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woelen
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[*] posted on 18-12-2015 at 11:30


Quote: Originally posted by User123  
Bfesser pissed off just about every older member of this forum with his excessive pestering and getting up people's noses, so for the sake of peace and quiet I hope that you DON'T take ANY leaves out of his book. It's quite concerning that you see the disaster that he was as in some way 'inspirational'.

I can't say that this seems like a good move at all. You're a teenager, aren't you? Perhaps someone with more age and maturity, who doesn't seek to emulate bfesser would be better, or not another disaster in the making.

I don't mean to be negative, but you've given me reason to be.

[Edited on 18-12-2015 by User123]

With this attitude you do not even give him a chance!

zts, welcome to the crew!




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[*] posted on 18-12-2015 at 11:55


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
the emergency bottle of brandy is under the sink.

Erm, it Was.

Something got spilt whilst visiting the EM topic, so i went looking for the dustpan and brush.

Couldn't find them, so looked other places, including under the sink.

The rest is pistory.




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[*] posted on 18-12-2015 at 15:14


^^^beat me to the brandy damn it



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[*] posted on 18-12-2015 at 16:10


zts16 this thread is an excellent start, thank you very much in advance for your time and effort in keeping this forum the great resource that it is. I really appreciate it.



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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 07:42


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
Quote: Originally posted by User123  
Bfesser pissed off just about every older member of this forum with his excessive pestering and getting up people's noses, so for the sake of peace and quiet I hope that you DON'T take ANY leaves out of his book. It's quite concerning that you see the disaster that he was as in some way 'inspirational'.

I can't say that this seems like a good move at all. You're a teenager, aren't you? Perhaps someone with more age and maturity, who doesn't seek to emulate bfesser would be better, or not another disaster in the making.

I don't mean to be negative, but you've given me reason to be.

[Edited on 18-12-2015 by User123]

With this attitude you do not even give him a chance!

zts, welcome to the crew!

Well yeah, I might have been slightly harsh, but my intentions are good.

This is one of the few forums on the entire internet where intelligent discourse is found free from excessive interference from egotistical power-wielding moderators. I would hate to see that change, as it did very much so during bfesser's reign of terror.

Everyone has a different viewpoint, and perhaps you totally disagree with me. You were perhaps involved in promoting bfesser, and maybe you WANT a more heavy handed approach to moderation. All I say is that the current laid back style (the same style I have seen for over a decade on here), where people are free to express themselves, whether they are right or wrong, is what I find desirable about this forum.

Anyway...

[Edited on 19-12-2015 by User123]
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 07:47


Quote: Originally posted by User123  
Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
Quote: Originally posted by User123  
Bfesser pissed off just about every older member of this forum with his excessive pestering and getting up people's noses, so for the sake of peace and quiet I hope that you DON'T take ANY leaves out of his book. It's quite concerning that you see the disaster that he was as in some way 'inspirational'.

I can't say that this seems like a good move at all. You're a teenager, aren't you? Perhaps someone with more age and maturity, who doesn't seek to emulate bfesser would be better, or not another disaster in the making.

I don't mean to be negative, but you've given me reason to be.

With this attitude you do not even give him a chance!

zts, welcome to the crew!

Well yeah, I might have been slightly harsh, but my intentions are good.

This is one of the few forums on the entire internet where intelligent discourse is found free from excessive interference from egotistical power-wielding moderators. I would hate to see that change, as it did very much so during bfesser's reign of terror.

Everyone has a different viewpoint, and perhaps you totally disagree me.
Well sure, I understand your sentiments completely. I think where we disagree is about whether the sort of threads that franklyn starts can be considered to be intelligent discourse.



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Pyro
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 07:49


They are generally not. but they are fun to read and it's better to stick to the devil you know.



all above information is intellectual property of Pyro. :D
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 07:54


I find some of his views a bit out there, but there is no physical limit to how many threads there can be. When people are forcibly silenced, or their views are censored from consumption, it breeds bad feeling, and provides a sort of infantile environment.

