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Author: Subject: Copper Oxybromide
careysub
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[*] posted on 16-6-2016 at 22:12


"Het probleem is niet het spulleke, maar het knulleke"

Dutch and English are close enough* that I, who have never studied any Germanic language but English, could read it <i>except</i> for the two nouns "spulleke" and "knulleke".

So I plugged the phrase into Google Translate (gosh, I love automatic translation software) and Google Translate did not know what they were either!
What do they mean exactly, and any theories what Translate does not recognize them?

*It is possible to write at least short paragraphs in West Frisian that are actually comprehensible as correct English.
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DraconicAcid
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[*] posted on 17-6-2016 at 07:43


I've studied (tried to learn) Dutch, Norwegian, and German (in addition to English), and I could read exactly the same amount.....

[Edited on 17-6-2016 by DraconicAcid]




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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 17-6-2016 at 08:31


Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
"Het probleem is niet het spulleke, maar het knulleke"

Dutch and English are close enough* that I, who have never studied any Germanic language but English, could read it <i>except</i> for the two nouns "spulleke" and "knulleke".

So I plugged the phrase into Google Translate (gosh, I love automatic translation software) and Google Translate did not know what they were either!
What do they mean exactly, and any theories what Translate does not recognize them?

*It is possible to write at least short paragraphs in West Frisian that are actually comprehensible as correct English.

1°) The main problem with translators is that they take the word as from a word-book (dictionary) (so idioms are often traduced litterally) but translators doesn't take into account the common language and its specificity (Dutch has very wide pronounciation change over a few kilometers distance and there are a lot of dialects that change the writing to stick to the prononciation...here in Belgium that is a very little country in the world you often see flamish/dutch speaking people from different big cities that don't understand each other while the cities are only 50 km away).

I think that this tendency is reduced by the publication of books, the printing of newspapers and closer in the time by the normalisation and common use of the television...so flemish/dutch language becomes an average called "beschaavde Nederlands" (educated/civilised Dutch).

Flemish/Dutch is only written accademically recently (one, two or maybe 3 centuries ago) (thus quite young) vs older languages with wider writing past (millenium(s)) like English, French, Italian, Spanish, German, Greek...thus most latin, greek and german languages from Europa but Dutch...

Also during the last centuries, the languages in vogue for the culture (science, food, ...) where German, English and French...and that was not helping Dutch to get widespread use since the litterate people where using mostly French, English and German.

2°) Also there is the same kind of habit from Flemish/Dutch people to add "reducer" syllabs (diminutive) at the end of the words...maybe from the Spanish influence during invasion/colonisation...
Example: In Spanish they often use -ito, -ita, -illo, -illa, -uelo, -uela, -cito, -cita, -ecito, -ecita
(or pejorative: -ucho, -ucha); (or regionally: -iño, -iña , -eto)

Carlos -> Carlito (little/tiny Charles)
Juana -> Juanita (little/tiny Jeane)
casa (house ) -> casita (little house)
pequeño (small) -> pequeñito (very small)
despacio (slowly) -> despacito (very slowly)
andando (walking) -> andandito (walking with very little steps)
callado(quiet) -> calladito (very quiet)
Un perro (a dog) -> un perrillo,(a little dog or a puppy)
Una plaza (a place, a square) -> una plazuela (a little square)
Una casa -> una casucha (a slum)
Abuela (grand-mother) -> abuelita (granny)
Mamá (mother) -> mamaíta (my little mother)
Un gato (a cat) -> un gatito (a kitty)
el papel (the paper) -> papelito (the little paper)
nube (cloud) -> nubecita(little cloud)
balón (baloon) -> baloncito (little baloon)
flor (flower) -> florecita (little flower)
puerta (door) -> puertecita (little door)

Same happens in Flemish/Dutch (inherited from Spanish?)
usually common Dutch use -je and less often -tje, -mpje, -pje of -etje.
huis (house) -> huisje (little house)
Bart (Bob) -> Bartje (Bobby)

But also more Flamish/Brusselaar using a more ancient form -ke, -eke (and less frequently -kje, -ske, -ie)
roll boll (roll balling) --> rolleke bolleke
bal (ball) --> balleke (tiny ball)

just like in our case...

het spul = the mather, the material, the object
het spulleke = the tiny mather (insignifiant/not to take into account)

het knul = the guy, the fellow, the boy
het knulleke = the little/tiny guy


[Edited on 17-6-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 17-6-2016 at 08:46


Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
I've studied (tried to learn) Dutch, Norwegian, and German (in addition to English), and I could read exactly the same amount.....

