brand food grade HCl that he
used in the process of making the white gold powder. Acme did the
assays and sent them to Don on January 10, 2006 as you can see at:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/AcmeGT1205.jpg

Don makes and sells the white gold powder (as a wet precipitate)
under the name "Golden Tear" so the assay on this substance is named
GT1205. The lye assay is named RDL and the HCl assay is named SMARTFG.

I have put these three assays into a spread sheet where you can
compare the elements that show up in the assays with the unassayable
ORMUS gold:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/AcmeGT1205.xls

Notice that only 2.74 parts per billion of gold shows up in this
precipitate which was made almost entirely from 99.99% pure gold
metal. The only other components were lye, HCl and hydrogen peroxide
with whatever contaminants were in these components.

Also notice that, if you exclude the sodium and chlorine from the
assay, only 979.25 parts per billion of other elements show up.

This means that this assay shows the white gold precipitate to be
99.9999% pure nothing, with only 0.0001 percent of the total assay
showing up as something that is identifiable.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 09:53


Quote: Originally posted by Vlad  

You can easily make your own "pure nothing" from gold, using a method
that I discovered in 1997.

Really Vlad? You can turn gold into pure nothing---you're surely on to a winner there. . .
Have you applied for a patent yet?
I think, though, I'll stick with my tried and tested method of making nothing as it involves less effort than your method. . .

[Edited on 6-7-2009 by hissingnoise]
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 10:57


Sounds like a waste of gold to me.

Send me all the pure gold you want though, I'll return pure nothing back. :P;)




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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 11:02


Quote: Originally posted by Vlad  
If you are so certain it's all BS why don't you try to reproduce it just to show it's all wrong and that it's just a nanocluster. I've seen pictures of the green goldchloride solution and if you can get that well then you might be able to show you have what you believe to be ordinary gold nanoparticles. But most of those who claim it's BS can't or won't even produce the green goldchloride solution. What does that say about their analytical and logical skills in chemistry then?

[Edited on 5-2-2009 by Vlad]


It doesn't work like that, prove to us that it's not BS. We'll need more than "oh some chemist that's on some mailing list blah blah blah I don't have any hard evidence."
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 11:04


Quote: Originally posted by Vlad  
I have no reference. I know this from a mailing list I was/am subscribed onto and where chemists are subscribed on too as well, and some of them made the grass green goldchloride solution Hudson refers to as being a monoatomic chloride and subsequently precipitated a white fluffy flocculant/precipitate from it that when dried and annealed is said to be gold orme. So obviously the boiling down steps in the patent to reach a green solution do work.


HAHAHA! That's rich.
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 11:26


I'm astonished this topic still even exists. FWIW, I was saturated with illegitimate substances when I posted it and now find it embarassing. If a mod would be so kind as to remove it... thanks.
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 11:34


Instead of the normal insults and such that you already have enough of I would like an explination for the discrepancies in the analysis of the product compaired to the starting NaOH material also analyzed.

First up is Al as there is much less in the product then there is in the Lye that formed the product even though Aluminum hydroxide should more then likely follow any action taken here. Also Copper and many other materials seem to vanish in the final product but Phosphorus remains untouched and makes it thru whole from the starting lye.

All this means very little just observation but what does bother me ALOT is the Sodium Chloride content went up dramaticly suggesting that his Gold solution is nothing more then Salt water. Why is there so much added NaCl?

All the lack of gold in the final product truely shows is that there is a huge possibility that your tossing out your baby with the bath water somewhere along the line as gold is not the most reactive substance in the world but it does behave in funny ways when made into a salt. It is a huge possibility assuming this person even tryed to make it out of Gold.

Sorry but that analysis does not have me sold.





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Vlad
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 13:36


Well one way to test it would be to take the final product, dry it, and convert it back to metal. There are techniques for this but I don't feel comfortable putting this on this forum that shows up in Google. Nevertheless anyone interested can readily find them with some simple research and reading.