I have nothing against you, or your promotion -- frankly I have nothing against bfesser, as a person* -- but I'm just in favour of a light touch to moderation: as there has been historically on here.

*I believe he took amphetamine as an ADHD medication, which ENTIRELY explains his over the top editing, and making everything 'just so'!

[Edited on 19-12-2015 by User123]
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 09:17


Quote: Originally posted by User123  
I find some of his views a bit out there, but there is no physical limit to how many threads there can be. When people are forcibly silenced, or their views are censored from consumption, it breeds bad feeling, and provides a sort of infantile environment.

I have nothing against you, or your promotion -- frankly I have nothing against bfesser, as a person* -- but I'm just in favour of a light touch to moderation: as there has been historically on here.

*I believe he took amphetamine as an ADHD medication, which ENTIRELY explains his over the top editing, and making everything 'just so'!

[Edited on 19-12-2015 by User123]


bfesser's mistakes were:

1. a tendency to micromanage on his own. Setting decent standards only works if it's accepted by members and mostly self-policed.
2. making some really stupid statements, unbefitting to a moderator.

The 'light touch' you so love is partly responsible for the increasingly poor content of this site: endless duplicates, invasion of the 'kewls', half-truths, lies and other crap rules the roost here. It's also partly why some really good experimenters have left here.

'Letting it all hang out' is a path of least resistance and it leads to the garbage can. You only need to look at Teh Tinkersewers as a whole to understand that.

Well-moderated sites aren't a case of "excessive interference from egotistical power-wielding moderators" either. It's a case of setting good ground rules, rewarding good members and ticking off those who refuse to play by reasonable rules. That way you create good quality content that would be useful to those who find it.

Quote:
... or their views are censored from consumption, it breeds bad feeling, and provides a sort of infantile environment.


This is an infantile environment, because we let the kids run the asylum. If it was made clear political views were not allowed here, crapolas like franklyn and Rosco would take their bile elsewhere (where it belongs) and the rest of us wouldn't have to read their excrement.

Want to see a site that produces excellent content on Chemistry? Here's one:

http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/




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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 09:33


Quote: Originally posted by User123  

This is one of the few forums on the entire internet where intelligent discourse is found

Well, it was until franklyn showed up




Kept you waiting, huh?

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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 11:04


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Want to see a site that produces excellent content on Chemistry? Here's one:

http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/

What ?

There are other chemistry websites ?

This can't be true.




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KesterDraconis
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 11:28


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  

Quote:
... or their views are censored from consumption, it breeds bad feeling, and provides a sort of infantile environment.


This is an infantile environment, because we let the kids run the asylum. If it was made clear political views were not allowed here, crapolas like franklyn and Rosco would take their bile elsewhere (where it belongs) and the rest of us wouldn't have to read their excrement.

Want to see a site that produces excellent content on Chemistry? Here's one:

http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/


Its science"madness", what do you expect of it? This isn't the clean cut environment of a university or school, its like a meeting ground of crazy amateur science lovers from around the world. Naturally, some of us are a bit more nutty than others, and that must be controlled, but at least we all have this same interest. The art and science of amatuer experimentalism.

This forum allows us the freedom to discuss things many would be shocked by or just disapproving. Such as when I asked my chemistry teacher if he thought it would be easier to make silver nitrate than buy it (we were discussing the price and shipping). He told me that nitric acid was dangerous and I probably shouldn't mess with it.

Here, I don't have to worry about someone saying something like that, except in situations when it really is dangerous, and even then its more often than not just a kind word of warning.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

That said, I do appreciate the forum being as well kept as it can be, and generally in order without too much heavy handedness. I already see good signs form you ztz16, so I look forward to your future work.

As a word of advice, remember to be gentle and humble regarding your position. Too often, on other forums, I have seen moderators develop, shall I say "god complexes". (actually, one even told me, "On this forum I am basically god"). These forums fell apart within months (one was extremely long standing till a change in moderation took place).

Thanks for your devotion to the site to take up this task, and I wish you the best in doing so, it can be frustrating and stressful.

