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Tin man
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[*] posted on 12-9-2016 at 19:28
Benzvalene derivatives


I was rabit holing on Wikipedia when I stumbled upon a very interesting compound of the name benzvalene. It is an explosive tricyclic isomer of benzene with some serious Gibbs free energy. It seems very reactive, so I'm not very optimistic about adding nitro groups or other explophores. But suposedly it forms a polymer, though I am unsure of the synthesis of the this polymer. I was also wondering about other strained hydrocarbons. But what do you guys think? Would these compounds have good properties as primary explosives? And also, could they be acessable to the amateur chemist?
Thank you for reading!




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Metacelsus
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[*] posted on 12-9-2016 at 19:39


Quote: Originally posted by Tin man  
Would these compounds have good properties as primary explosives?

No, they wouldn't be storage-stable. Ordinary benzvalene will spontaneously convert to benzene. Try to put anything more energetic on there, and it will probably just explode upon isolation.
Quote: Originally posted by Tin man  

And also, could they be accessible to the amateur chemist?

No. Methyllithium isn't exactly amateur-friendly.




As below, so above.
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Tin man
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[*] posted on 12-9-2016 at 20:11


Yeah, I guess I didn't think much befor posting this. Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't methyl lithium be made simply by reacting methyl chloride dissolved in butane with lithium and ( under an inert atmosphere)
filtration to remove the lithium chloride?
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[*] posted on 13-9-2016 at 05:51


Even if you could make methyl lithium, do note that the reaction conditions specify dimethyl ether at -45ÂșC. Good luck.



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XeonTheMGPony
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[*] posted on 13-9-2016 at 06:00


refrigeration terms -45 is a snap, and here in Canada in the prairies an average winter (Well warm actually, 2013 it was -61c mars was warmer that year!)

2 good fridge compressors, first stage R-134a or R-152a (Air duster cans) then second stage R-507

Can be don single stage doing 507 but you'll need a bigger compressor and will run higher Hp motor

[Edited on 13-9-2016 by XeonTheMGPony]
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[*] posted on 13-9-2016 at 06:51


Dry ic allows -70 C and dimethyl ether is not an uncommon aerosol propellant. I think it would be neat. You might find cyclopentadiene the harder to come by of the necessary reagents.

Looking quickly, benzvalene forms an epoxide, but it is apparently very delicate as one imagines.
https://books.google.com/books?id=2Wkv01DCVb4C&pg=PA5&am...
Oxidation Reactions of Benzvalene: Ozonolysis, cis-Hydroxylation, Epoxidation, and Singlet Oxygen Addition
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.198004581/

And also, could they be acessable to the amateur chemist? Yes.
That is if cyclopentadiene is avaiolable. Anyway as anything but a fun or scientific project it is doomed. With regard to storage you can probably hydrogenate it and store some trace of your effors.




F. de Lalande and M. Prud'homme showed that a mixture of boric oxide and sodium chloride is decomposed in a stream of dry air or oxygen at a red heat with the evolution of chlorine.
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Tin man
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[*] posted on 13-9-2016 at 07:20


I didn't have my much hope for benzvalene as any sort of practical explosive. But what about other strained hydrocarbons? Preferably easier to synthesis than Cubans.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 14-9-2016 at 02:16


Some fuel for the brain storming...I think prismane is the same as benzvalene...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=64176#pid426630
Cubane (C8H8) - 8-NC (Octanitrocubane)
Dodecane (C20H20) - 20-ND (dodecanitrododecane - pernitrododecane)
Pagodane (C20H20) - 20-NP (dodecanitropagodane - pernitropagodane)
Prismane (C6H6) - 6-NP (hexanitroprismane - pernitroprismane





PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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