Such a technique was tried on a source material that is commonly assumed/known to be devoid of precious metals, and was sent to a lab and analysed to contain 1.4 oz/ton gold and 279,408 oz/ton silver, among others.

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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 13:40


Quote:
All this means very little just observation but what does bother me ALOT is the Sodium Chloride content went up dramaticly suggesting that his Gold solution is nothing more then Salt water. Why is there so much added NaCl?


Because of the process to make it. It's explained in one of the links.

You basically alternate between lowering the pH by adding HCl, dissolving any precipitate of gold, and then raising the pH with NaOH carefully and slowly, forming a new precipitate, several times, and this forms NaCl repeatedly.

This process apparently works to make the gold come out as a different colored precipitate after a few precipitations, and eventually it ends up white, and assays as nothing.
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 13:45


To see this performed in a lab would make me highly interested but I feel that a true lab setting of this 'rematerialization' or whatever you want to call it won't be done anytime soon. I just feel that theres no proof that the assayed material was even made out of gold to start with so the claims have little substance don't you think?




Knowledge is useless to useless people...

"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story before."~Maynard James Keenan
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 13:52


Well one way would be to make it yourself. It's not hard and the chemicals are cheap, except for the gold (but even 0.1 gram could work and that is not a lot of money, it's currently about 40 euro for a gram as I bought some recently) and the assays.

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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 14:25


It's not even worth the effort, the burden of proof for this is on you.
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 14:40


Proof for what? I don't agree with all that is claimed about the material. I have my own interests regarding this, and some things I certainly don't intend to put online. I think the assays are telling and the process for producing this product is even included. What more do you want? For me to shoot pictures of a professional lab and attach the resume of the scientists who performed the process?
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 15:38


Vlad all the assays tell is whats in drano and a salt water solution this man is selling. The pictures and the resumes will help no doubt but they are also no definitive proof.

Vlad I love a good experiment one way or another but for me to entrench myself into any project the information has to be there and clearly laid out and besides what you feel the information is just not there other then folks such as your self saying..."It works" with the majority that have tryed it professionaly saying it does not. I have to chose where I get my sources from and I chose the CLEAN well equiped labs over anyone on this forum playing in there basement anyday(no offense people you understand).

I can not afford the Au, analytical grade chemicals, or the equipment to perform an operation of this standards to prove or disprove it. Trying to attempt it would do nothing but skew the truth even more then it already is. This man is selling salt water Vlad and the assay proves it yet folks are paying god knows what and someone from the Better Business bureau or what ever agency controls this sort of fraud should look into him right away and either force him to prove himself and his 'process' or shut him down from stealing money from the ignorent.





Knowledge is useless to useless people...

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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 15:58


Where are the sources for those you claim tried it professionally saying it does not work? I have heard just as much of professional sources with a well equipped lab saying it does work.
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 16:23


Quote: Originally posted by Vlad  
I have heard just as much of professional sources with a well equipped lab saying it does work.


name one.

[Edited on 7-7-09 by UnintentionalChaos]




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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 16:41


"Where are the sources for those you claim tried it professionally saying it does not work? I have heard just as much of professional sources with a well equipped lab saying it does work."

I believe I posted some earlyer in this threed matter of fact.

[Edited on 7-7-2009 by Sedit]





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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 19:18


Quote: Originally posted by Vlad  
Proof for what? I don't agree with all that is claimed about the material. I have my own interests regarding this, and some things I certainly don't intend to put online. I think the assays are telling and the process for producing this product is even included. What more do you want? For me to shoot pictures of a professional lab and attach the resume of the scientists who performed the process?


I don't really understand why you insist on posting pseudo-science crap on a forum dedicated to chemistry. You know, chemistry is real science. An alchemy forum filled with people who burn sage, arrange magic crystals in their rooms, and believe that homeopathy is valid medicine would be more appropriate.

This thread is the equivalent of going onto an astronomy forum and discussing astrology; or going onto a physics forum and discussing UFOs.



[Edited on 7-7-2009 by setback]
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 20:14


This thread was open more than long enough.



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