[Edited on 19-12-2015 by KesterDraconis]
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 12:36


All things in good measure.

Being elevated to Super Mod is a kind of imbalance.

So, with Super Mod Powers zts16 now needs to get drunk and then do some drunkmodding to regain some balance.

Merge the wrong threads, add stuff randomly to people's posts, just change a word or letter here or there, laugh like a madman at how funny it looks and then the next day completely forget what you did, or even that you did it.

Yes, best i never gain (or assume !) super mod powers ;)

<hr>
<table><tr><td><font class="mediumtxt"><strong><a href="./member.php?action=viewpro&amp;member=aga">aga</a></strong></font>
</td><td>Thread Moved</td></tr><tr><td>Drunken Moderator</td><td>19-12-2015 at 21:35</td></tr></table>





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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 12:42


Quote: Originally posted by Big Boss  
Quote: Originally posted by User123  

This is one of the few forums on the entire internet where intelligent discourse is found

Well, it was until franklyn showed up


He's been here hella longer than you have- Unless that's a sock puppet name you're posting under.

Can we drop the ad hominem now, everyone? At least insofar as franklyn, bfesser, etc. are concerned. Just slang me if you need to vent some spleen.




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 12:54


That Bert guy ! Can you believe him ? The Gall !

He's, he's .... aw crap, he's Great.

bfesser also did some very good things.
franklyn confines his rants to Whimsey, which is respectful.
Yttrium2 may one day do a chemical reaction that amazes everyone.
aga might share lizard alien technology.

As with all threads on this board, people can ignore them, so moaning about another user just because their rants are more popular than your own is just whining.

Against a background of 'Nike Shoes' even blogfast25's QM/OC thread got moaned at because Scrolling Down was required to go past it on a list.

(c'mon zts - Detritus your own thread !)




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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 13:54


Bert: bfesser took it upon himself to delete vast swathes of posts going back years; to edit other people's work according to his whim (damaging much in the process; including breaking long-standing links to images); and finally deleting huge amounts of material (including the entirety of his topical compendium -- which was later recovered, thanks to someone's personal back-up) before leaving completely.

And you say that no one should attack him for that?! That I'm somehow being unfair to the chap! An uncalled for ad-hominem? Really.

Sorry mate, but you're wrong. He was a complete nuisance from start to finish.

Some of us use this forum as a real-world resource of practical experimental chemistry, and search and reference it in our own work extensively. The damage wrought by bfesser is a matter of historical fact. It is not simply a personal dislike of the fellow that I express, it is a dislike for his presumptiousness that it is his privilege to abuse his position to recast the forum in his own image, irreparably damaging many useful resources for ever more.

It seems clear to me that you are either completely, or in part unaware of this fact. You seem to think that this is nothing more than 'flaming'. It is not. it is a matter of genuine concern that a new moderator expresses his desire to emulate bfesser's practice of editing and 'pruning' what they consider to be 'irrelevent' information from threads -- especially so since bfesser set a precedent of editing HISTORICAL threads according to his whim. It is also concerning that there are calls from younger members to silence these concerned voices; interpreting them simply in a personal way -- an attack on their online friend, holding no merit aside from the fact that we 'need' to be silenced. It is a childish attitude and a telling one: that the dynamics of the forum have shifted strongly to the facile and immature; seeking no debate, only shallow approval for ANY action that they perceive to favour their 'friend'. Calls for open and frank discussion to be closed or sent to detritus are hallmarks of immature minds, unaccustomed to constructive dialogue.

I invite you to peruse some of bfesser's edits of threads going back YEARS before he was made a moderator. The damage that he wrought is REAL.

Perhaps you do not see this forum in the same way as I -- as a resource of practical experimental information -- and instead view it as a social club for chemistry related chatter, as the likes of aga and some of the younger members clearly do. It would certainly explain your incongruity to ANY reaction to giving such power to someone of so little age, knowledge and experience, and especially someone who expresses admiration for the thoughtless 'pruning' done by a former moderator, who was so decisive not simply because of his personality, but because of his actions.

