the difficulty is determining what percentage of the dark
brown impurities are from remaining tablet binders versus from nitration, all I know is that the amount of impurities filtered out varies per batch of
acetaminophen/nitration, usually though it represents only a minor fraction compared to the iso picramic acid obtained.
I did not aim for the tetranitro compound, but was hoping that possible
formation of the primary aryl nitramine at very low temperatures to avoid decomposition would lead to intramoleclar rearrangement of the nitramine to
produce either the trinitro diazo or lead to hydrolysis of the 3 nitro group to produce DDNR, both described and existing compounds. I recognize these
routes are not the most hypothetically likely to succeed, though unlike the described non-OTC routes from literature to trinitroacetaminophen and
DDNR, I'm simply reasoning from an simplicity and OTC standpoint for which either isopicramic acid or DNAc as a possible reaonably storage stable 1 or
2 step precursor to both p-DDNP and DDNR is worth investigating using small scale experiments. Another, but more complicated, OTC route would involve
O-protection of acetaminophenol by reaction with benzylchloride as described by Meldola (which is OTC produced from benzylalcohol, perfume ingredient
found online and concentrated HCl, (orgsynth)) and nitration using only NA.




Maybe the addition of the sulfuric, high
temperatures or the presence of metallic copper or it salts seems to somehow affect crystal formation to what it seems, sort of rounded shapes.
and it is reported that way sometimes and has been reported that NO alone can work or NO2 so it is ambiguous. It may be that exposure
to the air oxidizes the NO to NO2 which then does the deed. 
The synthesis is listed in:
). Results most likely in either picric acid or stypnic acid, though worth a shot
maybe. Anyway, more ideas than time than usual...

Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |
.....ummmm, whatever works is good. 
Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone ![]() |
Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |
Pretty cool! 
I never
got around to finding a proper synthesis protocol for dinitrosalicylic acid, so thanks for the references. Also wondered how much easier the dinitro
salicylic acid would reduce one nitro group, as opposed to trinitrophenol. Every TNP reduction scheme, other than with either commercial or homemade
hydrogensulfide, seems to result in an mess from which only small amounts of picramic acid can be isolated. But indeed, this may be worth a try, I
read the first reference you provided, and it indeed seems more selective than picric acid. There can be a big difference though between umol
quantities as quantitative test and a high yield synthesis. Same goes for ascorbic acid and picric acid, which seems to form some form of inseparable
complex with either picric acid or picramic, I read an article on this, but can't find it again, sorry. 
Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |




Can you take a look at your
bottle of 70% HNO3 btw? Is it w/w or v/v? Did you weigh the HNO3 or used ml? If it is v/v, it would explain why all DNAc precipitated out and no
mononitro may be present at all. Should have asked in advance, just .don't know what is more standard commercially, since I usually distil it myself
and add water to a density of 1.42, which translates to 70% w/wQuote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |
).
(I like the coherence of chemistry). Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |
You are right about the 5,2-amino 4,6-dinitrophenol, the 5 amino group won't oxidize
or form the diazo, same as for picramide probably. The resutling compound, which might be called 2 -diazo 5-amino, 4-6 dinitrophenol might still be
interesting if it exist and might form nitrate salts or perchlorate salts when diazotized in the corresponding acids using nitrite or even complex
with transition metal salts containing nitrates or perchlorates, although this isn't reported for trinitroaniline itself, so maybe that won't happen.
What solvent and by what method did you purify the
paracetamol? 



Quote: Originally posted by greenlight ![]() |



Crystal breakage, static, low density etc. Believe me, I've seen them for p-DDNP. It happens for very dilute solutions
of the isopicramic chloride/sulfate at very low temperatures. When recrystallized from boiling dH2O/1% HCl, pDDNP formed almost hair like crystals,
very thin,long and flexible, almost like wool. Recrystallization from acetone is not necessary, when boiled too long, it can even decompose part of
the product and lead to less purity. On the other hand, residual sulfuric acid in the product from copper/SA is adds an unknown to long term
stability. It's interesting though, one of the culprits of DDNP has been obtaining a product with high bulk density. Both times the copper method gave
a bulk density that was incredibly high, first time I thought my yield was terribly low and contemplated to throw the batch away without weighing,
glad I did.
Tomorrow I'll see if I can reproduce it and trow in some 40x
manification pictures.
.

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine ![]() |
Ah yes... DNSal synthesis



)
really seems a very potent initiator, not only was 10 mg was enough to initate RDX, the DDNR itself seems very stable to heat and moisture (for a
diazo compound anyway), although acidity and metal compatibility may still be an issue. For that matter, it may also be nice to see properties of some
salts of DDNR.

Another possibility is that compound 4 may have originated from a reduction by the solvent used, this wouldn't happen
this way though in a totally inert organic solvent.




2-nitro-4-diazophenol, might also form nitrate or perchlorate
salts
).
Benzoxazolone seemed interesting, one of the things I would still like to do is
the NA/SA mediated nitration of 6-chlorobenzoxazolone, whether nitration would stop at 5-nitro-6-chloro, or perhaps a second nitro group may be
introduced due to the less deactivating chloro group. Kind of worried this may also produce some dioxin like structures though.Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |
Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |
There is indeed
something funny about the melting points mentioned in the various nitration schemes of benzoxazolone in literature. Maybe using high temperature 65%
nitric, partial hydrolysis happens during the reaction, producing more of the 5-isomer, leading to melting point depression, or maybe has to do with
the reasonance of the oxazolone group and acidity during reaction otherwise. I do know that the melting point of 6-nitrobenzoxazolone from commercial
providers is given as 244-249 C, and 6-aminobenzoxazolone as 202 C, so these are more trustworthy probably. 
Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |

Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes ![]() |
with a mp of 196°C. 
This is based on 1 rushed experiment, it would
need further examination, but I'll add it here since I don't store these things on my computer.
Since it is water soluble, even after extraction, it is
not p-DDNP iself, since the diazonium sulfate salt dissociates very quickly upon dilution. It still contains a diazonium group, but since it does not
produce a precipitate with KNO3, it likely also isn;t DDNR, since the K-salt is reported to be very insoluble (DDNR istelf as well). One of the
options is that a 1,2 quinone 3,6 dinitro 4-diazo is formed due to hydrolysis of the 2-nitro of isopicramic acid, though I'm not sure this would
explain the reactivity towards metals. Another option is the 2,3,6 trinitro 4-diazo phenol descirbed before, though this would be strange considering
the described deactivation of the amine group in 97% SA. Other IMO, less likely options would be some sulfonic acid replacement of the nitro, or more
likely maybe some azoxy compound from coupling reactions. Any guesses, anyone? 