Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Inner electrons *might* interact

sparkgap - 2-8-2008 at 09:41

I wish to share to the rest of you this interesting piece of news http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/34815/title/Chem_... :
Quote:

In an upcoming Physical Review Letters, Stanimir Bonev of Dalhousie University in Halifax, Canada and his collaborators describe how they used a supercomputer to calculate the behavior of lithium at pressures above 1.5 million atmospheres and temperatures as high as 3,000 kelvins (about 2,700° Celsius).


Although, since this is all a simulation, I expect the reality to be *slightly* more complicated. What are your thoughts?

sparky (~_~)

-jeffB - 4-8-2008 at 18:00

If lithium can bond with its inner electrons, forming a new class of compounds, would the resulting ion be "neo-lithic"?

JohnWW - 4-8-2008 at 21:25

If lithium could bond using its 1s electrons, then helium, in which the same electrons are less tightly held due to its lesser nuclear charge, should be able to similarly bond using them. However, as far as I know, this has not been observed in stable isolatable compounds, although the cation HeH+, isoelectronic with the H2 molecule, has been detected by mass-spectrometry as a transient product of high-velocity atomic collisions in the gas phase between He and protons. HeF+, isoelectronic with HF, should be similarly detectable as such a transient species. The isoelectronic dipositive cations with Li+ in place of He should be even more difficult to form and less stable. Another possibility is that BH3 or BF3 might just be able to accept the electron pair from He, similarly to that of the H- anion, to form BH3He isoelectronic with BH4-, or BF3He isolelectronic with BF3H-. Alternatively, a BH4- anion with one of the H atoms as tritium (H-3), with a half-life of about 12 years, just might slowly convert to BH3He due to decay of the tritium.

[Edited on 5-8-08 by JohnWW]

-jeffB - 5-8-2008 at 08:30

Quote:
Originally posted by JohnWW
Another possibility is that BH3 or BF3 might just be able to accept the electron pair from He, similarly to that of the H- anion, to form BH3He isoelectronic with BH4-, or BF3He isolelectronic with BF3H-. Alternatively, a BH4- anion with one of the H atoms as tritium (H-3), with a half-life of about 12 years, just might slowly convert to BH3He due to decay of the tritium.


You mean set up a BTH3- anion, then let the T transmute into He in-place? It seems to me that the recoil from ejecting a 6keV electron would be a bit disruptive.

Another Nobel prize winner here

franklyn - 5-8-2008 at 08:53

Quote _
Fully insulated bath uses cooling mixtures to attain temperatures as low as -1000°F (-730°C) !
I kid you not > http://www.dmscientific.com/koehler_k22753.html

I wonder what that is in Kelvin, that cooling mixture must be pure Unobtanium
http://m3.shatterpoint.org/index.php/Unobtainium

speaking of which
http://www.gigawidget.com/unobtainium.index.html

It is understood that if you crush matter enough it consolidates into neutronium.
Intermediate metastable products are unknown and not predicted. Unobtainably
high pressure chemistry can only exist under those conditions, so whats the point?

.

tumadre - 5-8-2008 at 12:15

Quote:
Originally posted by -jeffB
If lithium can bond with its inner electrons, forming a new class of compounds, would the resulting ion be "neo-lithic"?


considering "the enormous pressure squeezed the lithium to as little as two-thirds of the volume..."

Bonding is not the first thing that comes to mind.

I'd say the outer shell simply does not have the strength to hold the atoms apart and the inner shell is helping.

YT2095 - 6-8-2008 at 01:15

Quote:
Originally posted by franklyn
Quote _
Fully insulated bath uses cooling mixtures to attain temperatures as low as -1000°F (-730°C) !
I kid you not > http://www.dmscientific.com/koehler_k22753.html


Cool (no, Really!), and as far as I know Bose-Einstein condensate isn`t a listed item yet :P

Another look at a recurring idea

franklyn - 28-2-2014 at 23:28

I have always maintained that physics is most interesting at the extremes.
Seems to be so with chemistry also.

www.science20.com/news_articles/softly_impossible_table_salt...

If the compounds produced are stable at STP then you may just have something.

Related posts
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1970&page...
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1970&page...

.

elementcollector1 - 28-2-2014 at 23:31

-730 degrees C?!
I thought 0 K was the minimum, and that's at -273.15 degrees C!

HeYBrO - 26-10-2014 at 22:18

I thought this might fit here; "new type of chemical bond"

j_sum1 - 26-10-2014 at 22:33

Very similar to this:
http://www.periodicvideos.com/videos/feature_hydrogen41.htm

smaerd - 27-10-2014 at 13:25

Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
-730 degrees C?!
I thought 0 K was the minimum, and that's at -273.15 degrees C!
.

My room is -638*C relative to molten aluminum!

edit - also pretty sure that's a typo. Read a little further down the website (http://www.dmscientific.com/koehler_k22753.html)
Quote:
Temperature Range: +100°F to -1000°F (+37.8°C to -73.30°C)


-73.30*C is ~-100F, so yea someone in marketing missed some decimal points haha.

[Edited on 27-10-2014 by smaerd]