If these genuine concerns are continued to be construed as nothing but personal attacks, trolling, or flaming, then perhaps the dynamic of the forum has already changed irreparably, and the more mature members -- of which there were once a majority -- have simply abandoned it to its fate.

[Edited on 20-12-2015 by User123]
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 14:04


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  


Can we drop the ad hominem now, everyone? At least insofar as franklyn, bfesser, etc. are concerned. Just slang me if you need to vent some spleen.


Yeah, let's not insult the chickenhawks like franklyn and Bovine, while they insult an entire religion and more.

So franklyn's part of the furniture, so what?

You want any attacks on these c*nts to stop, you'll have to prize them from my dead cold fingers.

And why would I slang you, ferfucksake?

Entire threads here are nothing but stench-trenches, Bert: it's a bit late in the day to start showing concern, you know?

Now you've appointed a teenager for 'super moderator'. Well, good luck with that too!

[Edited on 19-12-2015 by blogfast25]




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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 14:18


zts16, you might have to poetically close your own thread due to flaming. Such is SM these days.



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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 14:24


Quote: Originally posted by User123  
He was a complete nuisance from start to finish.

You must have been here longer than i (~2 years).

Please revert to your original username so noobs like me could know you're a longer-timer.

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Now you've appointed a teenager for 'super moderator'. Well, good luck with that too!

The age of zts16 is irrelevant.

zts16 seems to have some Common Sense which is in scarce supply these days, so will probably work out pretty well as a moderator.

Time will tell.

[Edited on 19-12-2015 by aga]




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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 14:27


And here's another thing, Bert, since as you want me to vent spleen.

You seem to have no idea how deep discontent runs here among many.

When bfesser over-stepped the mark several times there was a mutiny in the making via U2U. I was contacted about it and agreed to take part if need be. He resigned before we had to do anything.

But this is the ONLY forum I know where so many are unhappy with the rot that has set in many moons ago, that they're willing to do something like that.

Don't care? Ok, whatever...




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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 14:30


<hr>
<table><tr><td><font class="mediumtxt"><strong><a href="./member.php?action=viewpro&amp;member=aga">aga</a></strong></font>
</td><td>Thread Moved to Syria</td></tr><tr><td>Drunken Moderator</td><td>19-12-2015 at 23:31</td></tr></table><hr>

What rot ?

Has that co-incidentally started after i arrived ? ;)

[Edited on 19-12-2015 by aga]

[Edited on 19-12-2015 by aga]




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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 19:38


What is the point in you, aga?
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 20:04


Well, I wasn't expecting this to get derailed.

Firstly, thanks zts for taking this on. A well-moderated board is a good thing and I appreciate the efforts of all who have contributed to this board's undoubted worth. I am confident you will do a good job.

On Bfesser -- for those of us who arrived after he relinquished his role, I appreciate your not giving details. It's poor form to defame someone in their absence and the discussion adds nothing to the present running of the site. If there is something that you believe zts16 should know then you should U2U him. If there is history that you feel needs discussion, open a thread that I can ignore.

@Blogfast, while I am inclined to agree with some of what you say on the posting styles of some, surely there is a better way of addressing this -- ie, not in the thread that welcomes zts into his new role.
chemistrystackexchange looks to much like yahoo answers for my liking. I doubt it will take the place of this site for me. But thanks for the link anyway.

@user123, interesting that you should hold such strong views but choose a new anonymous persona to present them. I am going to give your rants the weight I believe they deserve: none.

@aga, I appreciate your humour as usual. But I enjoy your chemistry explorations even more. Anything coming from shedworld soon?


Merry Christmas to all. Only five sleeps. (That is, if my kids let me sleep!)




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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 20:04


Congratulations, zts. Sorry about the mess.
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[*] posted on 19-12-2015 at 20:24


Thanks to all of those who have been supportive.

Despite the suggestions to close this thread, I don't think it's entirely bad to get all of this discussion out in the open. Though if it continues to carry on as it has been for too much longer I will likely lock it down.




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