[Edited on 17-6-2016 by DraconicAcid]

We are getting seriously out of topic here :D;):P
I know Dutch/Flemisch/French/Latin/English and a little Italian, Spanish and German.

There are similitudes between the latin-greek languages (Spanish, French, Italian, ...) and between the german languages (German, English, Dutch, ...) from ancient source but there are also interconnection from multicultural brew and exchanges (invasions, commerce, science) and also specific lives of the languages on their own...to get a clear view ones has to look at the problem through a multiple prism of various languages taking into account phonetic changes, truncatures, history, other way of writing...
Just like family names that have changed a lot during the last centuries, imagine what can happen in mileniums...

For example
LOUIS name of the french Kings comes from LOVIS (in latin U is writen V) and it is related to CLOVIS (the name of the emperor ancestor of the monarchy) but it has lost a C.




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[*] posted on 17-6-2016 at 10:44


de puta madre. Que explicacíon !
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 17-6-2016 at 12:16


Off-topic or not... Is a ''knul'' genderless in Flemish? I would say ''de knul'', not ''het knul''. Of course making the diminutive out of it will make it genderless, but a ''knul'' usually refers to a boy and is therefore ''de''.
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[*] posted on 17-6-2016 at 13:07


Off-topic or not... Is a ''knul'' genderless in Flemish? I would say ''de knul'', not ''het knul''. Of course making the diminutive out of it will make it genderless, but a ''knul'' usually refers to a boy and is therefore ''de''.
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[*] posted on 18-6-2016 at 07:34


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Off-topic or not... Is a ''knul'' genderless in Flemish? I would say ''de knul'', not ''het knul''. Of course making the diminutive out of it will make it genderless, but a ''knul'' usually refers to a boy and is therefore ''de''.

Right!
Male gender even if the subject of the idiom may be a girl... sexissism again :(
--> de knul, de knul, de knul :D;):P
(now written in my brain for a long time)

My mistake, a long time with no practice of Dutch and while typing in English and thinking in French with a side switch to Spanish...and all those "the" from English looking a bit like "het"...it should have happened...sorry for the brain-shortcut.





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[*] posted on 18-6-2016 at 07:41


Quote: Originally posted by Rsambo  
de puta madre. Que explicacíon !

Que coño! :P;):P:D
Mi madre no tiene nada que ver con toda esta historia. :P:P:P

Just kidding!

[Edited on 18-6-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 18-6-2016 at 10:21


:D
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chemrox
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[*] posted on 6-9-2016 at 16:48


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
My words are hard to translate. I think PHILOU may be able to understand them and smile ;)

What I meant with my last sentence is that making oxybromide (and also oxychloride) from CuO and the corresponding acid is not possible in those acidic solutions.

If you use excess acid, then all CuO dissolves to form the halide and the strongly colored tetrahalogen complex of copper (which is deep yellow/brown for chloride and nice purple/red/brown for bromide). If you use excess CuO, then you get a solution of the copper halide and some CuO remains undissolved.
Could you separate the oxide from the mix by using string mineral acid? HCl? May seem like a stupid question but when you get to it..?
Making oxyhalide can be done by preparing a solution of the copper halide and then carefully adding (under constant strong stirring) hydroxide. This will give you a compound of ill-defined composition, with halide ions and hydroxide ions mixed in the compound. Heating this stuff drives off water and leaves behind a mixed halide/oxide.
Another option is to prepare wet CuCl or CuBr. These are white solids and can be prepared from HCl/HBr, copper oxide and a sulfite or metabisulfite. The wet solid must be rinsed with water and then the humid compound must be put aside in contact with air. It will oxidize quickly and lose its white color. When it is dry, you need to grind very well and allow to stand in contact with air for another few days. Finally you end up with a dry, non-hygroscopic powder. The mixed oxide/chloride is green (not blue at all), I expect the mixed oxide/bromide to be green as well, probably a somewhat darker shade, green like olives. But this is my educated guess, I have no personal experience with that. If you use a sulfite/metabisulfite, use the potassium salt, such as K2S2O5. If you use the sodium salt, then the resulting copper oxide/halide also has some sodium ions in it, which spoils the blue color of the flame.


I added a post. No idea where my words went.. into the ether? I wanted to ask woelen if the oxide could be removed (or converted) by adding HCl?

[Edited on 7-9-2016 by chemrox]




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